Author Topic: What's wrong with this picture?  (Read 97877 times)

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Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 03:48:43 AM »
Is this OMP legit or?

I have only seen 2001-d in Shenzen (photo 1). Legit

2001 regular (no D, for export) in Shanghai. (Photo 2 and 3) Legit

But its this last photo, of "D" type - of "sheet" "looks" like Shanghai? Or is it made-up? Number of plastic nubs does not seem equal- off by a few. Does that matter?
Is paper real?  (Photo 4)
Were 2001-D made minted or wrapped in Shanghai wrap?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-10-pcs-China-1-20oz-G20Y-gold-panda-coin-with-D-mark-/271268894824?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3f28e2d868
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 04:23:47 AM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2013, 04:39:36 AM »
This information shows 2001-D only made at Shenzhen Guobao Mint (GB), not Shanghai Mint (SH)
Maybe this information is incorrect?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 07:32:11 AM »
Looks like a case of FMP to me....
*FauxMP™

 :001_tt2:

Offline eurokrem

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2013, 10:47:20 AM »
hmm, this discussion is very interesting,

 in past there was issue about resealed coins and seller was a Chinese business man from china, now it is an USA Firm and nobody gives any attention about it, instead there are Pictures of allegedly fake pouches from ( again ) Chinese seller in attempt to camouflage those fake OMP from USA.

very interesting indeed   N67

У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline wg

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2013, 12:47:46 PM »

eurokrem

+1

indeed .. very interesting

xu hong

sorry ...  -1 :cursing:
i thought those times are over. :(

Offline GDG's

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 01:05:53 PM »
At the very least any seller should post that coin is in a "RESEALED" pouch. If that isn't stated I believe it is deceitful. Everyone should contact ebay about this practice.

In an email chat with a very reputable dealer everyone here knows I had mentioned how I had little luck getting a 69 with certain coins.
His reply "Many of the OMP that are left are lesser quality as well." I think he is dead on. I think we may be seeing lower grade coins cracked out, resealed and sold as OMP. JMHO.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2013, 01:21:00 PM »
Yes.  For that reason I am very hesitant these days to buy
coins in OMP from dealers who also send in coins for grading.
One has to ask why didn't they have that one graded ?

It used to be better odds getting good coins in OMP from older
Private collections.  Now sadly the quality is deteriorating
from private collectors too, as poorer coins in OMP are getting
passed around.
Still, the outright deception of sellers going through the cost
and trouble of Fabricating fake OMP goes beyond
even resealing a coin in its original OMP.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline wittu

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2013, 02:37:03 PM »
eurokrem

+1

indeed .. very interesting

xu hong

sorry ...  -1 :cursing:
i thought those times are over. :(

...but we finally will come to the truth!  :001_tt2:
And YES: i thought these times were over, too! Especially in this mentioned  case  N10 i really am disappointed!!!

But there seem to be even more cases we have to be afraid of :cursing:

wittu  N48

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2013, 02:44:25 PM »

 in past there was issue about resealed coins and seller was a Chinese business man from china, now it is an USA Firm and nobody gives any attention about it, instead there are Pictures of allegedly fake pouches from ( again ) Chinese seller in attempt to camouflage those fake OMP from USA.


You're kidding, right?

If not, you are just 100% wrong in that statement. Who are you saying is trying to camoflage anything?  Nobody I see, including me since I posted both, is trying to "camouflage" fake OMP from USA. Recall it was my original posting questioning apparent Fake OMP listed by APMEX that started this whole thread? Then WG contributed many more photos of obvious fake OMP being sold, and we dont know if the sellers are the fake sealers, or if they just pass them on unknowingly, right?  And I questioned the 2001-D, asking if the Shanghai Wrap is legitimate since all info I have seen questions that.  So if 2001-D came in Shanghai Mint wrap, fine, that is what I am trying to learn.  Maybe someone with knowledge will confirm that. All information I have researched so far says no, but hey, thats why its interesting.  I would Like to know it came in Shanghai wrap as it would suggest the possibility of new valuable varieties. I was ready to buy, until closer scrutiny brought up unsettling similarities with the obvious fake plastic wrap and / or seals.
Otherwise it is open to question, if this wrap is legit or fake.
 I don't care WHO is doing it.  American dealer, European dealer, Chinese dealer, or no dealers, just shady small timer who give to dealers.  Fake, manufactured OMP rises to a whole higher level of deception in my opinion, over just re-sealing original mint plastic.  That was justified by the argument of opening the OMP, heat- treating the coins to remove red spots, then re-sealing in original plastic to give customers a nicer coin.
What is the justification for having a fake plastic sealer made to try to duplicate the original plastic seal pattern, if not to deceive buyers into thinking they are getting OMP?
Thsi is not a matter of WHO is doing it, American seller, Chinese seller, or European seller.
This is a matter of principle. If it is deceipt or ends up in a buyer being deceived, it is fraud and wrong.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline wittu

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2013, 02:50:15 PM »
Hippanda,

i`m not sure...but i think eurokrem didn`t refer it on YOU.

We really try to find out the truth, about these awful things. Especially wg is trying this FOR YEARS (us german collectors do profit from his work, knowledge and honesty very much).

Best wishes,
wittu  N48

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 02:59:56 PM »
Since eurokrem posted this:


 .. instead there are Pictures of allegedly fake pouches from ( again ) Chinese seller in attempt to camouflage those fake OMP from USA.


and I posted the pictures, yes, wittu, there is no doubt he was "referring it on" me, but incorrectly.

Again, the issue is Integrity. Is it ok for any seller or every seller to not have it?
I believe WG thinks not.  I think not.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline GDG's

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 03:14:50 PM »
Hippanda

>>>I don't care WHO is doing it.  American dealer, European dealer, Chinese dealer, or no dealers, just shady small timer who give to dealers.  Fake, manufactured OMP rises to a whole higher level of deception in my opinion, over just re-sealing original mint plastic.  That was justified by the argument of opening the OMP, heat- treating the coins to remove red spots, then re-sealing in original plastic to give customers a nicer coin.
What is the justification for having a fake plastic sealer made to try to duplicate the original plastic seal pattern, if not to deceive buyers into thinking they are getting OMP?
Thsi is not a matter of WHO is doing it, American seller, Chinese seller, or European seller.
This is a matter of principle. If it is deceipt or ends up in a buyer being deceived, it is fraud and wrong.<<<


That is it in a nutshell. I think almost everyone agrees with you. BTW great digging out those pics of pseudo OMP. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 03:34:06 PM »
Thanks GDG-

I still want to believe in my heart of hearts the 2001-D in the Shanghai wrap is somehow legit.

Do any of the top level collectors of OMP here know?  WG?  Poconopenn?  PA?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline eurokrem

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2013, 03:39:14 PM »
 @Hippanda

you are near Heart-attack by viewing Pouch of 2001D in good looking condition and without any Evidence that those coins were not in Shanghai minted but about 4 ( four ) coins in absolutely and without any doubt fake OMPs selling from big USA dealer you don't loose a word  N4

are you kidding ?

that's why i think this thread is very interesting, you could easily recognise peoples real purposes in such matters.

this kind of detour is not very sophisticated, sorry, but your posts says one and your doings something else.

with your long and heartbreaking post where you are attacking me you don't achieve anything and who is selling those coins in Fake OMP is no secret more in Germany, but due to big influence of this dealer nobody in USA dares to speech about.

I have saw this kind of game many times in my life.


so, you are free to give me a bad karma point  :lol: N27 N25


 
У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline Hippanda

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Re: What's wrong with this picture?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2013, 03:48:40 PM »
@Hippanda

you are near Heart-attack by viewing Pouch of 2001D in good looking condition and without any Evidence that those coins were not in Shanghai minted but about 4 ( four ) coins in absolutely and without any doubt fake OMPs selling from big USA dealer you don't loose a word  N4

are you kidding ?

that's why i think this thread is very interesting, you could easily recognise peoples real purposes in such matters.

this kind of detour is not very sophisticated, sorry, but your posts says one and your doings something else.

with your long and heartbreaking post where you are attacking me you don't achieve anything and who is selling those coins in Fake OMP is no secret more in Germany, but due to big influence of this dealer nobody in USA dares to speech about.

I have saw this kind of game many times in my life.


so, you are free to give me a bad karma point  :lol: N27 N25


  

I am gathering there is a language barrier here.  Otherwise you are not making sense.
I AM the one who originated this thread and pointed out the near-certain fake wrap on the APMEX listing, no?  Then HOW can you suggest I am trying to ignore it? That doesn't make sense and is just plain silly.

AND I pointed out the irony of the APMEX ad tag: ("Buy with confidence from APMEX on eBay!")  
And pointed out they have been caught photoshopping images.
So there is no game, nobody is attacking you other than to try to clear up that you are not understanding clear English writing, which is fine and happens from time to time.

No heart attack, no heartbreak either, and no karma points affected.  No drama.
Just asking for the truth. That is the real purpose.

Now do you have additional, maybe documented information that 2001-D was definitely minted or wrapped in Shanghai ?
If so I would like to see it.  Otherwise, all info I have seen so far says "not".  Please feel free to add concrete evidence and not guesses based on how it "appears" as we know that is losing credibility daily. By the way look closely at the wrap- there are small differences and that is what is bringing up the issue.  The first pics of fake OMP posted by myself and supplied by WG and eurokrem are obvious and poorly done efforts ( not even square).  Are the fakers getting better?  You can bet they are or will be.
I would invite the European collectors here especially from Germany to share what they know and not hold back.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 04:09:37 PM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius