Author Topic: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?  (Read 6189 times)

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Offline Hippanda

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 12:04:11 PM »
Never "mighty".  

They were over-hyped and like most hyped-up fads, eventually find their appropriate level.



Maybe they'll make a comeback some day
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:36:27 PM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 12:30:17 PM »
Clark Smith had a set of Pagoda, 69, 69, 68, 68 for sale for $2550 for about a month now.  I just looked it up and it is sold.  So $2700 for a set of PF69 is a decent price.


Offline Birdman

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 01:53:13 PM »
Complete set of PF69 Ultra Cameo sells for $2716.00
Ouch!!!!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-China-S20G-PAGODA-TEMPLES-Silver-Coin-Set-of-4-NGC-PF69-DCAM-/281253885046?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Mw8jdtkAzqE4x%252F8z7aGnZvwqSRc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


They were over-hyped and like most hyped-up fads, eventually find their appropriate level.


1984 20 g silver ancient pagoda temple 4 coin set NCS NGC PF 69 UC
Ebay/PayPal price: $31,000
check/money order price: $28,500
cash price: $26,000
Mintage 260, many melted.

Wow, I hadn't followed the prices of those pieces much, but I now see that it is a big change. 

I included a blurb from a selling listing of August of 2011, so some of our newer readers might have a historical reference of asking price at the peak of promotion.  That is the same type of coin, right?  I may be confusing the different pagodas, as they are not my specialty. 

This is an important cautionary tale for investing in general.  Always be suspicious if someone is vigorously promoting something.  Whether it is an obscure coin, or a pump-and-dump scheme for thinly traded stocks, it is important to have your own clearly thought out reasons for purchasing something.

Offline bonke

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM »
The 1984 silver pagoda medals were actively discussed (and promoted) in this coin forum.  These discussions helped create a US marketplace in which the prices sky-rocketed.  At the time, it was exciting to imagine I could own some 1oz silver medals with such amazing value.  Still, it was frightening since these medals seemed to be passing quickly from one investor to another at higher and higher prices.  And, then, the party was over.  Prices plummeted.  For a while, it seemed the sets may stabilize at $4500-$6000.  Now, I doubt if they will stabilize (find a bottom) above $2000.  And this appears to be true of all of the rest of the modern Chinese gold, silver, platinum coins and medals.

Remember when the collapse began.  Forum members would assure us it was a Spring slowdown, and then a Summer slowdown, and then a . . . slowdown.   Whatever it was, it has continued for several years without a real bounce to the upside.

I got caught up in the fever.  Hopefully, I have learned something.  Now, I search for what I like and carefully try to decide whether the price is appropriate.

Mark Bonke

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2014, 09:30:43 PM »
Don't underestimate the 84 Silver pagodas.   The low mintage cannot be changed.  As the MCC market matures the low mintage will get the higher price.   How many early year silver MCC w/ that low of mintage?  I think the price collapse was due to the emotional debate about them on this forum and the manipulated bullion price drop.   Again the entire argument boiled down to this....."mislabel".  Some silver plate pagodas were labeled as real silver.   NGC has mislabeled many MCC.   NGC has read the debate on this forum and they have no clue why forum members became so emotional.  Strange how it all played out.   When the truth came out it was just another mislabel problem so why the big whoopee do?  Opinions on this forum do affect prices.  High prices for the 84 silver pagodas will return..........

Offline Pandora

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 12:51:30 PM »
Sometimes I wonder which medal gets the crown - Pagaoda, Fish or God of Wealth...

God of Wealth and War - very appropriate name. There was war for these coins and lot of wealth lost!

Offline comeaux

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 01:17:35 PM »
Forum members would assure us it was a Spring slowdown, and then a Summer slowdown

 :laugh:

Yea I remember that "line" back then and remember challenging it as well ... I NEVER subscribed to the "seasonal" influences on coin prices. 

Offline bonke

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 01:34:42 PM »
The silver 1989 Zhao Gongming / God of War and Wealth should take the prize.  With a mintage of 2430, these silver medals found a special place in our (members of the coin forum) hearts.  We analyzed their designs, looking for varieties, and argued whether one of the three varieties was more or less common than the other two varieties.  Along the way, we spent a lot of money on them.  I do not know who had the hoard of these medals and I do not know how we were all convinced to purchase them.  I do know that I own a Clear Claw Variety and a Clouded Claw Variety in my collection.  Oh, I have been gullible.  I hope I have learned something along the way.  Mark Bonke  [PS I also have two 1984 silver pagoda sets and three 1984 silver goldfish sets.  So, I have participated in all of the fads of the past few years.]

Offline comeaux

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 05:12:12 PM »
The silver 1989 Zhao Gongming / God of War and Wealth should take the prize.  With a mintage of 2430, these silver medals found a special place in our (members of the coin forum) hearts.  We analyzed their designs, looking for varieties, and argued whether one of the three varieties was more or less common than the other two varieties.  Along the way, we spent a lot of money on them.  I do not know who had the hoard of these medals and I do not know how we were all convinced to purchase them.  I do know that I own a Clear Claw Variety and a Clouded Claw Variety in my collection.  Oh, I have been gullible.  I hope I have learned something along the way.  Mark Bonke  [PS I also have two 1984 silver pagoda sets and three 1984 silver goldfish sets.  So, I have participated in all of the fads of the past few years.]

Mark you are not the only one who has been gullible, I think we all have been gullible to varying degrees but also you are looking at a very short time frame. Nobody can be certain but I am very optimistic that these coins will provide you a good return 10 years from now although I’m not sure if you purchased to flip or hold for a longer term.

The majority of coins that I have purchased over the years have been gold/silver pandas with a few other random MCC along the way. I never bought the goldfish, pagodas or god of war medals because I was not interested in them but it was not because I thought they were bad investments. If you like the designs and historical significance of these medals then you should not feel bad about buying them because they are something you enjoy and if you choose to sell will more than likely get your money back plus some.

I don’t have any regrets for any of the coins and other collectibles I’ve purchased but I sure have made a lot of bone-headed moves in the stock market several years ago that I wish I could take back now. Those were my most gullible (and costly) decisions … looking back now I wish I would have put more of that money into bullion/numismatics.

Anyway … you have not been anymore gullible than many of us here so you’re not alone my friend !  :thumbup:

Offline cabaretvolt

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 07:32:36 PM »
I realize this is a mcc forum but if you look at palau tiffany coins mintage 1000
Which are extremely eye appealing and popular those price have dropped some
40 to 50 percent likewise

Forest and trees pops to mind... I would never lump pagodas with god of wealth nor
Longevity

Pagodas have their very own twisting story and a poor candidate for true barometer
And as fever highlighted... The recent 68 longevit brought over 1k at auction
I believe 69 was consistetently achieving 2k in 2012

So i contend at the very least those stored value at a better rate than spot silver fell
And holders if they choose can swap out of it and reload bigger in this buyers market
Longevity is too iconic imo... Shes a tour de force
"Okay, You people sit tight, hold the fort and keep the home fires burning. And if we're not back by dawn... call the president" - Burton

Offline Silverfever

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2014, 07:56:11 PM »
Well said Cabaretvolt. Anyone here want to get rid of their Four Blessings Medals in PF 69s?
I'm still trying to complete a set.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2014, 09:28:35 PM »
When bullion breaks out we will all look like Einsteins.   Just gotta survive the roller coaster ride.....

Offline Clark Smith

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Re: Silver Chinese Pagoda Medals. How the once mighty have fallen?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2014, 09:01:47 PM »
We just listed another set for sale of the 1984 silver pagodas.    NGC 69 69 68 68.   
All nice coins.