Author Topic: Coin Storage and Preservation  (Read 41464 times)

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Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2013, 04:29:16 PM »
This situation for coins is getting worse and now spreading to Japan  :scared:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100456949


Offline pandamonium

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2013, 09:36:51 PM »
Most of the pollution is coal plants to make electricity.  We have a coal plant in Florida that produces very little pollution but they are expensive to build.  So the technology is there.  China should sell their older MCC to us, on this forum, to raise capitol to upgrade the coal plants!    Win Win situation (for us anyhow)..........

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2013, 07:19:39 AM »
There was a recent discussion on a different thread that discussed the NGC guarantee on page 2. http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8206.15


I thought it would be helpful to post both the NGC/PCGS guarantees here, including their exceptions (as they relate to storage and preservation) for reference purposes:

NGC:

If, in NGC’s sole opinion, the grade determined under such review is ultimately lower than the grade originally assigned, NGC will offer one of the following three remedies:

NGC shall purchase the coin from the submitter at its determination of the current market value (see below) for an example of that coin which is correctly graded at the original grade level assigned.

NGC shall exchange the coin in question with an equivalent coin at the original higher grade.

NGC shall return the coin to the submitter at the correct lower grade and pay the difference between the current fair market value (see below) of the coin at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such coin.

NGC Exception:

The NGC Coin Grading Guarantee does not apply to coins exhibiting environmental deterioration subsequent to certification. These issues include but are not limited to spotting, hazing, PVC, and corrosion.


PCGS:

If the grade determined under such "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures is lower than the grade originally assigned to the coin, or if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PCGS WILL BE THE SOLE DETERMINER OF THE CURRENT MARKET VALUE OF THE COIN AND THAT CURRENT MARKET VALUE IS DEFINED AS DEALER REPLACEMENT VALUE, I.E. THE PRICE A DEALER WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE THE COIN.

PCGS Exception:

Further, this guarantee shall not apply to coins exhibiting environmental deterioration subsequent to certification, including spotting on modern silver coins.

Coins exhibiting environmental deterioration. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins exhibiting environmental deterioration subsequent to PCGS grading and encapsulation. This deterioration may include, but is not limited to, spotting, hazing, PVC contamination, and corrosion.




If you notice, both exceptions include language "including but not limited to".  Having been drafting, reviewing and interpreting legal documents for a very long time, this language is used as catch all phrase and does not limit either PCGS or NGC to issues that are only enumerated in the exception (i.e., kitchen sink approach)

Exactly how these exceptions are applied in practice is anyone's guess, but the key is that both PCGS and NGC are the sole determiner in the market value associated with the guarantee, regardless of what you paid for the coin or think it is worth.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2013, 02:39:38 PM »
As a quick reminder, while the NGC guarantee is unlimited, the PCGS guarantee is only unlimited for coins in secure plus holders.  For China coins in regular holders the limit is only $1,000.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2013, 04:17:22 PM »
Hi Everybody,

Its been a while since I posted and wanted to give a quick update:

1) I will have a table at the Whitman Coin Expo in Philadelphia in September.  If anyone is around please feel free to stop by and say hi

2) We now have boxes to complement our storage bags.  They are compact, heavy duty, and lined with acid free paper.  They will hold 15 slabs and are available in our store

3) There will be a price increase on the small coin bags in September...not sure of the exact date.  We are moving away from the introductory price, plus we have higher material and manufacturing costs

4) Finally, I have a limited number of "irregular" small coin bags.  The seals are perfect and the zipper is perfect, however they were made with one or two millimeters of extra Intercept, so they don't look perfect for retail sale.  The bags are the same size as the perfect ones, but they look a little wavy due to the extra material.  Actually once you put a slab inside you won't even know the difference.  Price is .50/bag minimum order is 50 bags plus shipping (Domestic only, sorry no International orders). First come first serve.  Please contact me via email from the website.  I don't monitor PMs on the board that often.

thanks,
Chris

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2013, 08:23:33 AM »
I saw this on another chat board I belong to and thought I would post it.  It is amazing the great lengths that someone will take to protect their coins.  I wonder if this person actually created this box ...either way they put alot of thought into it N20:

"If you really wanted to put your coins away for long term storage purposes, you would put your slabbed coins into a metal box with refrigeration fittings on it. Refrigeration fittings or hardware are rated for operating in a vacuum. It would require some customization to be done, in order for refrigeration service ports to be added to the metal box but once you have a sealed box you would be best served by using a vacuum pump to pull the box into a deep vaccum meaning sub 500 microns. You can then break the vacuum by introducing a small volume of dry nitrogen inside the box. The box will still be in a slight vacuum and it will also contain the best desiccant one could hope for "


PS.  I will be at table 112 at the Philly Whitman Coin Expo September 19-21st....all the eastcoasters pls feel free to stop by.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2013, 08:52:42 AM »

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2013, 09:51:55 PM »
This coin appears to have developed white spots on the reverse and some staining along the rim after grading.  It is now far from a perfect 70 vs. the NGC file photo.  Proper storage is key to any collection (whether long-term or short-term)...it does not matter if you are a collector, investor or dealer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHINA-1995-MUNICH-COIN-SHOW-ONE-OZ-SILVER-PANDA-PERFECT-NGC-PF70-ULTRA-CAMEO-/141139219721?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item20dc8d9509

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2755902-008


Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2013, 09:53:06 PM »
This might also deserve a C'MON MAN  N17

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2013, 02:30:39 AM »
Chris,

What do you think about the need for "proper storage" and care for one's gold coins as opposed to one's silver coins? Silver seems much more reactive/corrosive and prone to developing problems over time. In fact, that is one of the reasons I am beginning to divest from my silver MCC purchases of the past few years . . . I'm scared they'll no longer be worth what I paid for them when they develop problems the process for which I cannot reverse. Do you see this happening with gold coins as well?

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2013, 08:46:14 AM »
Every coin should be properly stored.  The same harmful gases that cause a silver coin to tone or spot will also cause a gold coin to develop copper spots or tone.  While the impact may not be the same with gold, since copper spots can be removed, you still encounter a major dilema. Keep in mind that gold contains impurities (mainly silver and copper).  When exposed to harmful gases these impurities will corrode and cause spots.

If the coin is slabbed and graded, then develops copper spots over time due to improper storage, it most likely is not worthy of the same original grade.  You can decide to do nothing which may impact value over time, or resubmit for appearance review or conservation.  The risk you run is you might not get back the same original grade...this is the issue currently facing Birdman in a previous thread.

My website contains alot of helpful information and research.  www.coinarmour.com

Hope this helps.

Also, here is a pic a platinum coin that developed corrosion.  This coin was auctioned by Stacks over the summer.  The appearance in my mind is horrible, and not something that I would choose to bid on.  Eye appeal is everything in coins.
 


Offline fractalfate

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2013, 12:22:28 AM »
Chris-
That's a very interesting platinum example you posted above. Have you seen this phenomenon frequently in platinum before? In my personal experience that coin would qualify as seriously exceptional. Also, have you noted palladium to have similar issues?

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2013, 04:16:45 PM »
This is the first platinum I have seen with corrosion.  The original grade on this coin was a 69.  I have not seen any palladium as of yet but then again I have not looked that hard

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2014, 01:28:32 AM »
I found this policy from PCGS while searching another coin chat board. 

http://www.pcgs.com/Silver-Coins-Spot-Policy/


PCGS POLICY FOR SPOTTING OF MODERN SILVER COINS

The Spot Problem

The December 17, 2012 issue of Coin World had an article describing the Mint's acknowledgement of the "white spots" problem for modern silver coins, especially the .999 American Silver Eagles. In the article it states,

"During her less then 18 months as the U.S. Mint's quality division chief, Stacy Kelley-Scherer has focused her attention on a problem that has plagued the American Silver Eagle silver bullion coin almost since its 1986 inception – spots. So far, a solution that prevents spotting from occurring has eluded Mint officials... Each year of the program, collectors and dealers of the American Eagle silver dollars have reported spots or blotches on the obverse and reverse, on all finishes – bullion, Proof and Uncirculated – and on coins from all Mints. The spotting is random and can appear as a single spot, multiple spots crossing the field and devices, or in large blotches or patches consuming significant portions of a coin's design."

The article illustrated spotted Silver Eagles that had been graded by Numismatic Guaranty Corp. (NGC). But the problem is not limited to NGC or any other grading service. At PCGS, we have received Silver Eagles in sealed Mint boxes (the 500 once green "monster boxes") and opened them to find coins that have already spotted. We have also graded spot-free coins, sent them to customers, and then had them returned to us months later after they had developed spots. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why some coins spot and some don't. But it is clearly something that is happening at the U.S. Mint.

The problem is also not limited to Silver Eagles or coins from the U.S. Mint. We have seen the same spotting problem on modern U.S. silver commemoratives and modern coins from other Mints such as Canada, China, and Australia. Our feeling is that it has something to do with the .999 silver composition, as the earlier pre-1965 90% silver coins seldom spot. However, it could also have something to do with the way the planchets are prepared or washed. We are not sure of the cause of the spotting, and apparently neither are the Mints of the world.

PCGS Modern Silver Coin Spot Policy

When initially grading modern silver issues, PCGS will deduct for spots that are already evident. If coins spot after they are graded by PCGS, they are not covered by the terms of the PCGS grading guarantee. If you would like us to try to remove spots from your coins by "dipping" them, we may be able to do that. It is our experience that spots on proof Silver Eagles can be removed in about 80% of the cases, but spots on Mint State Silver Eagles will only come off approximately 10% to 25% of the time. We launched a Restoration Service on January 2, 2013 and for a fee (grading fee plus 4% of the value) we will remove spots, unattractive toning and other imperfections. However, this fee would be excessive for most modern silver issues so as a service to our customers, we will have a spot removal service for modern silver coins available beginning April 1, 2013. We are only charging a flat fee of $5 for spot removal on modern silver coins. Note that we cannot guarantee whether our spot removal attempt will be successful. If the spots do not come out, we will still reholder you coin in its original grade. It will just be a spotted coin of that grade. We anticipate that a two tier market (spot-free and spotted) will develop, much as it has in the past 10 years or so in the U.S. generic gold market. For further information about our spot removal service, contact PCGS Customer Service after April 1, 2013.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Coin Storage and Preservation
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2014, 09:17:22 AM »
+1!
An important summary of current understanding of white spot.