Author Topic: This is very strange ???  (Read 40157 times)

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Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2013, 12:33:47 PM »
Great catch, comeaux. 
+1

My brother is a copyright attorney and I've talked to him specifically about posting copyrighted material on CCF.  He felt we are on safe ground if the materials were used to support specific discussion directly connect to the information in question on a non-profit forum.  This falls well within the "fair use" clause of the copyright law.
Thank you sandac  :thumbup:

Offline Birdman

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2013, 12:40:07 PM »
My brother is a copyright attorney and I've talked to him specifically about posting copyrighted material on CCF.  He felt we are on safe ground if the materials were used to support specific discussion directly connect to the information in question on a non-profit forum.  This falls well within the "fair use" clause of the copyright law.

A photo for the record...

Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2013, 12:41:44 PM »
Here below is the correspondence between NGC and me back in April of last year regarding a coin I had listed for sale on Ebay. Please note that my Ebay listing clearly described that the coin was actually an “MS” coin and not a proof “PF” coin as was listed on the NGC holder. Also I was not trying to profit because of the error listing, I had the coin listed at a normal price. After this communication I did in fact send the coin back for proper labeling and the coin did sale.

My point here is that I was not being deceptive at all and had all information listed about this specific coin but yet you can see the tone that NGC had taken against me. It seems that what MCM is doing is infinitely worse yet not even a slap on the wrist ???   

Randy,
I work for NGC and we were contacted about this label error (Ebay Item #XXXXXXXXXXXX) by one of our clients. Our database has been corrected, and I would like to offer you a free mechanical error reholder if you send the coin back to us for correction. We'll also pay for roundtrip shipping. If you have any questions, feel free to email me at XXXXX@ngccoin.com or call XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Thank you,
XXXXXX

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Randy Comeaux <RComeaux@XXXX.com> wrote:
Hi XXXX,
I got this above message from you about the item I have listed on Ebay. I know that it is an NGC label error and have listed it described as so. I will try to sell as is but if it doesn’t sell after listing is final I may send it back in for correction … as always Thanks !   

Hi Randy,
We'd like for you to send it back to us for correction. As the original submitter, you have a duty to inspect the coins to make sure that they are accurately described (please refer to our Guarantee and terms and conditions). Selling the coin into the marketplace, where someone might overpay based on the error, may force us to take action with your account with NGC.
I don't mean to be forceful, but I also don't want someone to overpay for an incorrectly described coin sometime down the road.
XXXX


Offline GDG's

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2013, 12:58:34 PM »
 comeaux +1

For standing up to the "forces of darkness" N26

Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2013, 01:04:17 PM »
comeaux +1

For standing up to the "forces of darkness" N26
Thanks GDG !

Maybe I have to be more careful ... I might end up wearing "cement shoes"  :scared:

Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 01:06:26 PM »
A photo for the record...

MCM “copyright” privileges regarding this “Frankenstein” coin are about as effective and sensible as a bank robber attempting to “copyright” his plans to rob a bank. It ain’t gonna fly ...    

Don’t even see how MCM would have a leg to stand on about “copyright” infringements … what they are doing is illegal and against Ebay policy and NGC as well. We as consumers have a right to expose fraudulent behavior.  We are not talking here about buying $1 dollar items or junk trinkets … we are discussing deceitful behavior involving items that cost $1,000’s of dollars and a company making millions. Fraudulent behavior involving HIGH VALUE precious metals and numismatics is criminal and should be prosecuted.       

As I’ve said before, I have purchased coins from MCM and I have always gotten good service, in the past I’ve given them as a reference to others looking for coins so these recent issues are not only horrible for MCM reputation but my reputation has been tarnished as well for giving MCM as a reference.

To make matters worse … those guys (Hayden) and others at MCM are monitoring this website and have read this very post yet there is none (and will be none) response to this “Frankenstein” coin or even the shill bidding activity.   

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 01:39:40 PM »
ebay clearly doesn't care about MCM shill bidding, because multiple MCM listings have been reported to them, and the bid history clearly shows what's going on, yet none of these auctions have been cancelled. i suppose it's no surprise that ebay prefers not to risk upsetting a customer that creates alot of revenue for them. but the hypocrisy of allowing MCM to clearly violate ebay's policies against shill bidding, as well as misleading photos of items, is a bit hard to swallow.

Offline panda88

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 01:47:09 PM »
Here below is the correspondence between NGC and me back in April of last year regarding a coin I had listed for sale on Ebay. Please note that my Ebay listing clearly described that the coin was actually an “MS” coin and not a proof “PF” coin as was listed on the NGC holder. Also I was not trying to profit because of the error listing, I had the coin listed at a normal price. After this communication I did in fact send the coin back for proper labeling and the coin did sale.

My point here is that I was not being deceptive at all and had all information listed about this specific coin but yet you can see the tone that NGC had taken against me. It seems that what MCM is doing is infinitely worse yet not even a slap on the wrist ???   

Randy,
I work for NGC and we were contacted about this label error (Ebay Item #XXXXXXXXXXXX) by one of our clients. Our database has been corrected, and I would like to offer you a free mechanical error reholder if you send the coin back to us for correction. We'll also pay for roundtrip shipping. If you have any questions, feel free to email me at XXXXX@ngccoin.com or call XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Thank you,
XXXXXX

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Randy Comeaux <RComeaux@XXXX.com> wrote:
Hi XXXX,
I got this above message from you about the item I have listed on Ebay. I know that it is an NGC label error and have listed it described as so. I will try to sell as is but if it doesn’t sell after listing is final I may send it back in for correction … as always Thanks !   

Hi Randy,
We'd like for you to send it back to us for correction. As the original submitter, you have a duty to inspect the coins to make sure that they are accurately described (please refer to our Guarantee and terms and conditions). Selling the coin into the marketplace, where someone might overpay based on the error, may force us to take action with your account with NGC.
I don't mean to be forceful, but I also don't want someone to overpay for an incorrectly described coin sometime down the road.
XXXX


Look like this case is same like your. I wonder the seller got the same message from NGC or not?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-GOLD-PANDA-100Y-PROOF-LIKE-1-Oz-CHINA-NGC-GRADING-ERROR-MS69-or-PF69-PR69-/300922184641?pt=US_Bullion_Coins&hash=item46105c23c1

Offline poconopenn

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 03:30:48 PM »
Anybody can make claim of copyright at anytime for "original works, including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works". However. IMO, nobody can claim copyright of picture of NGC encapsulated coin, since NGC posts picture of the said coin in its website for public view.

NGC responded to my note by saying,

 "Thank you for your email.  This is a photo shopped image that they are using to sell these coins.  If you were to purchase a coin, it would have a different certification number that would match the label..  Dealers will do this when they have a large quantity to sell."

So they don't seem to be worried about it.

I guess I still don't understand how taking a photo of a label on a slab, and then using photoshop to cut it out and paste that label on a different slab, is easier than simply taking a photo of the slabbed coin you want to sell?  Is making such composite photos of different slabs, labels, & coins consistent with eBay policies?  I just want transparency, so I don't feel like I always need to be looking over my shoulder for some scam.

Agreed, it takes more time to use photoshop to cut and paste the picture than take the picture directly.

The response from NGC is very strange. It sounds that NGC staff is acted as MCM’s PR person and they work together as a term.

Offline GDG's

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 05:33:59 PM »
Here is MCM auction ending in 3 days

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-China-1-20-oz-Gold-Panda-Large-Date-5Y-NGC-MS68-Mint-State-68-SKU28537-/130922187895?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1e7b920c77

Current High Bidder is none other than c***6

30-Day Summary
Total bids:   4381
Items bid on:   1625
Bid activity (%) with this seller:   92%   
Bid retractions:   46
Bid retractions (6 months):   58

Yes that is Correct Bid on 1,625 items

Bid activity with MCM is 92%

and look at those Bid retractions.

Just incredible.

The vast majority of my buys have NOT been thru eBay. They have been thru reputable dealers or collectors I know. I think I'd rather stick to this policy. Even if I think I can get a fair price through MCM I just don't feel right bidding against shill bidders.

panda88,

au3000 is another "weird" case. He's been mentioned here before.

Has anyone on the forum ever bought one of his overpriced coins? I know I haven't. I believe he is from Chicago.
There is an honest and fair seller from Chicago named Namchong Cho. He mainly sells Korean paper and China Modern Coins. He sells on ebay but you will do better dealing direct with him. He is 100% honest and comes up with some nice coins every so often.

Will the recent drop in pm's shake loose any rarer Gold China coins? I'm always looking. The rarer the coin the tighter the collectors fist. I know I won't be selling mine anytime soon no matter the price fluctuations. I'm sure most of us feel that way.

Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 07:43:43 PM »
Quote from: poconopenn
Agreed, it takes more time to use photoshop to cut and paste the picture than take the picture directly.

I’m with birdman & poconopenn … why the hell would anyone spend the time cutting, resizing, pasting and photoshopping coin images when they can just take a picture in 2 seconds ??? There is more to what’s going on here.

I would like an explanation of what the intentions were when an MCM employee/owner sat down, looked at his computer screen and decided to crop a 2001 gold panda and paste it over the holder of a 1990 gold panda … what the heck is going on with this MCM company ???

Maybe MCM has stock photos of almost every gold panda and anytime they have a coin with a slight blemish or imperfection, they just paste the “perfect” coin over the one with an imperfection?

Or it is possibly even more sinister than this … 

Offline comeaux

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 08:19:54 PM »

Offline BChung

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 09:18:43 PM »

Maybe MCM has stock photos of almost every gold panda and anytime they have a coin with a slight blemish or imperfection, they just paste the “perfect” coin over the one with an imperfection?



I think you hit the jackpot. As we can see being in a slab is useless to protect in many occasion to protect the coin from developing undesirable spots................ the NGC reply is just out right idiotic, seems like  they share a crony relationship. You know like the Banksters and politicians.

Well honestly thanks for bringing this up and I am bidding on 2 of their items, but will certainly be dropping my bid highest bid price by 30% atleast to buffer against these trade practice.

Offline GDG's

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2013, 09:31:28 PM »
Due to the seemingly "cozy" relationship between MCM and NGC I wonder if their 69 coins are truly 69's?

An NGC Great Wall 69 may be in fact a 68 and a 68 really a 67 or worse. This may be why they need to photoshop their coins on eBay. Since MCM also seems to have a "cozy" relationship with ebay they turn a blind eye toward MCM photoshopping their coins. This may be the pump n dump of the Coin industry.

Offline Straw Man

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Re: This is very strange ???
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 09:32:29 PM »
Proudly Presenting the:
Great Wall: Build-a-slabinator™

Endless possibilities.....

Move circulated pieces as if they were MS69 quality!
Move regular coins by inserting ultra-rare ones.
*just be sure to read the fine print