Author Topic: Long Beach auction results  (Read 9321 times)

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Offline bonke

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Long Beach auction results
« on: September 27, 2013, 01:31:05 PM »
On September 26, 2013, Heritage held an auction at the Long Beach coin show.  Items 24234-24353 were modern Chinese coins and medals.  I have just reviewed the auction results.  From my perspective as a collector, the prices (including bidder premiums) were very, very low and it was a perfect opportunity for a collector, investor or dealer to purchase these items.  I suggest you review the results.  If you find anything which is interesting, consider sharing it with the members of this coin forum.   

Offline davidt3251

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Offline bonke

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 03:15:24 PM »
David

Are you saying the collapsing velocity of money caused item #24254, 1985 China 1oz gold panda, NGC MS68, to sell for less than spot (including the buyer's premium)?  What about all of the coin forum members who collect and invest in gold pandas?  Were they unwilling to pay spot or above for this reason or some other reason?

Personally, I am more interested in the auction results than the reasons for the auction results.  I know our economy has been "troubled" for many years.  Check out the results of the auction.  Very interesting.   

Mark Bonke

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 03:39:22 PM »
Hi Mark,

The previous Hong Kong conference had poor results and yes, I think it is at least partly caused by the velocity of money. Why didn't more collectors bid? Well, we're in an economic downturn, and it has affected Chinese coins somewhat.

This was a solid $2500 medal. We know Chinese dont like medals:
China San Francisco International Coin Expo gold Panda (1 ounce) PF69UC $1586
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24321

Thats more a reflection of the state of the US economy.

And this 1990 1oz Gold LD in MS69 at $1938 netted the seller $1598
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24274

Thats more a reflection of the malaise in our coin market caused by the low velocity of money.

I think its pretty obvious by now that deflation is affecting our market at present. Many are begging for inflation at this point. Who knows, maybe Yellen will save us for a few months.

-David





Offline Birdman

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 03:56:54 PM »
On September 26, 2013, Heritage held an auction at the Long Beach coin show.  Items 24234-24353 were modern Chinese coins and medals.  I have just reviewed the auction results.  From my perspective as a collector, the prices (including bidder premiums) were very, very low and it was a perfect opportunity for a collector, investor or dealer to purchase these items.  I suggest you review the results.  If you find anything which is interesting, consider sharing it with the members of this coin forum.    

Sometimes when you don't see lively bidding, it is because there isn't all that much to get excited about in the auction.  If you were interested in conventional gold pandas (1/20th - one ounce), there weren't that many better dates or better denominations in the auction.  Also there didn't seem to be a lot of high grade material (more 67s and 68s than usual?  Were there any MS70s?).  Nothing really caught my eye, so I didn't place a single bid on the Modern Chinese material (I bid on some other items).  Regarding the issue of why people didn't scoop up some of the coins near spot price, a question might be, is that the best way to employ limited funds right now?  Tying up several thousand dollars on M67 and MS68 of average dates means you don't have that money available to channel into better material that becomes available...Also, I'm on the Eastern US, so the actual auction occured too late for me.  If I had been watching the auction, I might have jumped in with a low bid on a few things, but if I'm not excited about the coin I'm not going to set a proxy bid in advance.

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2013, 07:27:31 PM »
i agree with birdman. i looked at the catalogue for the auction with another forum member, a major dealer, and we agreed that there was nothing exciting in the auction. way too many 68s and lower. i saw far more exciting coins at the SCOINS auction a few months ago and even bid on some. i believe some stuff got auctioned around spot because there was just not much attention paid to a less-than-exciting auction.

Offline comeaux

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 07:51:54 PM »
This was a solid $2500 medal. We know Chinese dont like medals:
China San Francisco International Coin Expo gold Panda (1 ounce) PF69UC $1586
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24321

Wow I wish I would have looked at the auction ... would have loved to get this coin for even $2,000, someone got a steal !

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »
I thought there were a few items that were interesting and I wish I was more aggressive on the lunars.

The Platinum 1989 Snake was cheap. $3290 incl. BP.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24331

The Dragon and Phoenix Set from 1990 sold for a pretty good price, $10,575. Thats higher than recent sales.
Dragon & Phoenix Gold and Silver Proof Set 1990

The 1994 1oz Dog sold below where I thought it would considering the quality. $3965
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24336

I just don't know why people look for reasons why this particular auction was weak when the past few auctions have been weak. This slowdown has been going on for months, and it just looks like its a function of decreased liquidity to me.




Offline sasushi

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2013, 10:20:13 PM »
I thought there were a few items that were interesting and I wish I was more aggressive on the lunars.

The Platinum 1989 Snake was cheap. $3290 incl. BP.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24331

The Dragon and Phoenix Set from 1990 sold for a pretty good price, $10,575. Thats higher than recent sales.
Dragon & Phoenix Gold and Silver Proof Set 1990

The 1994 1oz Dog sold below where I thought it would considering the quality. $3965
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24336

I just don't know why people look for reasons why this particular auction was weak when the past few auctions have been weak. This slowdown has been going on for months, and it just looks like its a function of decreased liquidity to me.




The platinum snake has the same "spots" as  the silver one, which I once sent to ngc and it got a 69. What kind of spots are they? What grade would the platinum one get?

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 01:20:15 AM »
For me, the auction offering was uninspiring to the point where I could not find one coin worth bidding on.   Also, omp coins have been taking a beating every week on zhao online.  These results are in line with what I am seeing.  Furthermore with grading getting tougher why take the risk of omp without seeing the coin in hand.  I would much rather pay up for a 69 than take a chance.

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 02:09:16 AM »
I have no idea what grade the Platinum Snake would get, especially since NGC is all over the place with their standards.
I wasn't planning on grading it. I don't grade all my coins.

Also, I notice Xuhong has started running auctions. Am I mistaken or is this a first?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-1oz-10-Yuan-China-Silver-ASEAN-Expo-Panda-Coin-with-COA-Original-Box-/271286951994?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3f29f6603a

Offline comeaux

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 04:26:16 AM »
Also, omp coins have been taking a beating every week on zhao online.  These results are in line with what I am seeing.  Furthermore with grading getting tougher why take the risk of omp without seeing the coin in hand.  I would much rather pay up for a 69 than take a chance.

:thumbup:

Offline Birdman

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 09:02:47 AM »
Also, omp coins have been taking a beating every week on zhao online.  These results are in line with what I am seeing.

Can you share more about what you've observed?  On zhao online, does this apply for all OMP, even those that are clearly authentic OMP and those that have large, detailed photos?  I wonder how the premium differences for OMP vs 67, 68, 69 have changed (if at all) compared to a year or two ago?  If there has been a change, I wonder if the premium over spot price for OMP has decreased, or whether the premium for MS69 has just increased more than OMP (or both)?...Thanks, I don't get a chance to follow zhao online frequently...

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2013, 11:31:20 AM »
I always check every Monday and then once or twice during the week.   I will find some examples and post links.  There is definitely a large divergence btw omp and 69.  Generally it appears that omp has been moving closer to spot but there is still a premium over spot.  Every coin is different but at the macro level more value is being placed on 68 + coins

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 12:27:11 PM »
I always check every Monday and then once or twice during the week.   I will find some examples and post links.  There is definitely a large divergence btw omp and 69.  Generally it appears that omp has been moving closer to spot but there is still a premium over spot.  Every coin is different but at the macro level more value is being placed on 68 + coins

I wonder if one of the causes for this malaise is NGC's stricter grading standards.

NGC may have decided on stricter grading because in general the remaining ungraded coins in the market are lower quality.

But a lot of collector-dealers like myself have product thats still in sheets, and the sheets graded say 2-3 years ago of the same coin got few 68s, mostly 69s and about one 70 a sheet. Now its mainly 68s and 69s, almost 50-50, for the one particular coin I am thinking of. These are silver Pandas and they dont have spots or degradation.

So I think its a case also of the tail wagging the dog. Submitters dont want low grades so they are holding back good coins. Sellers are selecting poorer quality coins to sell. Some people are holding off on submissions to see if prices rise again. This restricts supply of good product. Some collectors I know have gotten turned off and have left the market or gone dormant.

So perhaps NGC thinks they are responding to the market, but they are also influencing the market.

Offline GDG's

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2013, 10:26:09 PM »
davidt3251 >>>I wonder if one of the causes for this malaise is NGC's stricter grading standards.<<<

I don't think so. If you follow collectors of American coins many do not think too much of CMC's. I for one have scaled purchases of CMC's big time. I'll keep what I want but do not wish to purchase anymore. I believe there are many numismatics that agree with me. JMHO

Offline GDG's

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2013, 10:35:18 PM »
>>>I believe there are many "NUMISMATISTS" that agree with me. <<<

I HATE bad grammer. N26




Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 01:06:03 AM »
davidt3251 >>>I wonder if one of the causes for this malaise is NGC's stricter grading standards.<<<

I don't think so. If you follow collectors of American coins many do not think too much of CMC's. I for one have scaled purchases of CMC's big time. I'll keep what I want but do not wish to purchase anymore. I believe there are many numismatics that agree with me. JMHO


Look, I don't know your personal circumstances, everyones is different.

The US CMC market is a graded coin market. Buyers of OMP CMCs are suffering under NGCs more strict grading. Buyers have lost a lot of money on sheets where they are supposed to be 69-70, not 68 and 69. You buy them based on 69-70 and when you sell you book a loss.

I am not the only one. That practice is driving people away from the business, plain and simple.

If people are making money they are happier with their investment. Suddenly sellers want more for 69s and buyers won't pay up. The same coin is now graded 68 but sells at a discount because the instability of NGCs grading practices has driven out bidders in general. When the primary grading service goes from 84% grading 69 to 60%, that's an unreasonable 30% drop. (these statistics were posted on CCF recently). I don't think that's change instills confidence, I think a market that acts like it doesn't know what its doing will attract a lot of 'newbie' investors. Thanks NGC. /sarc

Its just like the stock market. The government and brokers play with the indexes, sure Google and Tesla do well, but stocks outside of the index door poorly. Its a thin market. Retail has disappeared.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 06:58:08 AM »
The trend of tougher grading on mcc's is not a recent issue.   I noticed this happening about 18 months ago on my own submissions and quickly stopped buying omp in favor of graded 69's.  I may occasionally by omp but only related to rare coins and at a price that is equivalent to a 67.  All this does is make the 69s more valuable and lower supply of 69's over time.  While 69's may seem plentiful in this market I would not take this for granted several years from now as I believe supply will dry up and 68 will be the new norm.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 10:16:48 AM »
This invariably leads to higher prices for 69 graded coins and lower prices for omp

Offline pandaccumulator

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 02:04:51 PM »
davidt3251 >>>I wonder if one of the causes for this malaise is NGC's stricter grading standards.<<<

I don't think so. If you follow collectors of American coins many do not think too much of CMC's. I for one have scaled purchases of CMC's big time. I'll keep what I want but do not wish to purchase anymore. I believe there are many numismatics that agree with me. JMHO

I agree with you,GoldenDragonGirls, just like you, I have scaled back a lot on my purchases. I think the whole trend is still down, I follow prices in China(zhaoonline) closely, I try to pay 80% or less of going prices in China, this strategy has limited my loss over the past two years. Except for certain date fractional gold pandas, in general, if you get into this market(MCC) after late 2010, you are sitting on an average of 30-40% loss. On the positive side, I am glad I remain to be diversified and have done very well on modern US coins, such as gold proof buffaloes/burnished eagles etc.


Offline GDG's

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2013, 02:57:11 PM »
>>>On the positive side, I am glad I remain to be diversified and have done very well on modern US coins, such as gold proof buffaloes/burnished eagles etc. <<<

pandaaccumulator,

The gold buffalo are a great coin. The 2008 w MS have a nice low mintage(lower then proof) and still a great value. I love those coins. N31

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2013, 09:22:08 AM »
Except for certain date fractional gold pandas, in general, if you get into this market(MCC) after late 2010, you are sitting on an average of 30-40% loss.

I would generally disagree with this statement.  Yes, many coins have seen drops of 50%, however if this were true all of the dealers would not be in business.  These price drops were generally on the past high fliers.  And while I admit I may have only a handful of coins in this situation, I have personally purchased many coins for my collection and investment in the post 2010 era and have seen gains of close to 100% in some cases.  While each individual case is different, I think it is important to perform your own due diligence and research.  YOu must have your own strategy and stick with it and not make impulse decisons. 

Here is a great example.  This coin could have been bought from a different dealer for $4500 last week (which was undervalued!!) and the bidding continues...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHINA-SILVER-35-YUAN-1979-YEAR-OF-CHILD-MATTE-PERFECT-CONDITION-SP-69-MATTE/331031281355?_trksid=p2050601.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D17614%26meid%3D1652935996676670828%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D8172%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D331031281355%26%26clkid%3D1652938083294483919&_qi=RTM1562569#ht_444wt_1451

Offline pandaccumulator

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 04:05:23 PM »
I would generally disagree with this statement.  Yes, many coins have seen drops of 50%, however if this were true all of the dealers would not be in business.  These price drops were generally on the past high fliers.  And while I admit I may have only a handful of coins in this situation, I have personally purchased many coins for my collection and investment in the post 2010 era and have seen gains of close to 100% in some cases.  While each individual case is different, I think it is important to perform your own due diligence and research.  YOu must have your own strategy and stick with it and not make impulse decisons. 

Here is a great example.  This coin could have been bought from a different dealer for $4500 last week (which was undervalued!!) and the bidding continues...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHINA-SILVER-35-YUAN-1979-YEAR-OF-CHILD-MATTE-PERFECT-CONDITION-SP-69-MATTE/331031281355?_trksid=p2050601.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D17614%26meid%3D1652935996676670828%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D8172%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D331031281355%26%26clkid%3D1652938083294483919&_qi=RTM1562569#ht_444wt_1451
1668Chris, I have to say I disagree with you. I should have corrected myself: What I meant was if you get in this market as a collector( dealers or traders are not included) after late 2010, you are sitting on an average loss of 30-40%. If you are a dealer or active trader, you can still make profit, as long as you move thing in and out quickly enough. Dealers, esp smart ones who know the market dynamics well, should still make money regardless of market condition, and therefore, will never go out of business.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 09:52:44 PM »
I am a fairly new small time collector (less than 3 yrs).  You are right, value of most of my MCC have dropped.  Thats OK.  Markets go up and down as have other investments in the past.  The MCC market still has tremendous potential.  Just gotta survive the low points to appreciate the future high life.   This small market could become a monster, so I am happy.....  :)     

Offline GDG's

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2013, 10:15:53 PM »
I am a fairly new small time collector (less than 3 yrs).  You are right, value of most of my MCC have dropped.  Thats OK.  Markets go up and down as have other investments in the past.  The MCC market still has tremendous potential.  Just gotta survive the low points to appreciate the future high life.   This small market could become a monster, so I am happy.....  :)     

Potential depends upon ones time frame. The trend is now down with CMC's no denying that. Buy what you like so you're not disappointed if prices fall in the short term. I believe prices will continue to decline. I do hope I'm wrong but all indications show downward prices. Also CMC's are controlled by so few dealers they try very hard keep prices artificially high as best they can. The chicanery that exists among dealers of CMC's does not help. Is it worse then American coins? You betcha it is. All you need do is follow this site to understand how often dealers try to cheat buyers. This is a HUGE red flag to anyone who is new to collecting CMC's. I cannot blame them. I am very happy with my collection to date. I am very unhappy with many dealers of late too. Making a profit is one thing, trying to cheat someone is another.

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2013, 11:16:19 PM »
I am very unhappy with many dealers of late too. Making a profit is one thing, trying to cheat someone is another.

Just for the sake of discussion can you expand on your cheating comment? I would definitely say that reneging on a deal is really bad. Obviously theft is too. As far as dealers are concerned, I know some who will pay the most they can for a coin and others who will pay the least. OTOH, I can't remember ever seeing a collector tell a dealer that a coin is priced too low. I have, however, seen a dealer do that for a colleague. I know dealers who worked for years to make good on their obligations and I know others who skipped town and left everyone else holding the bag. So I call some dealers friends and others not.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline GDG's

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2013, 11:55:09 PM »
>>>Just for the sake of discussion can you expand on your cheating comment?<<<

>>> I know dealers who worked for years to make good on their obligations and I know others who skipped town and left everyone else holding the bag. So I call some dealers friends and others not<<<


Hi Peter,

The cheating comment I made is referencing the recent OMP/NonOMP discussed here in depth recently. This has burned many people who bought OMP expecting TRUE OMP and not coins that were resealed. This has happened to me personally. Sure I returned coins that were obviously subpar coins but it left me miffed that someone would do that even knowing I am a long time collector. I am fortunate to have dealt with many American dealers in graded coins who have been honest and great dealers.

Regarding dealers who have "skipped town" I had to laugh. They have been around a long time and not just CMC's. JT coins comes to mind re: CMC's. I actually never had a bad deal with that dealer (and had many) BUT am disgusted in what happened at the end of his coin selling "business" career.

>>>So I call some dealers friends and others not.<<<

Yes I do NOT want anyone to get the wrong idea. There are so many great dealers of CMC's out there. They are the ones who have blogs, discuss coins, and add their opinions right here. I could name many but don't want to seem like a shill for them. I think everyone here knows the honest dealers.


Offline pandamonium

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 05:33:14 PM »
I would generally disagree with this statement.  Yes, many coins have seen drops of 50%, however if this were true all of the dealers would not be in business.  These price drops were generally on the past high fliers.  And while I admit I may have only a handful of coins in this situation, I have personally purchased many coins for my collection and investment in the post 2010 era and have seen gains of close to 100% in some cases.  While each individual case is different, I think it is important to perform your own due diligence and research.  YOu must have your own strategy and stick with it and not make impulse decisons. 

Here is a great example.  This coin could have been bought from a different dealer for $4500 last week (which was undervalued!!) and the bidding continues...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHINA-SILVER-35-YUAN-1979-YEAR-OF-CHILD-MATTE-PERFECT-CONDITION-SP-69-MATTE/331031281355?_trksid=p2050601.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D17614%26meid%3D1652935996676670828%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D8172%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D331031281355%26%26clkid%3D1652938083294483919&_qi=RTM1562569#ht_444wt_1451

1668 Chris or any forum member, my question.   The 1979 Year of Child Matte silver has 1,000 mintage Mr. Ge.  NGC has graded 112 total, 93 are PF 69.   The 1982 Bank of China silver medal has 16,000 mintage.  NGC has graded 5 total, 1 is PF 68, 3 are 67 and one 64.  I have emailed several US and China seller and all say it is a very rare medal.  A PF 67 sold for about $500 then a OMP sold for close to $600.  The knock is the high planned mintage and it is a medal.  I have seen about 3 to 4 a yr on ebay.  Higher prices may encourage more to be graded.  Could the 82 Bank of China be more rare then the 79 Yr of Child Matte?  Could the Bank of China command the price the Yr of Child Matte is getting? 

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 06:38:40 PM »
...The 1982 Bank of China silver medal has 16,000 mintage.  NGC has graded 5 total, 1 is PF 68, 3 are 67 and one 64...
Given the price, I would think the actual/surviving mintage is lower.

Offline Yandy1990

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2013, 08:10:05 PM »
1668 Chris or any forum member, my question.   The 1979 Year of Child Matte silver has 1,000 mintage Mr. Ge.  NGC has graded 112 total, 93 are PF 69.   The 1982 Bank of China silver medal has 16,000 mintage.  NGC has graded 5 total, 1 is PF 68, 3 are 67 and one 64.  I have emailed several US and China seller and all say it is a very rare medal.  A PF 67 sold for about $500 then a OMP sold for close to $600.  The knock is the high planned mintage and it is a medal.  I have seen about 3 to 4 a yr on ebay.  Higher prices may encourage more to be graded.  Could the 82 Bank of China be more rare then the 79 Yr of Child Matte?  Could the Bank of China command the price the Yr of Child Matte is getting? 

With my Chinese background, I think the cultural value of YoC is way higher. The design was done by a famouse artist and it is way better than the CB coin.

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2013, 09:20:27 PM »
Just on ebay, two 1982 Bank of China medals were listed within days of each other in August, one ungraded with box, one graded. Another one was listed and sold May 5.

There was an ungraded one with box that sold in Australia also on May 27 for A$338

As far as I can tell, four coins in five months is actually more than the Year of Child Matte has sold on ebay in the same period, but time will tell if thats an anomaly.



Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2013, 09:30:44 PM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medallion-1982-Bank-of-China-70th-Anniversary-/321171776906

Sold:  ~US $82

This is usually what happened when listed in the wrong category.


Offline pandamonium

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2013, 10:12:38 AM »
Interesting.  We are all looking for a diamond in the rough.  Is the B of C really rare or just waiting for the price to hit the $1,000 mark to bring more of them to market.   It has potential to be a home run but the jury is still out........

Offline comeaux

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2013, 12:35:16 PM »
1668Chris, I have to say I disagree with you. I should have corrected myself: What I meant was if you get in this market as a collector( dealers or traders are not included) after late 2010, you are sitting on an average loss of 30-40%. If you are a dealer or active trader, you can still make profit, as long as you move thing in and out quickly enough. Dealers, esp smart ones who know the market dynamics well, should still make money regardless of market condition, and therefore, will never go out of business.

I can’t speak for ALL MCC’s as I only collect Panda’s but I feel the pandas have done fairly well, especially the gold pandas. I’ve only recently scaled back on coins as I’ve been expending quite a bit on CGC books but I’m always looking for a good deal when I can find one.

Of course everyone has a different timeline and I’m just a simple collector but for me these coins are bought and held not be sold for 20 years or more so I rarely (if ever) even look at recent prices.

Happy collecting !  :thumbup:

Offline aragog

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2013, 02:51:22 PM »
Just on ebay, two 1982 Bank of China medals were listed within days of each other in August, one ungraded with box, one graded. Another one was listed and sold May 5.

There was an ungraded one with box that sold in Australia also on May 27 for A$338

As far as I can tell, four coins in five months is actually more than the Year of Child Matte has sold on ebay in the same period, but time will tell if thats an anomaly.



I have asked a question about this medal a year or two ago. Not much information was about this medal at that time, And even more, since then, not much of them were on ebay. Unfortunatelly, my came with scratches and not gradable I think.
At that time one of forum members gave a link to a useful site in chinese on all medals andthis one was listed there as well.
And my understanding is, that the coin, at least most of the mintage was given to the people involved in banking, not collectioners. This explains its rarity in numismatic world. Moreover, it can also explain that a few were graded and with lower grades. Majority are prbably as mine ungradable, as general population does not how to handle PROOF coins.

And, of course, I am glad, that more people appreciate this medal now, its one of the early medals and deserves more attention. I never regret  buying  even   scratched one

Offline sasushi

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2013, 02:07:19 PM »
For me, the auction offering was uninspiring to the point where I could not find one coin worth bidding on.   Also, omp coins have been taking a beating every week on zhao online.  These results are in line with what I am seeing.  Furthermore with grading getting tougher why take the risk of omp without seeing the coin in hand.  I would much rather pay up for a 69 than take a chance.

The Platinum 1989 Snake  $3290 incl. BP.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24331
got a 69 UC grading.

Regards
Sasushi

Offline davidt3251

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Re: Long Beach auction results
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2013, 03:43:35 PM »
Nice. Thats what I said on Sept 27

"The Platinum 1989 Snake was cheap. $3290 incl. BP.
http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3026&lotNo=24331"