Author Topic: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............  (Read 11458 times)

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joeman

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F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« on: December 08, 2012, 06:56:12 PM »
  :001_rolleyes: WILL SELL THREE COINS AND THAT IS IT 2780533-022, 023, 026 buyer can choose NEED I POST MORE PICTURES ??  :blush:  ANYWAY as everyone knows ,my coins are labeled as 2001d   750 usd ,pay pal gift or add 3.5% for regular pay pal ,I think it is a bargain, if you want the coin relabeled and conserved I will do it for you $40usd (you must pay for the coin and be prepared to wait 1 month apx thanks for looking! 

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 08:36:16 PM »
1 sold thank you!!

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 05:21:11 PM »
All 3 sold thank you everyone !!

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 06:53:53 PM »
i want every member know about how this seller , joeman on CCF , jc88888888 on SS   treated me !

6 december i payed invoice  
7 december he send me NGC#'s

"Hi I made a mistake on the invoice i put down on line 2 1982 1/10 it is in fact a 1984 as agreed ,I dont even have a 1982 in ms69:)

here are the cert #,s once you approve them I will ship Asap

2001d  2780533-023
1/10
2778341-014 1984
2780533-033 1985
2779268-033 2007
2009
2777569-025
2777569-024
2777569-019
2777569-023
2777569-020

Regards joe"

later on silverstakers and CCF was post about 01-D varieties

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.msg43286#msg43286

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-34387-2001d-small-d-variety.html

then he realize that last 01-D's he has a small D

08 december he make this post selling coin with same ngs number he sent to me.

This monday he send me this email

Hi Wang Xiao Yi ,I shipped your coins today,Tracking # EI 796111804 US  they will be there tomorrow ,We have a slight problem ,my wife oversold the 2001D silver panda ,I did not have 1 to ship you ,I DO HAVE 10 at NGC right now, if you would be so kind as to wait i will ship you as soon as they arrive(apx 3 weeks) if not then no porblem, I can refund you the 130 + 1.75% paypal fee immediately ,sorry about the inconvenience ,Regard,s Joe  

after he said to me what this number was wrongly sent by his wife ...

i decide to call him

"F*** off you stupid chinese , what the f*** you want ? that is your f***ing name Artak ? i have a 50 guys now in Brooklyn NY , you want me to call them ???
i said why you so rude to me ? "f*** off i dont care , i ll exposure in every board im ..."


We all working in same market i never saw US dealers treat chinese dealers like this !Never !








« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 12:36:10 AM by Panda Halves »

Offline GDG's

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 07:14:23 PM »
Artak (Shanghai Coins),

I know you now live in China and you are not Chinese. I think race has little to do with those who collect Chinese coins. I have dealt with you before and have had no problems. Please let us not use the CCF to resolve every problem between CCF members. Xu Hongs dilemma was a bit different in that it involved several hundred thousand dollars and could have an impact on many members. I believe your problem is of such low amount that you should keep it between yourself and the party involved. We don't want the CCF to devolve into something it was never intended to be. I hope you understand what I say. I wish you good luck. GDG

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 09:19:26 PM »
Artak (Shanghai Coins),

I know you now live in China and you are not Chinese. I think race has little to do with those who collect Chinese coins. I have dealt with you before and have had no problems. Please let us not use the CCF to resolve every problem between CCF members. Xu Hongs dilemma was a bit different in that it involved several hundred thousand dollars and could have an impact on many members. I believe your problem is of such low amount that you should keep it between yourself and the party involved. We don't want the CCF to devolve into something it was never intended to be. I hope you understand what I say. I wish you good luck. GDG

Well said.     :thumbup:

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 09:30:07 PM »
Shanghai,

Please keep the language "suitable for children".     N39

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 10:12:11 PM »
I have not traded with either party, however, I am appreciative of hearing feedback such as this. I'm not trying to pass judgment against a member with whom I've never dealt . . . again, we don't know the other side of the story. Just saying that if what Artak describes is the truth, these deceptive tactics would earn the seller a 'forever ban' from my trading partner list.

Frankly, I cannot believe that one would want this type of feedback to be censored or dealt with via PM. If a seller ever promised me a specific coin by sending me the cert #, we agreed upon the deal, I paid, and then said seller pretended as if it were a mistake just because they realized it was a higher value coin that originally thought, I would NEVER deal with that member again, and furthermore, would make sure EVERYONE knew about this broken contract. A deal agreed upon and paid for is a deal. That's that.

What worries me is that there seems to be, lately, way too many unhappy buyers/sellers here at CCF. The prospect of making/losing money is corrupting the judgment and morals of many members here. I am going to be very careful about whom I deal with on this forum, as it appears that there are several members with whom it is dangerous to transact.


Offline Panda Halves

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 12:39:13 AM »
Please keep in mind this is a family friendly forum.
Watch the language please.

Offline NBM

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 12:49:07 AM »
Which is more obscene quoted text or the betrayal of trust?
Most places I've been one is over looked, the other can be fatal.

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 01:15:19 AM »
I dont want to make fight or argument with Joe , No !
I want he apologize for all bad rude words he said to me !

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 03:34:07 AM »
I also agree this is unacceptable behavior.  I have dealt with Shanghai coins on several occasions with no problem.  I do appreciate knowing which sellers are causing problems.  It is likely that nothing would have ever been posted if the response from Joeman had not been so extreme.

Being disrespectful to others is never appropriate.  Not to mention the poor way the coin was dealt with.

Since you likely will never get an apology from Joeman, I wish you more respect from future dealings with Dealers and collectors alike.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 03:36:37 AM by Obsidian »

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 04:42:41 AM »
Thanks Obsidian and for all members who supports me !




joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »
Well said.     :thumbup:
Ok this is my only post on this subject : here are the facts
#1 I will stand on my 400+ positive feedback on e bay ,and dozens of delighted customers on Silver Stackers and Pandaxe, which Im sure may members of both those boards will attest too
#2 here is what happened:
Shanghai coins wanted to buy coins from me ,including a 2001D for 130usd thats right 130 usd for a ms69 NGC coin NOW LETS KEEP IN MIND , we entered into these negotiations NO LESS THAN 3 weeks before anyone knew about the 2001 small D,S existance ,since no one even new about it ,shanghai coin clearly knew what he was buying a regular 2001d ms69 for 130 usd ,again weeks before any 2001 small d was discovered . now we finally get to a deal , he takes over 10 days to pay for said deal.he pays and ask,s me for cert# ,s , lets keep in mind again he knows what he bought a regular 2001D for 130 usd ,so I am at work and I ask my wife to send me the certs on a stack of coins in my"closet" she sends them to me and sends me the wrong cert namely a 2001 sd labeled as regular. she picked the coin off the wrong stack , Let me go back one more time ,we are talking about a 130 usd ms 69 Regular 2001d that the buyer CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE WAS BUYING!, he gets the wrong cert from me inadvertently and says to himself JACKPOT:), now i relize the error and send him an email saying a mistake was made and you where sent the wrong cert, He proceeds to blow up my cell phone long distance  4 times in an hour demanding I ship him the coin.which of course I wont do as he knows darn well what he bought.
here is what i offered :1) I would refund the full amount for the 2001 d ,130 usd + 1.75 pay pal fee which we had agreed to. #2 send him a ms69 2001 large d with the new designation when i got it back from NGC ,or #3  Send me back all the coins (which he will be receiving today shipped express signature required insured)  and I will gladly refund him in FULL.
This is the truth this is what happened and he and I both know it, I have all the supporting e mails and PM,s documenting this transaction ,initiated and took place LONG before the small D was discovered,
AS far as those slanderous remarks ,they where never made by me....... total fabrication
Since I am not on trial here and could care less what this individual says about me ,I will not entertain this garbage for 1 more minute, I just have to stand upon my stellar reputation ,and vow never to do business with this guy again .....
If he wants to send back all the coins full refund will be made and proof posted here ,if he want to keep the coins shipped partial refund for the 2001d will be made ,END OF DISCUSSION FOR ME
   

 

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 11:02:04 AM »
Oh and just one more comment , since I lived in China for 6 years (Shantou ), and my wife is Chinese and my twin girls are at least 1/2 chinese:) and I have dozen,s of friends that are Chinese here in the US and in China ,I sincerely doubt i would be making such comments about Chinese folks........  last post ,just forgot to include this tidbit

Offline NBM

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 12:39:49 PM »
Thank you Joe for responding, as always there are 2 sides to a disagreement and those who weren't there should be careful to not judge.
I gave you an applaud for your response.

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 01:07:29 PM »
>>> and says to himself JACKPOT<<<

 ;)


kind regards

p.s.: artak .... to place these words joeman was a shot in the knee, agree?

"F*** off you stupid chinese , what the f*** you want ? that is your f***ing name Artak ? i have a 50 guys now in Brooklyn NY , you want me to call them ???
i said why you so rude to me ? "f*** off i dont care , i ll exposure in every board im ..."
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 01:12:28 PM by wg »

Offline shibaji

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 02:35:32 PM »
I do not understand what is the big deal here, other than the badmouthing part. People make mistakes, and even if the cert # was not mistake, I can guarantee you any seller you find under this condition will do something similar (may be more explicit - saying that the value of the coin changed, due to attribute change). A deal is a deal when all attributes are same. Clearly, I see sour grapes effect in buyer's part here - otherwise someone will not cling to a cert #. How many times all of you have purchased something (clothes/crafts/coins/etc) and returned for various reasons ? I even see people all around buying a dress for party and then returning - where are the ethics ? If all sellers decided not to accept such returns I wonder where USA would be today! Interestingly, you will not find such practices in Asia

Anyway, I side 100% with Joe in this regard - but if he indeed said bad things (which I doubt) - then he should certainly apologize - other than that - the buyer's case does not even stand in this case.

My 2 cents.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 04:08:34 PM »
I'm here to learn, and I've learned there is a school of thought that says a deal is not a deal until payment is received AND the item is shipped.  Here is a possible test scenerio for that kind of deal:  We know joeman has sold 3 small D at $750 each a day or two ago.  He may or may not have received the payment, and probably have not shipped the items yet.  We also know silverstar1 has a small D on eBay that is $455 right now.  So if silverstar1's bid price shoot up to $1000 and joeman hasn't shipped his coins, yet.  Is it reasonable for joeman to back out of the deal and ask for $1000?

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 04:21:33 PM »
 We know joeman has sold 3 small D at $750 each a day or two ago.  

Correction: We know no such thing. Unless you are seeing such a sale and proceeds and have talked with buyers yourself. We have a sellers word of sales and the price, on a non- public /non- auction.
Sorry to get specific, seller just may have sold as described. But maybe not, that's why I hate that type of selling "format"- its ripe for potential abuse.

In this business I don't trust my even brother's word.
It's a business of shills, false bids, false sales to pump prices, etc.

Ignore at your own risk.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:24:33 PM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2012, 04:23:16 PM »
In your hypothetical situation . . . no, that decision would be unethical/unreasonable/dishonorable if he has already agreed to sell for $750 (and even more so if he had already received payment).

I'm here to learn, and I've learned there is a school of thought that says a deal is not a deal until payment is received AND the item is shipped.  Here is a possible test scenerio for that kind of deal:  We know joeman has sold 3 small D at $750 each a day or two ago.  He may or may not have received the payment, and probably have not shipped the items yet.  We also know silverstar1 has a small D on eBay that is $455 right now.  So if silverstar1's bid price shoot up to $1000 and joeman hasn't shipped his coins, yet.  Is it reasonable for joeman to back out of the deal and ask for $1000?

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2012, 04:23:23 PM »
I'm here to learn, and I've learned there is a school of thought that says a deal is not a deal until payment is received AND the item is shipped.  Here is a possible test scenerio for that kind of deal:  We know joeman has sold 3 small D at $750 each a day or two ago.  He may or may not have received the payment, and probably have not shipped the items yet.  We also know silverstar1 has a small D on eBay that is $455 right now.  So if silverstar1's bid price shoot up to $1000 and joeman hasn't shipped his coins, yet.  Is it reasonable for joeman to back out of the deal and ask for $1000?

It is totally unreasonable Sandac , FYI all 2001 small d sold on this forum by me @ 750 each ,have been shipped free of charge overnight express ,signature required , insured ,and tracking was supplied to buyers ......,so i am hoping you are not implying that I would do something like that #1 and #2 your post has no relevance IMHO, Shanghai coins CLEARLY PURCHASED a 2001d regular ms69 ngc for 130usd WEEKS BEFORE THE EXISTANCE OF THE SMALL DATE WAS KNOWN, i supplied him with the wrong cert # and he has tried unsuccessfully to get a totally different coin from me than he agreed to purchase or that he paid for !again he paid 130 usd specifically for a 2001d ms69 ngc, long before the existence of the small d was known , was I not clear ??   I have never and I repeat never reneged on a deal.......... I come from the school of thought you make a deal and stick to it. In the case of shanghai coins he is trying to get something he clearly did not pay for thats all.............

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2012, 04:25:44 PM »
It is totally unreasonable Sandac , FYI all 2001 small d sold on this forum by me @ 750 each ,have been shipped free of charge overnight express ,signature required , insured ,and tracking was supplied to buyers ......,so i am hoping you are not implying that I would do something like that #1 and #2 your post has no relevance IMHO, Shanghai coins CLEARLY PURCHASED a 2001d regular ms69 ngc for 130usd WEEKS BEFORE THE EXISTANCE OF THE SMALL DATE WAS KNOWN, i supplied him with the wrong cert # and he has tried unsuccessfully to get a totally different coin from me than he agreed to purchase or that he paid for !again he paid 130 usd specifically for a 2001d ms69 ngc, long before the existence of the small d was known , was I not clear ??   I have never and I repeat never reneged on a deal.......... I come from the school of thought you make a deal and stick to it. In the case of shanghai coins he is trying to get something he clearly did not pay for thats all.............

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2012, 04:27:47 PM »
I'm here to learn, and I've learned there is a school of thought that says a deal is not a deal until payment is received AND the item is shipped.  Here is a possible test scenerio for that kind of deal:  We know joeman has sold 3 small D at $750 each a day or two ago.  He may or may not have received the payment, and probably have not shipped the items yet.  We also know silverstar1 has a small D on eBay that is $455 right now.  So if silverstar1's bid price shoot up to $1000 and joeman hasn't shipped his coins, yet.  Is it reasonable for joeman to back out of the deal and ask for $1000?

I don't believe it would be a good or fair practice to back out of a deal in the situation you outlined above.  I believe that once a price is negotiated and especially if money has been sent the deal is a deal.  I also believe that if I make a deal and give a certification number or recieve a certification number.  I should expect to send / recieve that number.

I am not here to argue whether Joe made a mistake or not but there is a pretty clear timeline that shows he very easily could have struck a deal with Shanghai Coins, given him a serial number, realized that coin was an apparent rare variety and backed out of the deal.   In the end there is no way as a buyer to prove this.

You will find on silverstackers this post from Joe made on December 6th:
"Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez i stole your pic and posted it on another site ,the boys on ccf are paranoid:):)
here is a couple graded before the new label
2780533-023
2780533-022   I had a whole sheet small d,s graded them and sold them ,some of my customers are holding those Small d,s ...............................................enjoy"

He also made a post on this forum about selling several of these coins for < $150.  I would guess the coin that he was planning on selling to Shanghai Coins was from this sheet as he posted the certification number on Silver stackers and emailed the number to Shanghai Coins.  Then a day later he comes back and says the coins were "oversold".

Anyway, i'm sure this kind of stuff happens whether by mistake or intentionally.  I am quite sure Joe is a dealer that isn't going to intentionally rip someone off.  This situation was definitely a "grey" area.

As to what was said in the phone call, who knows.  It seems a little out there for Artak to have made all that up.  However, he may be misquoting Joe to some degree as it was a phone conversation.  Like most situations like this, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.  Moving on.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2012, 04:28:50 PM »
SANDAC:

I didn't know you are good at "opening up a can of worms".

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 04:29:47 PM »
Just curious-

Any members here who want to say
they have been a buyer of these 2001 Small Date this week?


For that matter, any members want to come
forward to say they were buyers of pagoda sets at prices of over $20,000?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 04:39:06 PM »
Just curious-

Any members here who want to say
they have been a buyer of these 2001 Small Date this week?


For that matter, any members want to come
forward to say they were buyers of pagoda sets at prices of over $20,000?

Holy Smoke .... another can of worms being opened !!!      :scared:

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 04:44:35 PM »
I just want to offer "a word of caution" to those who are willing to pay $1,000 ...or $750 ... or whatever you think that "small-D" is worth .... to get a hold of one.

Remember what poconopenn said earlier, though he believes they are a genuine variety, these small-D may not be as rare as you would think. He even posted pictures of "sheets" for sale.

"Train is leaving the station, so I have to jump on this one?" ...... maybe not. There's another one coming soon. 

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2012, 04:46:01 PM »
I don't believe it would be a good or fair practice to back out of a deal in the situation you outlined above.  I believe that once a price is negotiated and especially if money has been sent the deal is a deal.  I also believe that if I make a deal and give a certification number or recieve a certification number.  I should expect to send / recieve that number.

I am not here to argue whether Joe made a mistake or not but there is a pretty clear timeline that shows he very easily could have struck a deal with Shanghai Coins, given him a serial number, realized that coin was an apparent rare variety and backed out of the deal.   In the end there is no way as a buyer to prove this.

You will find on silverstackers this post from Joe made on December 6th:
"Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez i stole your pic and posted it on another site ,the boys on ccf are paranoid:):)
here is a couple graded before the new label
2780533-023
2780533-022   I had a whole sheet small d,s graded them and sold them ,some of my customers are holding those Small d,s ...............................................enjoy"

He also made a post on this forum about selling several of these coins for < $150.  I would guess the coin that he was planning on selling to Shanghai Coins was from this sheet as he posted the certification number on Silver stackers and emailed the number to Shanghai Coins.  Then a day later he comes back and says the coins were "oversold".

Anyway, i'm sure this kind of stuff happens whether by mistake or intentionally.  I am quite sure Joe is a dealer that isn't going to intentionally rip someone off.  This situation was definitely a "grey" area.

As to what was said in the phone call, who knows.  It seems a little out there for Artak to have made all that up.  However, he may be misquoting Joe to some degree as it was a phone conversation.  Like most situations like this, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.  Moving on.
THERE IS AN OLD SAYING  'YOU JUST CANT FIX STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!I HOPE THIS PUTS THIS TO REST EXCHANGE AND DEAL WELL BEFORE 2001 SMALL D EXISTANCE
2012-11-27 5:19 pm
88shanghaicoins
Member
From:: Shanghai , China
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 44
jc888888888 wrote:
88shanghaicoins wrote:
jc888888888 wrote:
HAVE 2001 D ,2011 GOLD EXCHANGE,have a bunch of stuff coming ,but ngc is painfully slow 2004 icbc ,2010 capitol markets ,95ld ,96 ,97 1/2 oz panda ,2013 snakes fans and blossums ,2012 beijing expo ,2004 panda,2005 panda . lots of gold 1/10 panda,s, , 2007, 2009 ,1984 1985 ,1997 auspicious matters, all in ms69 gold I am not giving away :) if I have good cost I can deal a little ,but i am not selling graded gold around spot, they are on fire on e bay
i would like to take all 01-d , 2011 gold exchange, 2004 icbc, 2010 capital , 2012 snake , 12 beijing expo , 04 panda and gold 1/10 pandas . i can buy a big lot , many coins in 1 purchase . give me prices and what time you ll get them from NGC ?
I have 2001d 5 pcs  135usd  
          2011 gold exchange  6 pcs with box and coa 130usd   both ms69
          
          1/10 gold ms69
          2007  295usd   2pcs
          2009  260 usd   5 pcs
           1984  300 usd  2 pcs
           1985  300usd   1pc
           1997 auspisious matters 245  2pcs
all the rest are in grading and i cant establish prices till i see grades,prices are firm ,thanks Regards Joe
hi Joe , finally o sold my 85 panda .
i can offer
01-D 2x135 270
11x1 130
1/10
84x2 275
85x1 275
00x1 405
07x1 275
09x2 260
total 2150 + shipping
shipping to US , NY , same address
regards

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 04:49:38 PM »
IMHO, Shanghai coins CLEARLY PURCHASED a 2001d regular ms69 ngc for 130usd WEEKS BEFORE THE EXISTANCE OF THE SMALL DATE WAS KNOWN, i supplied him with the wrong cert # and he has tried unsuccessfully to get a totally different coin from me than he agreed to purchase or that he paid for !again he paid 130 usd specifically for a 2001d ms69 ngc, long before the existence of the small d was known , was I not clear ??   I have never and I repeat never reneged on a deal.......... I come from the school of thought you make a deal and stick to it. In the case of shanghai coins he is trying to get something he clearly did not pay for thats all.............

Joeman, I honestly have no beef with you.  Please don't take any of what I say as an indication of that.  I am simply trying to see the situation as an outside, unrelated party to the transaction.

Where I would disagree with your statement above is that you say he "CLEARLY PURCHASED a 2001d regular ms69 ngc for 130usd WEEKS BEFORE THE EXISTANCE OF THE SMALL DATE WAS KNOWN".  That statement contradicts itself.  How can someone CLEARLY buy a Large D or Small D before it was known to exist?  He bought neither a Large D or a Small D but a 2001-D.  You then went on to send him a Serial number for a SPECIFIC coin.  This coin happened to be a SMALL D.  At that point you were selling him a SPECIFIC coin with serial number 2780533-023.  Which is a 2001-D "Small D".  

You say that giving him that serial number was a mistake but from your other posts it is pretty clear that you had 2 sheets of 2001-D's.  You posted on December 6, "yep i graded a whole sheet sandac is spot on 9 ms69 and 1 ms68        the other sheet is in the safe box, i go get it and post some pics in a few days............ i believe it is shenzhen".  Then you send Shanghai Coins a message about having another 10 being graded (the other sheet).  Let me guess...the other sheet is NOT Small-D?

I point all this out so you can see that a Buyer in Shanghai Coin's shoes would have reason to question what really happened.

You can argue all day long that Shanghai was not buying a "Small-D" but on the same hand you were not necessarily selling a "Large-D".  Since you admitted to selling several of these "Small-D" for low prices.


« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:58:22 PM by Obsidian »

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2012, 04:54:45 PM »
THERE IS AN OLD SAYING  'YOU JUST CANT FIX STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!I HOPE THIS PUTS THIS TO REST EXCHANGE AND DEAL WELL BEFORE 2001 SMALL D EXISTANCE

And this is why I don't find Shanghai Coins comments about what you said in a phone conversation all that far fetched.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2012, 04:58:05 PM »
I just want to offer "a word of caution" to those who are willing to pay $1,000 ...or $750 ... or whatever you think that "small-D" is worth .... to get a hold of one.

Remember what poconopenn said earlier, though he believes they are a genuine variety, these small-D may not be as rare as you would think. He even posted pictures of "sheets" for sale.

"Train is leaving the station, so I have to jump on this one?" ...... maybe not. There's another one coming soon. 

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.135

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12735493645&ali_trackid=2:mm_14507416_2297358_8935934:1355083423_4k2_1295920960

http://www.shuoqian.net/view-6378183.html

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2012, 05:10:30 PM »
And this is why I don't find Shanghai Coins comments about what you said in a phone conversation all that far fetched.

"The customer is always right "
 
to:

"The customer is alway smite "
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline SANDAC

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2012, 05:11:03 PM »
I come from the school of thought you make a deal and stick to it.
Good, I'm glad to hear it.  A deal is a deal is a deal.  My idea of the business deal has not changed.  In that light, obviously I have not read your explaination correctly.  But I see Obsidian is doing a better job of parsing your explaination, so I'll step aside.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2012, 05:16:07 PM »
In the past two months, I have found CCF to be much more passionate and controversial - LOVE IT !!!!!    :001_wub: :thumbup: N18 N46 N34

Offline snowball

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2012, 05:33:48 PM »
In the past two months, I have found CCF to be much more passionate and controversial - LOVE IT !!!!!    :001_wub: :thumbup: N18 N46 N34

 N8 N8
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joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2012, 06:47:09 PM »
"Joeman, I honestly have no beef with you.  Please don't take any of what I say as an indication of that.  I am simply trying to see the situation as an outside, unrelated party to the transaction."

Really???????????  Then you would clearly understand sitting from my side of the fence ,it appears to me at least on the surface to be a sublime attack or at least jab at my honesty and integrity ............

So Obsidian  I honestly have no beef with you.  Please don't take any of what I say as an indication of that. but I am unclear as to what you are driving at other then to try and insight argument or something ,but I have trouble trying to understand this:
Where I would disagree with your statement above is that you say he "CLEARLY PURCHASED a 2001d regular ms69 ngc for 130usd WEEKS BEFORE THE EXISTANCE OF THE SMALL DATE WAS KNOWN"

You clearly being a very intelligent insightful person, I will try to explain again ,without having to dumb it down too much, what in the world do you think he bought? after I post  clear proof of his purchase weeks before the existence of the small d ,fairy dust?? end of the day my friend anyone with a lick of sense knows exactly what he bought and exactly what he was trying to do.......   have a great day.............


joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2012, 06:48:39 PM »
 :001_
N8 N8

exactly what i was thinking :001_rolleyes: you got your hands ful here Mr Snowball N16

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2012, 06:50:49 PM »
Lesson to be learned:

Don't let your wife handle your metal or your certification numbers  :thumbup:

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2012, 06:52:20 PM »
 
Lesson to be learned:

Don't let your wife handle your metal or your certification numbers  :thumbup:
duly noted thanks  N16

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2012, 06:55:43 PM »

  N8 N8


This thread is "CLEARLY  :001_smile:" making snowball sweat.  Those two cute little "smiley face" are wiping sweat off their brows.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:58:36 PM by dynamike51 »

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2012, 07:11:01 PM »

what in the world do you think he bought?



That's exactly the point at the center of this heated discussion. SOME of the members here think he bought the coin with the certification # YOU provided.  Even you admitted that the mistake was made by YOU (or your wife), so ......

It's OK. You're a human ... now, you think small-D is worth more and you don't want to part with it for $130  ....... we understand.

Offline snowball

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2012, 07:19:15 PM »
This thread is "CLEARLY  :001_smile:" making snowball sweat.  Those two cute little "smiley face" are wiping sweat off their brows.


sweating....



but



kinda


enjoying too..   N2


anyway, I do think I need a day off to take a good rest after this...


peace!


snowball
Happy Collecting!  快乐收藏!

Colin
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joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2012, 07:40:41 PM »
That's exactly the point at the center of this heated discussion. SOME of the members here think he bought the coin with the certification # YOU provided.  Even you admitted that the mistake was made by YOU (or your wife), so ......

It's OK. You're a human ... now, you think small-D is worth more and you don't want to part with it for $130  ....... we understand.
unbelievable :001_tt2:  :bored: 

Offline SANDAC

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2012, 08:34:43 PM »

sweating....



but



kinda


enjoying too..   N2

I raise my own Big Jim green chili.  I know that face, and I know the expression: "sweating...but..kinda enjoying, too"
 N26   N17  N2  N31

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2012, 08:42:28 PM »
That's the funniest use of emoticons I ever seen here
 N29
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2012, 09:23:38 PM »

So Obsidian.....what in the world do you think he bought? after I post  clear proof of his purchase weeks before the existence of the small d ,fairy dust?? end of the day my friend anyone with a lick of sense knows exactly what he bought and exactly what he was trying to do.......   have a great day.............


The answer to that question is quite simple.  At the time he was quoted a price he was buying a 2001-D.  This includes EITHER a "regular" or "Large D" AND a "Small D".  Because at that time neither buyer nor seller knew about or specified a "variety".  Right?

The dilemma for you is that 3 things occurred.  You provide the buyer with a serial number of a 2001-D "small-D"(a good practice as a seller), the variety is discovered and prices climb on the variety.  Not necessarily in that order.

At the worst after the variety was "recognized" you realized you didn't have anymore of the "regular / Large D" to sell him and you didn't want to sell him a "Small D" at the agreed upon price so you tell him the coin was oversold and here we are....

At the best in a simple transaction you made two fairly big mistakes.  You gave a buyer the wrong serial number on a coin they were purchasing AND you oversold the coin.  Whether it was you, your wife or Santa Claus that made the mistakes you were the one acting as the seller.

Draw what conclusions you want from that as I am neither judge nor jury.  The point I have been trying to make is you have an unhappy buyer and not one without reason.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 09:26:54 PM by Obsidian »

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2012, 10:06:35 PM »
The answer to that question is quite simple.  At the time he was quoted a price he was buying a 2001-D.  This includes EITHER a "regular" or "Large D" AND a "Small D".  Because at that time neither buyer nor seller knew about or specified a "variety".  Right?

The dilemma for you is that 3 things occurred.  You provide the buyer with a serial number (a good practice as a seller), the variety is discovered and prices climb on the variety.  Not necessarily in that order.

At the worst after the variety was "recognized" you realized you didn't have anymore of the "regular / Large D" to sell him and you didn't want to sell him a "Small D" at the agreed upon price so you tell him the coin was oversold and here we are....

At the best in a simple transaction you made two fairly big mistakes.  You gave a buyer the wrong serial number on a coin they were purchasing AND you oversold the coin.  Whether it was you, your wife or Santa Claus that made the mistake you were the one acting as the seller.

Draw what conclusions you want from that as I am neither judge nor jury.  The point I have been trying to make is you have an unhappy buyer and not one without reason.
here is the problem with you theory,s and fact less assumptions ............... I provided him the certification long after the small D variety was recognized ,so it was sent in error,so I dont have a problem, you might ,but I most certainly don't ,
and here are the hard cold facts you can twist them anyway you like to suit you warped perception of reality
your buddy paid 130 usd for a ms 69 2001d,and once he saw that certification that was sent to him by mistake , he decided he was going to insist on getting something he did not agree to purchase nor did he pay for it  and that is it ,clear as a bell ,over and out Im done discussing it ........................... 

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2012, 10:33:41 PM »
A lost opportunity to have become a "Legend Seller".  

As buyers and collectors, we all know some seller we have bought from, who went above and beyond the call, to whom we will cheerfully recommend to all our friends as being not only fair, but MORE than fair, and to whom we owe our sincere thanks, admiration and lifetime loyalty.




On the other hand....
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2012, 10:39:38 PM »

On the other hand....


.... I want back my 1999 "serif 1" which I mistakenly sold as a "large date" for $150 ......   :001_unsure: >:( N20 N17 N11

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2012, 10:50:15 PM »
Oh, com'on!

That lucky buyer signs praises of you, tells stories to all his friends about what a great guy you are, and has a little shrine built to you !  N18. ( I've seen it, a little spooky, actually, but...) LOL!

Being more than fair is good policy and great cheap publicity,  that money just cant buy.

An few exta bucks in the pocket = A few extra bucks. And The Taxman takes half.
An overjoyed customer.... Priceless!
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline comeaux

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2012, 10:51:08 PM »
I’m not gonna get all worked up on this topic so I will make only one comment as it’s borderline ridiculous but joe has dealt $1,000’s in coins on other forums I participate on without issue and I honestly think it’s ridiculous to hold a person to a specific/exact certification number as long as the coin delivered is exactly as what was sold which is a 2001-D in MS69 condition. A full refund was even offered so no harm no fowl … the buyer thought he was getting a more lucrative deal for a steal and it didn’t happen so now he has sorry grapes?  

Another thing is I find it EXTREMELY cheesy for people to snoop on other forums that they do not and have never participated on and then run back here to CCF like a reporter with “hot news” … wow is this high school?

Joe the best advice I can give you is drop the responses to this topic now … it’s a menial witch hunt without merit whereas when the real witch was being hunted a month ago … some of those that are on your case now were hiding their “cojones” back then  :lol:

Take care bud   :thumbup1:      
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:04:46 PM by comeaux »

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2012, 11:28:06 PM »
I agree that enough has been said on this topic.  People can draw their own conclusions I would just like to clarify a couple of things.

Shanghai Coins is not my buddy.  I have bought coins from him a couple of times without problems.  That is the extent of our relationship.  I do not have a "dog in this fight".

As to this being a witch hunt...that is obviously not my intention or anyone elses.  As I stated before I have no beef with Joeman.  If I were a buyer that felt strongly enough about the situation to make it public, I would likely appreciate it being discussed.  Based on many other transactions on Silverstackers I do actually believe Joeman as a whole is a fine seller.  That being said, I do believe the situation in discussion was handled poorly and that is exactly why it is being discussed.  Had it been handled differently, it never would have been brought up in the forum.

Another thing is I find it EXTREMELY cheesy for people to snoop on other forums that they do not and have never participated on and then run back here to CCF like a reporter with “hot news” … wow is this high school?

I find this to be a very odd comment.  All forums in discussion are PUBLIC.  Just because a person doesn't actively participate in the forum doesn't mean they don't browse.  Also, the silverstackers forum was specifically mentioned in Shanghai Coins original complaint.

I believe these types of discussion are worthwhile as both buyers and sellers alike can learn from both the good things people do or mistakes they might make.

And besides, I am not currently a heavy buyer or seller of these coins but I still like to learn and discuss what is a hobby and investment for me.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:32:32 PM by Obsidian »

Offline comeaux

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2012, 11:58:36 PM »
Please let us not use the CCF to resolve every problem between CCF members. Xu Hongs dilemma was a bit different in that it involved several hundred thousand dollars and could have an impact on many members. I believe your problem is of such low amount that you should keep it between yourself and the party involved. We don't want the CCF to devolve into something it was never intended to be. I hope you understand what I say. I wish you good luck. GDG

Thank you GDG … a restoration of my faith in logic and reason amongst the CCF members.  :thumbup1:

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2012, 03:33:00 AM »
Time in a pending transaction kills many deals or creates disputes - eliminate the time factor and transactions will occur smoothly.  Everyday prices for metals move, auctions end and new information about coins comes out (NGC census gets updated on Monday mornings, forums find new varieties ,..), all these give one party an unfair advantage in a transaction over another.

One thing that I have learned over the years to avoid disputes and mistakes is:

As a seller, never hold coins for more than a day without payment or trade. 
As a buyer, don't ask sellers to hold coins that you can't pay for within 24 hours or provide trade.

There are exceptions to this when the buyer and seller have done many transactions together and term "hold" is never used, instead "confirmed" is used in the conversation, payment/coins arrive to each party based on confirmed terms without any drama or excuses. 

Arif

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2012, 04:27:15 AM »
 
I’m not gonna get all worked up on this topic so I will make only one comment as it’s borderline ridiculous but joe has dealt $1,000’s in coins on other forums I participate on without issue and I honestly think it’s ridiculous to hold a person to a specific/exact certification number as long as the coin delivered is exactly as what was sold which is a 2001-D in MS69 condition. A full refund was even offered so no harm no fowl … the buyer thought he was getting a more lucrative deal for a steal and it didn’t happen so now he has sorry grapes?
 

Another thing is I find it EXTREMELY cheesy for people to snoop on other forums that they do not and have never participated on and then run back here to CCF like a reporter with “hot news” … wow is this high school?



Joe the best advice I can give you is drop the responses to this topic now … it’s a menial witch hunt without merit whereas when the real witch was being hunted a month ago … some of those that are on your case now were hiding their “cojones” back then  :lol:

Take care bud   :thumbup1:       

thank you my friend , your right ,i just don't like being called a thief or not reputable or dishonest by people who don't know crap ,and are defending some dude or practice who was just trying to get over on somebody ,not because they actually care for him or me ,it is all about getting there jollies off, see but it don't bother me, anyone who has done business with me knows the truth. thank you my brother I am done with these dudes......they chase another one away like that Dude wasserguiest with the incredible collection :)    N18

Offline Obsidian

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2012, 11:57:12 AM »
defending some dude or practice who was just trying to get over on somebody ,not because they actually care for him or me ,it is all about getting there jollies off

I guess your are right if by jollies you mean looking at a situation as an impartial third party and believing that mistakes made by a seller put him in a situation that made a buyer unhappy.  And somehow this is all the buyers fault?

I am done with these dudes......they chase another one

I am sorry that logic and sound reasoning have offended you.

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2012, 05:38:26 AM »
NGC number was not a mistake ,

"Hi I made a mistake on the invoice i put down on line 2 1982 1/10 it is in fact a 1984 as agreed ,I dont even have a 1982 in ms69:)

here are the cert #,s once you approve them I will ship Asap

2001d  2780533-023

Regards joe"

after few days you realize its a small date , and resell it on CCF ! Later you create some reasons such as
1) oversold
2) wife send a wrong ngc number ( how she can make mistake if it was only 3 coins left and all SD . before we agreed 2 01-d's , after i decide to buy only 1 , so what if i bought 2 coins ? )
3) buyer was buying LD

nothing to say more ...

i would like to refund all coins  and ask you to public  apologize for all dirty words you said to me on the phone !

BTW is it so rare variety to pay $750- $1000?

 





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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2012, 06:07:50 AM »
 I provided you the certification long after the small D variety was recognized ,so it was sent in error,so I don't have a problem, you might ,but I most certainly don't ,
and here are the hard cold facts you can twist them anyway you like to suit you warped perception of reality
you  paid 130 usd for a ms 69 2001d,and once you saw that certification that was sent to you by mistake ,which was for a coin you DID NOT AGREE TO PURCHASE you decided you where going to insist on getting something you did not agree to purchase nor did you pay for and that is it ,clear as a bell ,over and out Im done discussing it ...........................

Refund will given as soon as I receive the coins I shipped you in good order, I wont be apologizing for something that was not said ,Joe

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2012, 06:29:26 AM »
"Hi I made a mistake on the invoice i put down on line 2 1982 1/10 it is in fact a 1984 as agreed ,I dont even have a 1982 in ms69:)

here are the cert #,s once you approve them I will ship Asap

2001d  2780533-023

Regards joe"

you even point here  ,what you made a mistake on 82 1/10 ...

i dont want to discuss it anymore ...

i made a mistake that i didt record our phone conversation ! I m sure you ll be say , it was mistake , wrong phone number not me , not my voice ))))

 


joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2012, 06:31:51 AM »
last post.....SEND BACK COINS in good order ,receive refund.....................

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2012, 06:45:43 AM »
 I will video tape the opening of the package when and if it is received so there is no mistake as to what came back and in what condition.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2012, 12:28:59 PM »
...... it's dead already.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2012, 02:50:22 PM »
joeman:

You can "smite" my karma all you want   :001_tt2:  .... it doesn't matter to me (unless I can trade those karma points for a cup of Starbucks :0)

Just look at the "karma count", you should know that you're leading that race by a wide margin  :001_tt2: ... I hope that tells you something.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 03:07:33 PM by dynamike51 »

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2012, 03:39:54 PM »
Stop beating a dead horse.............:)

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2012, 07:05:59 PM »
.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

joeman

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2012, 07:10:27 PM »
 N25  you guys are pretty amusing I must admit :biggrin: ,any of you dudes have jobs? you seem to have a lot of time on your hands N30  stop smiting me I am not so bad once you get to know me :001_tongue:

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2012, 08:13:36 PM »
Let us know how it turns out in th end. Other than this info, this thread no longer serves a purpose. All points of view have been exhaustively explained. Let's move on  N30

Offline shibaji

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2012, 05:23:10 PM »
Well - the market has spoken - http://www.ebay.com/itm/200861492032

$500 was a very very good deal! Anything above $650 was not good (after deducting ebay/paypal fees from the above sale price)

So, the fair value at the moment is about $650 if bought outside ebay, $700 otherwise.

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2012, 02:34:19 AM »
Well - the market has spoken - http://www.ebay.com/itm/200861492032

$500 was a very very good deal! Anything above $650 was not good (after deducting ebay/paypal fees from the above sale price)

So, the fair value at the moment is about $650 if bought outside ebay, $700 otherwise.

 market  :lol:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=200861492032


mr. 100 %

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=200861492032&aid=i***a&eu=btKV70GigDVjTExwOx4xA%2FPtI4PemTCK&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink

   :001_tt1:



Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2012, 02:40:51 AM »
WG-

Can you possibly SAY what you hint at?

I am a WG fan, and I know the language barrier exists, but can you please occasionally take at least a stab at English?

It's hard to guess what you are getting at ... Every time... Without an explanation...

Thanks-
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2012, 02:44:13 AM »
WG:

How about this - you can say in Deutsche, and we will use the Google translator to better understand you?  Yes, I'm a BIG fan of yours, too.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 02:46:22 AM by dynamike51 »

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2012, 02:50:29 AM »
WG:

How about this - you can say in Deutsche, and we will use the Google translator to better understand you?


mike ..

i can do this also, but after reading google translate  :scared: :drool:

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2012, 02:59:42 AM »
WG-

Can you possibly SAY what you hint at?

I am a WG fan, and I know the language barrier exists, but can you please occasionally take at least a stab at English?

It's hard to guess what you are getting at ... Every time... Without an explanation...

Thanks-

test goggle translate

ich denke man muss nicht immer alles vorkauen ... denken könnt ihr doch selbst. ;)



grüsse


I think you have to chew, not everything ... you can think of that yourself

regards



« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:15:16 AM by wg »

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2012, 03:04:23 AM »
p.s.:

sorry - link "mr.100 %" isn't working :(



« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:12:27 AM by wg »

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2012, 03:06:32 AM »
test goggle translate

ich denke man muss nicht immer alles vorkauen ... denken könnt ihr doch selbst. ;)



grüsse



"I think you have to chew, not everything ... You can imagine but even greet" (I'm not sure if it's translated properly)

How does this relate to your reply #69 to shibaji ?? What am I missing?

Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2012, 03:22:36 AM »
Com'on WG, we get it,  you see yourself as a rich, mystical, hinter.  N16

But I for one, find it burdonsome to try to figure out your hints.  N1

If you have something to say, say it, please.  We can translate.  Or you can.  N34

If you really want to.... As I told the kiddo... "Use your words"  N25






« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:30:30 AM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2012, 03:29:44 AM »
 "the market has spoken"

 ... believe it or not.






Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 MAYBE NOT SO RARE............
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2012, 03:35:35 AM »
"the market has spoken"


Gosh that's such a cool saying... But I think Shibaji said it first.

Well - the market has spoken -

I just knew you could translate !  Thanks!   N31 N34






« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:48:26 AM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline wg

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »

>>> But I think Shibaji said it first. <<<



only he did 

my words ... believe it or not




Offline Hippanda

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 MAYBE NOT SO RARE............
« Reply #80 on: December 16, 2012, 04:05:23 AM »
Great- now we are finally getting somewhere- whew-
So what were you trying to say with cryptic:



 market  

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=200861492032


mr. 100 %

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=200861492032&aid=i***a&eu=btKV70GigDVjTExwOx4xA%2FPtI4PemTCK&view=NONE&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_None_ViewLink


Please "use your words".
  
Thanks!  N31
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:24:07 AM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline eurokrem

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #81 on: December 16, 2012, 09:56:50 AM »
hallo wg


jetzt bin ich auch neugierig, komm schreibs auf Deutsch und ich geb mein bestes um es in English sinngemäß zu übersetzten.

  N18 bitte bitte  N66

mir riecht dies ganzes 2001 klein oder groß D ein wenig auf versuch schnell dickes Geld zu machen bevor es rauskommt was die Teile wirklich Wert sind.

 N25


I just ask if he may wrote it in Deutsch and i am going to give my best to translate in English

I am curious to what do wg means  N40
У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline Silverfever

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #82 on: December 16, 2012, 10:16:15 AM »
Wg is trying to imply that shill bidding was involved in that transaction.

Offline wittu

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #83 on: December 16, 2012, 10:19:34 AM »
Hi,

my first posting in this forum  N43.
I am a chinese coin collector from germany. Of course i know wg  :thumbup:
And believe me: sometimes i don't even understand his german... but i'm getting better  N31

First of all:
- he is a collector with great knowledge...no dealer!
- he is great in finding fakes
- he is active trying to force the fakes sellers
- always helpful, when "we" got questions
- special kind of humour...and i think he likes, people having little difficulties "reading his posts", hehe

In this case, i believe he means:
The market has spoken.....is wrong "yet" (his opinion)...cause the auction seems to be a little manipulated...
One bidder has 100% activity on the sellers auction: that's sometimes a sign for driving prices up  :001_tt2: (at least on ebai germany)

So...if this truely is the right "market price", is not clear yet...i guess there have to be a couple more coins sold, before anyone can say, that it's the right value...

wittu  N48
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 10:25:19 AM by wittu »

Offline Straitssettlementshop

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #84 on: December 16, 2012, 10:21:52 AM »
WG,

What other new coins in your closet ? I hope you don't mind sharing with us.

Thank you in advance.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #85 on: December 16, 2012, 11:26:11 AM »
Welcome wittu!

Thank you for your testimonials regarding wg.

And believe me: sometimes i don't even understand his german... but i'm getting better  N31
I cracked up laughing reading this.  So he talks in riddle in his native tongue as well!  We do meet such interesting groups of people in the coin forum.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2012, 11:33:50 AM »

I just ask if he may wrote it in Deutsch and i am going to give my best to translate in English


Wonderful !! Thank you.  We all wonder what WG meant to say and want to know his thoughts ....

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2012, 06:13:54 AM »
coins delivered , please make a refund joeman, thanks

Grigoryan Coins Ltd

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2012, 06:33:44 AM »
i got a notice from paypal , refund sent . thanks joeman

Offline geoxxx

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Re: F/S 2001 SMALL D NGC MS69 RARE............
« Reply #89 on: December 29, 2012, 10:19:44 AM »
Is there any new recent information about 2001 small D pandas
population, pricing?