Author Topic: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews  (Read 3312 times)

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Offline SANDAC

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Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« on: November 13, 2013, 06:50:15 PM »
There are three articles of particular interests in this month's NGC eNews:

* NGC just opened a submission center in Shanghai.  An education seminar will be held in Nov 15 and our Peter Anthony is among the distinguished speakers.
http://www.ngccoin.com//news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=2371

* Peter Anthony's article on the 2014 Panda release.
http://www.ngccoin.com//news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=2398

*  High quality counterfeit of 1912 Sun Yat-sen silver dollar.
http://www.ngccoin.com//news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=2390

Offline Birdman

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Re: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 07:43:54 PM »

* NGC just opened a submission center in Shanghai.  An education seminar will be held in Nov 15 and our Peter Anthony is among the distinguished speakers.
http://www.ngccoin.com//news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=2371

For anyone attending the seminar, it would be interesting to ask NGC what safeguards they have in place to ensure that grading standards are consistent for NGC in China and for NGC in the USA.  With the talk of grading standards recently getting tougher at the US facility, it would naturally be disappointing to learn in the future that the China facilities were awarding 69s and 70s at a higher rate...But this is certainly something that they have spent considerable time thinking about.  I'm sure collectors would welcome a statement from NGC that addresses this issue.

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 08:11:11 PM »
This makes me think about grading bias. NGC will tell you that the grader only sees the coin, nothing else related tot he submission, when grading the coin. But as people have noted, early submissions of an issue can get higher grades. Does the grader expect that the earlier coins were hand-selected by submitters in order to have a higher probability of a 69/70? Possibly. That may also mean that later submissions have the expectation of a lower grade, due to survivability bias (the surviving ungraded coins are biased to lower grades).

But for a given coin, might entering a new market change that? Now the grader is sitting in China, and for many coins, they are the first coins submitted for grading from the Chinese market to NGC China. Might there also be an expectation of higher grades at the start? Possibly.

I have noticed a fair number of NGC 70 grade coins come out of China lately. It would be interesting to buy a few, break open, and resubmit raw to NGC in Florida.

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 12:26:37 AM »
For anyone attending the seminar, it would be interesting to ask NGC what safeguards they have in place to ensure that grading standards are consistent for NGC in China and for NGC in the USA.  With the talk of grading standards recently getting tougher at the US facility, it would naturally be disappointing to learn in the future that the China facilities were awarding 69s and 70s at a higher rate...But this is certainly something that they have spent considerable time thinking about.  I'm sure collectors would welcome a statement from NGC that addresses this issue.

Earlier today I met with several of NGC's top graders who are here in Shanghai. They are the same graders who grade coins in Florida…and the people getting their coins back here are talking about how tough the standards are, too.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 12:42:15 AM »
Is there any indication anywhere on the holder of the region/location/country where the coin was graded?

Offline Pandagongzi

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Re: Interesting articles in November NGC eNews
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2013, 09:50:55 AM »
This makes me think about grading bias. NGC will tell you that the grader only sees the coin, nothing else related tot he submission, when grading the coin. But as people have noted, early submissions of an issue can get higher grades. Does the grader expect that the earlier coins were hand-selected by submitters in order to have a higher probability of a 69/70? Possibly. That may also mean that later submissions have the expectation of a lower grade, due to survivability bias (the surviving ungraded coins are biased to lower grades).

But for a given coin, might entering a new market change that? Now the grader is sitting in China, and for many coins, they are the first coins submitted for grading from the Chinese market to NGC China. Might there also be an expectation of higher grades at the start? Possibly.

I have noticed a fair number of NGC 70 grade coins come out of China lately. It would be interesting to buy a few, break open, and resubmit raw to NGC in Florida.

No doubt NGC has grading bias.  I recently bought 3 coins from a big dealer, all MS69.  One coin have 2 marks on Panda side which could be clearly seen on NGC website.  Dealer sent me the problematic coin instead of perfect MS69 one listed and later claimed they use stock photos. Another one has a red spot on the temple side.  According to new NGC standard should that be MS68?  This dealer typically submit over hundreds of coins under one invoice, wouldn't that hint graders the submission was from a big dealer?  And this big dealer is in the same city as NGC.  I bet they know each other in person.