Author Topic: NGC pagoda article  (Read 10880 times)

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Offline pandamonium

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NGC pagoda article
« on: December 11, 2012, 11:54:11 AM »
NGC posted the pagoda article today.  Brief but will be read by most coin dealers/collectors world wide.  Like them or not, they are a very low mintage rare MCC.  Will this bring demand and price back?.............



http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=3071

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 03:05:08 PM »
"All four medals feature the same obverse design shown on the right."

Does this mean the medals with broken line are fake?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 03:21:49 PM »
NGC still has problem in this pagoda set. The reverse of this set may have the same design, but definitely has some very minor and subtle differences. The broken line is just one of the differences.

Offline shibaji

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 06:34:20 PM »
Ain't that an useless article! :-/

Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 10:10:56 PM »
About the same as the goldfish article.  At least it makes the pagodas official and there are 4 types.  Maybe this will stop the confusion of real silver vs silver plate.  The early 1980's silver MCC did not always have accurate records.   I like the early silvers because the mintages will be much lower than planned and there could be varieties.  Many are still affordable................ 

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 10:42:16 PM »
Many are still affordable................ 
In fact I used this lull to bid and win 2 PF68 Pagoda at little over $300 each.  As well as a gilt pagoda and gilt goldfish (lowballed those two, didn't expect to win) from BoyBlueJay. 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 10:57:27 PM »
Two PF 68 pagodas for $300 each?  A steal.  Was it the recent ebay sale in Hong Kong?  The silver pagoda is the only MCC that sold for high and dropped to low price due to misunderstandings, that I know of.  From a set of PF 69 at $25k to low of about $5k, today.  It is still tiny mintage and based on China's famous pagoda buildings so I think the market will return.  I lowballed Jay on a 1996 PF 69 1/2 oz Beijing International Expo and won it!   Once in awhile a early 1980's silver OMP will sell for about $50 range. Last one was a 1984 High Jumper.  Doesn't get any cheaper than that........

Offline Hippanda

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 11:10:21 PM »
How do you verify a set was ever sold for $25,000?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 11:23:41 PM »
Was it the recent ebay sale in Hong Kong? 
It is yus18 from Hong Kong.  Never did business with him before.  Won them on Dec 5, paid within 24 hours, he shipped it via EMS and I received them Dec 10.  That was fast, and I am delighted with the condition of the coins.

BTW, the pagoda population has flatlined since 7/29/2012.  Its population finally increased by one set on 12/10/2012, and it is this set, all PF68.  I'm tracking the grade of the new addition.  If we are scraping the bottom of the barrel of the surviving population, I expect their grade to decline.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 11:36:20 PM »
Hipanda, ebay seller cash360 sold the set last year $25,000 and I spoke to him by phone.  He has faith in pagodas and owns more.  Did not want to give out his name but gotta back up my claim.  The price drop hit all MCC last year and most rare MCC are back up in price but not the pagodas due to debate here on CCF.  Most sellers refer to articles here for loss of price and interest.  Now the argument is officially over.  Will price and demand return?  SANDAC, I saw his auction and you should have bought all of them.  I think you bought them at absolute bottom.  The lowest price PF 68 that I have seen on ebay were $800 each in the US.  No matter what the opinion, you cannot change the mintage of 260 and previous high prices.  How can they not go up?......................

Offline Hippanda

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 11:41:18 PM »
I wouldn't pay $300 for pagodas in 68.

But then, lots of people passed at them at that price, and near prices.

I still think people dont know if they have solid sterling, or plated specimens. NGC didn't know, and I'm not certain they know, still.

How do you know, what you are buying?  I'd recommend everyone carefully read what Poconopenn has said all along, and continues to say.

Pandamonium, its pretty obvious you have an interest in pagodas going higher.  You obviously own a set, or more, to make you such a relentless cheerleader for them. Great.  Good luck.  I hope yours turn out to be solid sterling at least, and not the plated $200 set. Its clear that the victim of the $25,00 sale either got a solid set, at the highest premium ever recorded , or duped and overpaid by a record amount.

Again, I hope your set/s is/are solid. I'd recommend if you are serious you have Poconopenn look at it.  Again, good luck.

(Do you know?)


« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:48:13 PM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 12:08:38 AM »
NGC has the equipment to tell the content of the coins.  Can't we trust their opinion?  Are other graded MCC plate and not real silver?  Think about it.  If the pagodas are not real silver and graded then all MCC are not real and falsely graded.  Does that make any sense?  No.  So the argument of pagodas metal content are over.  Maybe a variety?  The coin metal content is labled, like all coins are.  Does this make sense?  Real silver graded pagodas are just that, real silver graded pagodas.   I do not own a full PF 69 set.  I like them because they are undervalued.   I am always looking for the best MCC buy for the price and it is not the newer varieties that get hot, sell for alot then drop in price. That is chasing a quick buck.  So my attention is to the early 1980's silvers that have not been researched for varieties or actual mintage.  Eventually the collectors will pay attention to them and price will increase.   Again, real graded silver pagodas are real graded silver pagodas and not to be confused w/ plate, tin hats, etc.....  NGC knows what they are doing or they would not be in business.  I still do not understand your argument against them........

Offline comeaux

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 12:10:43 AM »
Its clear that the victim of the $25,000 sale either got a solid set, at the highest premium ever recorded , or duped and overpaid by a record amount.
the buyer and seller are the same person in which no money ever changed hands.  :scared:

Offline Obsidian

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 12:13:19 AM »
Hipanda, ebay seller cash360 sold the set last year $25,000 and I spoke to him by phone.  He has faith in pagodas and owns more.

I can also confirm this.  It was around July of 2011.  Around this time I was in talks with cash360 about this same set.  He was talking a 15-20k price to me.  This was shortly after Badon's article on Pagodas was posted and the hype was in full swing.  Luckily I was unwilling to put that much money into those coins.  The whole experience has made me somewhat anti-pagoda.  Even if they are someday worth that much who knows how long it could take...

the buyer and seller are the same person in which no money ever changed hands.  :scared:

The set was sold to someone on this forum.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 12:15:33 AM by Obsidian »

Offline Hippanda

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Re: NGC pagoda article
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 12:15:53 AM »
.  I still do not understand your argument against them........
That is clear.
Maybe you might discuss with Poconopenn, if I cannot make it clear to you.

I'll try:

Only recently has NGC realized there are plated versions. That means for ALL previously graded sets, they are chancey, if they are solid sterling, or cheap plated.  Who knows?  Poconopenn still believes as of today, NGC may be in error.
I have sided with Poconopenn from the beginning of the controversy on this, for many reasons.

And no, NGC's method of detecting plated coins vs solid sterling may not work with clad and minted versions.  Plating may be too thick with heavy clad, to tell the difference by a monitor.  Please feel free to go back and review Poconopenn's earlier posts,  this was all covered.

But I think you choose to ignore it because you want them all to be real solid, and valuable. Fine. Good luck, like I said.


"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius