Topic: SELLING: Gold 1 ounce Pandas !!

[Clark Smith]

Hello Everybody,

We have another group of 1oz gold pandas for sale.  These are all freshly NGC graded.
If you are interested in any of them, please email us and we will give you a very reasonable price.


Complete list further below.  Here are some sample prices:
- 1990 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 68     $1950
- 1990 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 68      $1950
- 1991 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69      $2450
- 1993 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69      $2400
- 1993 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 69     $2850
- 1994 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69      $3000
- 1996 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 69     $3080
- 1997 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69     $2550
 
Complete list:

002  1994 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69    
003  2003 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
004  2005 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
005  2005 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
006  2002 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 68    
008  1991 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69    
009  1990 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 68    
010  1990 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 68    
011  1997 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69    
013  1993 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 69    
014  1993 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 69  
001  2002 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
002  2002 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
003  1993 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 69    
005  1996 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 69    
006  1984 CHINA PANDA  G100Y MS 69    
007  2007 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
008  2007 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
009  2003 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
010  2004 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 68    
011  2006 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
012  2006 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
013  2006 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69  
001  1989 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G10Y MS 69    
002  1983 CHINA PANDA  G100Y MS 68    
003  1995 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 68    
004  1994 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 68    
005  2000 CHINA PANDA FROSTED RING G100Y MS 68    
006  1994 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE G100Y MS 68    
007  2004 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 68    
008  2005 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
009  2007 CHINA PANDA  G500Y MS 69    
010  1998 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE G100Y MS 68  


Thank you,
Clark Smith
www.coinvault.com

[Clark Smith]

SOLD:
1990 small date MS-68
2004 MS-68  (both coins)
1984 MS-69
1993 small date MS-69

All others available at a reasonable price.

Payment by check or bank transfer.  

Thank you,
Clark Smith
www.coinvault.com

[Clark Smith]

Also have:

1995 Gold 100 Yuan, Large Date Panda, NGC MS-69 $4000

[Straitssettlementshop]

Hi Clark,

There are many good coins that i wanted to buy from you and your website but unfortunately you don't receive Paypal and you require wire transfer for international buyer like me. Buyers like us like paypal because it protect our interest and we feel safe too.

Why do you refuse Paypal were you banned by Paypal ?

Thanks.

[KeyDate1/2ozPandas]

I can't speak for Clark, but I can tell you why I don't accept PayPal:

1) For high volume coin sellers (+$10K/month on PayPal) PayPal holds back 6%-15% of the money received for 90 days.  This hold back is to protect them in case the item doesn't arrive or the seller later claims the charge on their credit card was not them, etc.  Even if you have never had a single chargeback with PayPal or negative feedback on eBay in the last 10 years, they still insist on this hold back.  Also, even after the buyer has left positive feedback the hold back stays in place for 90 days.  I have a 6% hold back on my account, which is average a 5 figure hold back amount during the course of the year, because I do take paypal from buyers that I trust and have done business with for years in China.  Having this large hold back ties up capital that can't be reinvested and in some cases exceeds the profit from the sale.  Also a minor point, for every paypal transaction I have to add two additional transactions in my accounting system to keep track of the holdback and release.

2) For buyers that I have never done business with or those that don't have long track record of honest transactions, PayPal is very risky because the buyer has 60 days to dispute a delivery, charge on their credit card or quality of a coin and the moment the buyer does so, PayPal will take the money out of your  account immediately and then give you 10 days to dispute the buyers claim (guilty until proven innocent).  While this hasn't happened to me, it has happened to many honest sellers on eBay, in fact I have helped two sellers in the past 3 weeks with chargeback from china, one happened last night and seller was so angry that he will never ship to China again.  The other seller received a charge back for nondelivery because the USPS system showed it only arriving at customs, however the china EMS tracking showed it was delivered to the buyer, once he showed PayPal the proof of delivery they only offered to release only half of the money and told the sell take it or leave it.  The best way to avoid the PayPal juridical system is to avoid them completely for non trusted buyers. 

3) The fees for a PayPal transaction is 3.9% for international payments, while this charge is passed to the buyer in full, it is a large insurance fee for the buyer to pay for a little extra protection, it basically assumes 1 in 25 transactions with on-line sellers will be problematic.  I have done several thousand transactions on eBay with PayPal and PayPal direct and only once did I need buyer protection for a $50 olive garden gift card that never arrived.   

In summary, PayPal is simply too punitive for dealers who operate on tight margins and high volumes, in almost every case it is in my best interest to sell for a little less to buyer that can pay with a check/wire than deal with all the accounting and administrative hassles of PayPal. 

For collectors selling a few items here and there, Paypal is an excellent platform as long as you ALWAYS get signature confirmation for any package over $250 and delivery confirmation for packages over $10.

Arif 

[SANDAC]

Thank you for sharing, that was extremely informative.

I tally up my transaction with Clark this year, and it is over $20K.  I will say I'm 100% delighted with him.  His price is good because he doesn't have to deal with the overhead of Paypal.  I pay by check and it takes time for the check to clear and registered mail takes longer, but I'm completely comfortable waiting a bit with a trusted dealer like Clark Smith.

[KeyDate1/2ozPandas]

I do business with Clark regularly, including buying a couple 1oz from him in this tread with a wire transfer.  No concerns sending him a check or wire.

Arif

[Obsidian]

I have also dealt with Clark Smith on a number of transactions.  I would have no real concerns sending him a check or wire transfer.  I have sent him rather large checks in the past.

[Yandy1990]

Hi Clark,

There are many good coins that i wanted to buy from you and your website but unfortunately you don't receive Paypal and you require wire transfer for international buyer like me. Buyers like us like paypal because it protect our interest and we feel safe too.

Why do you refuse Paypal were you banned by Paypal ?

Thanks.

I have bought coins from Clark and I'm having a pending transaction with him on a palladium coin now, all using check. I have not had any problem. Trusted seller.
Andy

[Straitssettlementshop]

Once upon a time Jim Orcholski from J&T Coins LCC was also a good and trust worthy seller too.

I'm sure Clark Smith is an honest and great seller. I dont mean to say that Clark Smith will be like him one day. All of you that sent check to Clark Smith for the purchase of coins are americans isn't it ? If there is any dispute you could always drive your car or by flight to pay Clark Smith a visit to sort things out.

How many of you from other country bought gold coins from Clark by sending check or wire transfer ? I could assume there is NONE ! Clark Smith is selling Chinese gold and silver coins and you should expect buyers from China, Asia to buy from him. International buyers need assurance and must feel safe before a deal could be reach there is where Paypal come into the picture.

[Straitssettlementshop]

I can't speak for Clark, but I can tell you why I don't accept PayPal:

1) For high volume coin sellers (+$10K/month on PayPal) PayPal holds back 6%-15% of the money received for 90 days.  This hold back is to protect them in case the item doesn't arrive or the seller later claims the charge on their credit card was not them, etc.  Even if you have never had a single chargeback with PayPal or negative feedback on eBay in the last 10 years, they still insist on this hold back.  Also, even after the buyer has left positive feedback the hold back stays in place for 90 days.  I have a 6% hold back on my account, which is average a 5 figure hold back amount during the course of the year, because I do take paypal from buyers that I trust and have done business with for years in China.  Having this large hold back ties up capital that can't be reinvested and in some cases exceeds the profit from the sale.  Also a minor point, for every paypal transaction I have to add two additional transactions in my accounting system to keep track of the holdback and release.

2) For buyers that I have never done business with or those that don't have long track record of honest transactions, PayPal is very risky because the buyer has 60 days to dispute a delivery, charge on their credit card or quality of a coin and the moment the buyer does so, PayPal will take the money out of your  account immediately and then give you 10 days to dispute the buyers claim (guilty until proven innocent).  While this hasn't happened to me, it has happened to many honest sellers on eBay, in fact I have helped two sellers in the past 3 weeks with chargeback from china, one happened last night and seller was so angry that he will never ship to China again.  The other seller received a charge back for nondelivery because the USPS system showed it only arriving at customs, however the china EMS tracking showed it was delivered to the buyer, once he showed PayPal the proof of delivery they only offered to release only half of the money and told the sell take it or leave it.  The best way to avoid the PayPal juridical system is to avoid them completely for non trusted buyers. 

3) The fees for a PayPal transaction is 3.9% for international payments, while this charge is passed to the buyer in full, it is a large insurance fee for the buyer to pay for a little extra protection, it basically assumes 1 in 25 transactions with on-line sellers will be problematic.  I have done several thousand transactions on eBay with PayPal and PayPal direct and only once did I need buyer protection for a $50 olive garden gift card that never arrived.   

In summary, PayPal is simply too punitive for dealers who operate on tight margins and high volumes, in almost every case it is in my best interest to sell for a little less to buyer that can pay with a check/wire than deal with all the accounting and administrative hassles of PayPal. 

For collectors selling a few items here and there, Paypal is an excellent platform as long as you ALWAYS get signature confirmation for any package over $250 and delivery confirmation for packages over $10.

Arif 

Arif,
Many thanks for sharing from a seller point of view. I would also like to share my experience with you as a dealer too and we could compare notes. I have sold many MCC to some of the buyers here in this CCF forum too some are americans and some are from China, Germany, Italy and Asia. And also many dealings on Ebay as well.

I have never come across Paypal need to hold back my payment and each transaction cost between USD2000 to USD8500.00 and i have instant "cash status" in my Paypal that mean i could transfer the amount into my bank account immediately.

There is one american from this forum even wired transfer to me for USD6180.00 to my Standard Chartered Bank account for the purchase of one single chinese gold coin. If he is reading this i'm sure he know that i'm refering to him.

If Clark Smith insist on payment method by check or wire transfer he is only limited to "domestic" business only.


Regards,
SSS

[Birdman]

I have purchased many coins from Clark with no problems.  I trust him.   
 

[Straitssettlementshop]

Arif,
Many thanks for sharing from a seller point of view. I would also like to share my experience with you as a dealer too and we could compare notes. I have sold many MCC to some of the buyers here in this CCF forum too some are americans and some are from China, Germany, Italy and Asia. And also many dealings on Ebay as well.

I have never come across Paypal need to hold back my payment and each transaction cost between USD2000 to USD8500.00 and i have instant "cash status" in my Paypal that mean i could transfer the amount into my bank account immediately.

There is one american from this forum even wired transfer to me for USD6180.00 to my Standard Chartered Bank account for the purchase of one single chinese gold coin. If he is reading this i'm sure he know that i'm refering to him.

If Clark Smith insist on payment method by check or wire transfer he is only limited to "domestic" business only.


Regards,
SSS

By the way I'm an MCC dealer from Malaysia if you wonder where I'm from.

[Honus]

Unfortunately, I'm entirely with Arif on this one.  I'm an eBay PowerSeller with more than 6000 transactions, but I won't accept PayPal for international shipments.   PayPal provides sellers with very little help or recourse in the case of credit card chargebacks, their Seller Protection does not protect against buyer claims of "significantly not as described", even if the buyer is only making the claim in an attempt to get the item for free, and here's the biggie....without a recipient signature, that PayPal can verify online, they consider the item undelivered.  So if the postal carrier in the destination country either neglects to get the signature, or gets it but the system fails to capture or upload the information for viewing, it's as if the item never got there at all.  When that happens, all the buyer has to do is tell PayPal they never got it - even if they have it in their hands - and the seller's money is gone.  And if there's a delay in customs, forget it, the money is gone.   The buyer can claim "not delivered" while the item is sitting in customs, and if it's in customs delay for more then a week, PayPal will refund the buyer's payment.   Then when the item comes out of customs, the buyer has the item AND their money - PayPal does not re-collect the buyer's payment just because it was finally delivered.  I'm sure I'm missing a lot of great customers by not shipping Internationally, but I know with certainty I'm also avoiding ulcers and sleepless nights as well as financial loss.   PayPal is great for buyers, but I honestly believe that they consider sellers to be disposable.

As for Clark specifically, I've also bought from him by both wire transfer and personal check.

[Straitssettlementshop]

With the latest Seller Protection on eBay, seller responsible until customs at destination and buyer responsible for custom clearance in their respective country. Buyer unable to file a claim against the seller if the package is on hold with the custom. This is the additional plus point for seller protection.