Author Topic: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?  (Read 31893 times)

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Offline ChineseCoinQuest

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 02:49:22 PM »
I'll post a photo of the large date 93 1/2 in OMP later, if no one has by then.

Offline Birdman

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 02:55:02 PM »
The 1/2s and other sizes can be slightly different and be either more or less difficult to differentiate.

That is a good point that the proportions for the 1993 G1/2 might be different than for other sizes, so using the book photo (if it is a photo of a G1 oz) as a guide for this coin may be misleading.

What did NGC label the 2nd coin you submitted?  Both as SD?

Both of the 1993 G1/2 were labeled as SD by NGC.  For what it is worth, I bought them in OMP from Apmex, marketed as LD.

 :confused1:

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 03:22:42 PM »
If you bought them in OMP, and it wasn't resealed, you could have confirmed which mint they were minted at, and whether they were Small or Large Date from the OMP pouch pattern.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 04:17:06 PM »
The numbers in large date are longer than small date in all sizes.

Attached pictures are PCGS graded 1/2 oz  large and small date.

 

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 04:42:24 PM »
I see a definite difference in those 2 pictures posted by Poconopenn.  That big of a size difference should be showing up on SANDACs overlays.  So either the overlays being done are not of a SD and a LD but all of one size (probably LD) or the pictures Poconopenn posted above are 2 different sizes of 1993 or at the least not 1/2s.

Poconopenn are you sure those 2 pictures are of 1993s that are the same size?  And if possible, 2 x 1993 1/2s?  If the 2 varieties on the 1/2 oz are as easy to see as the pictures above, I can't see why there would be this much confusion.

I am sure that if SANDAC took those 2 pictures and overlayed them the difference would be easy to see.

I can tell that 1993 1/10s are quite different.  The difference in size of the date is easy to tell.

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 04:50:50 PM »
If you bought them in OMP, and it wasn't resealed, you could have confirmed which mint they were minted at, and whether they were Small or Large Date from the OMP pouch pattern.

That is actually the one thing I like about OMP when purchasing certain years from pictures.  Assuming you can tell if it is a reseal or not.  However, if the difference that is making it a "variety" is so small or difficult to discern, that the best way to tell which "variety" it is, is by using the PACKAGING.  I wonder how important the "variety" really is.

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 05:05:06 PM »
Sorry for spamming the thread.  I'm bored.  I actually just took a closer look at a few eBay listings going on right now.  Liberty Coin has several 1993 1/2s labeled by PCGS as SD.  Jayson3 also has a 1993 1/2 labeled by PCGS as LD.  Just using those pictures there appears to be a pretty noticeable difference.

SANDAC, maybe you could overlay the 2 coins I am referring to on eBay.  This would help.

Just eyeballing the 1993 SD that Liberty coin is selling I would guess that Birdman's coins are LD.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 05:08:55 PM »

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 05:20:04 PM »
The pictures in my previous posting were taken from current eBay listings:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-50Y-Gold-Chinese-Panda-1-2-oz-large-date-PCGS-MS69-/400245266660?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item5d307a18e4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-China-Gold-Panda-1-2-oz-50-Yuan-Small-Date-PCGS-MS68-/271112736512?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3f1f940f00

The small date has the same design as proof ½ oz. Both are produced at Shenyang Mint.


Okay so those are the 2 listings I was referring to.  Oh you are saying both the SD and proof were produced at Shenyang.  That is interesting I will have to look at my 1993 proof 1/2 and compare it to my 1993 LD 1/2 and see if I can easily see the difference.  That will help clear it up for me at least.  I don't know if I've actually owned a 1993 1/2 BU Shenyang (SD).

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 06:47:12 PM »
There are differences between the eBay's PCGS LD (Jayson3) and PCGS SD (Liberty.coin), but not that much.   Jayson3 used a circular croping tool to show a larger reverse view, but the tool cropped away the rim at the bottom and it gives you an illusion of larger date.  If I use the whole slab image and overlay with the liberty.coin's image, the differences are much less.

The NGC 1993 1/2oz photo archive has two issues.  1.  The low resolution and slightly out of focus photos cause the date to expand and the boundary to blur, so it is hard to align accurately.  2.  1993 1/2oz Small Date seems to be quite sparse.  I start to think everything we talked about in this thread (other than the PCGS SD) are large date.

I would appreciate higher resolution pictures from PandaQuest and Birdman.

Generally I would agree differences that need high-resolution overlay to discern are not worthy of being varieties. However this is a part of series where varieties in other sizes are easily identified, so difficulties in identifying the 1/2oz varieties become an interesting challenge for the collectors--A merit badge of some sort.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2013, 08:55:00 PM »
Boy, I thought my quick glance assessment of a Small Date was a good one but now especially with Poconopenn's pics I am really confused.

I would like to look to see if there are other differences too for clues, just for peace of mind:
Does anybody else see the ball on the Temple as being larger on the Large Date, and the surface texture being more "melted" on the Small Date ?

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Offline PandaCollector

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1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2013, 11:19:17 PM »
Here is a photo of a Shanghai 100 Yuan (left) and a Shenyang 100 Yuan (right). The coins are still in their OMPs, and I left some of the pouch markings so that you can see what those look like. Please note not just the size of the numerals, but also their shapes. Also the size and shapes of the Chinese characters. I'll get some hi-res images of 50 Yuan coins posted ASAP (meaning as soon as I have time). The 1993 50 Yuan and 100 Yuan are among the most difficult to distinguish between the varieties, but it's doable. I'm still positive that the coin at the beginning of this topic is a product of the Shenyang Mint, and a Small date. I have to say that the terms Large Date and Small Date are barely applicable to these. They are just Shanghai (S) and Shenyang (Y) in my mind.



Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 11:24:01 PM by PandaCollector »

Offline Obsidian

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1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2013, 11:56:49 PM »
I don't want to argue with the expert but I can definitely see a difference in date size between the two 1/2 oz coins on eBay and the 1 oz coins Peter posted.  However from the one picture we have from Birdman and comparing using the SANDAC overlay and poconopenns comparison it looks like a LD to me.  Guess we need note pictures and then it can be compared more closely to the "SD" that liberty coin is selling.

I have seen NGC mislabel enough of the varieties to not assume they don't make mistakes.

Offline ChineseCoinQuest

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1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 12:07:32 AM »
Hope these photos help too.

I don't know why the photos are on there side??

When I click on the pic it's straight.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:23:24 AM by PandaQuest »

Offline ChineseCoinQuest

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1993 G1/2 SD or LD?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 01:01:16 AM »
Hope these photos help too.

I don't know why the photos came out sideways. Can a moderator somehow rotate photos?

When I click on the pic it's straight.