Author Topic: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)  (Read 20701 times)

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barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2014, 08:24:08 AM »
the census report shifts when you copy and paste sorry folks       9 pf 69,   15 pf68    2 pf67

Thanks again for reviving an old subject.  I've owned the 68 for about year now, and the raw one is on the way. I bought it from a guy who had 3 in his inventory.  He said he got them in a deal he did back nearly 20 years ago.  I'm sure he made a good chunk of change. I will definitely send it to NGC to be conserved.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/231172668736?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35d2f6fd40&nma=true&si=xF6J%252FWegr%252FEuh%252FZf3ZhFCfm910Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  looks like it is good condition, and the great thing is he has a money back guarantee, so if there is spotting, I'll send it back.  But he assured me that there was none.  we'll soon see.  The 'rumor' I've heard that is there is only about 160 of these in existence, but who really knows?  I think quite a few were melted.  key words: i think. LOL.  Or better put. I hope!! :-)  thanks for sharing all the data on the medal. 

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2014, 08:43:06 AM »
very nice ................!   I think you did well at that price ,IMHO opinion even if 400 or so are out there which probably there are not ,you just don't see many for sale that makes it rare IMHO ......conserve it my friend who knows what that holder is made out of the coin looks good you want to keep it that way.................

Offline davidt3251

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2014, 11:39:43 AM »
the census report shifts when you copy and paste sorry folks       9 pf 69,   15 pf68    2 pf67

Seems like a small number graded compared to the 500 sold. But if many of the buyers knew they were buying an error then one would think that should increase the surviving population compared to a non-error, standard issue.

Maybe the Chinese Mint bought them back at $80 after the show using 'agents' to avoid too much embarrassment and that decreased the surviving population?

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2014, 11:55:39 AM »
Seems like a small number graded compared to the 500 sold. But if many of the buyers knew they were buying an error then one would think that should increase the surviving population compared to a non-error, standard issue.

Maybe the Chinese Mint bought them back at $80 after the show using 'agents' to avoid too much embarrassment and that decreased the surviving population?

Great info.  And I believe Flashfire (eBay handle) said the same thing.  He said, it was an embarrassment at the show.  And he seemed to indicate that not all of them were sold, but quickly pulled from the table and sent back to be melted.  He gave a number like 160 minted, but he was taking an 'educated guess.' Based on the graded amounts, probably about right.  Although I know quite a few raw ones have been sold on eBay, probably yet to be graded.  Hopefully someday, we'll have a better ideal.  Thanks again for all the input everyone

Offline bonke

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2014, 04:41:37 PM »
Many of these medals have "die polish" or heavy parallel lines in the field.  This problem cannot be eliminated by NCS and is somewhat unsightly.  Certainly, this detracts from the design and lowers the potential grade.  This problem can easily be hidden in the pictures for internet listings.  So, if you attend a coin show and if you see one of these medals in the original packaging and if die polish is not evident after a close look, buy the medal for your collection and submit it to NCS for conservation and NGC for grading.  Soon, these medals will no longer be available.  Mark Bonke   

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2014, 04:55:57 PM »
Many of these medals have "die polish" or heavy parallel lines in the field.  This problem cannot be eliminated by NCS and is somewhat unsightly.  Certainly, this detracts from the design and lowers the potential grade.  This problem can easily be hidden in the pictures for internet listings.  So, if you attend a coin show and if you see one of these medals in the original packaging and if die polish is not evident after a close look, buy the medal for your collection and submit it to NCS for conservation and NGC for grading.  Soon, these medals will no longer be available.  Mark Bonke   

Hey Mark, thank so much. I'll be getting mine this week from a dealer here in the states, who has sat on it for 15 years.  Is this something I can see with the naked eye?  I do have a money back guarantee, and want to be sure this is a solid medal.  I can't afford to 'waste' money.  I had to sell 'stuff' to buy it.  Is the polish obvious?  Can I take a video of it and send it someone here on this forum who will know what to work for?  I won't be able to crack open the case the raw medal is in.  Thanks for the heads up.  Thanks SO MUCH.

Offline bonke

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2014, 05:12:16 PM »
Your medal may arrive in the single hard plastic rectangle or in the double plastic (hard plastic rectangle and older type soft plastic).  Either way, you should evaluate it in natural light with magnification.  Normally, it is difficult to evaluate these medals in either single or double plastic (since the plastic has aged).  Still, in appropriate lighting and with magnification, rotate the holder and look carefully.  Hopefully, there will be no rub marks on the high points.  Hopefully, there will be no mishandling marks (which occurred before the mint employee put the medal in the holder).  Hopefully, there will be no "die polish" lines in the field.  With patience, you will be able to determine the condition of the surface on both sides for yourself.

At one coin show, Nick Brown had three of these raw medals in his inventory.  He very kindly permitted me time to look at all three carefully.  All were in original double plastic.  All were beautiful (without magnification).  All had no rub marks or mishandling marks.  Two of the three had "die polish" in the fields.  Would this lower the grade from a 69 to a 68?  Who knows?  I purchased the best of the three for a very high price.  NGC did grade it as a 69.  Still, maybe, the other two would also grade as 69s.  They were very nice medals.

Good Luck!

Mark Bonke 

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2014, 05:35:45 PM »
Your medal may arrive in the single hard plastic rectangle or in the double plastic (hard plastic rectangle and older type soft plastic).  Either way, you should evaluate it in natural light with magnification.  Normally, it is difficult to evaluate these medals in either single or double plastic (since the plastic has aged).  Still, in appropriate lighting and with magnification, rotate the holder and look carefully.  Hopefully, there will be no rub marks on the high points.  Hopefully, there will be no mishandling marks (which occurred before the mint employee put the medal in the holder).  Hopefully, there will be no "die polish" lines in the field.  With patience, you will be able to determine the condition of the surface on both sides for yourself.

At one coin show, Nick Brown had three of these raw medals in his inventory.  He very kindly permitted me time to look at all three carefully.  All were in original double plastic.  All were beautiful (without magnification).  All had no rub marks or mishandling marks.  Two of the three had "die polish" in the fields.  Would this lower the grade from a 69 to a 68?  Who knows?  I purchased the best of the three for a very high price.  NGC did grade it as a 69.  Still, maybe, the other two would also grade as 69s.  They were very nice medals.

Good Luck!

Mark Bonke 

Wow.  Man, you are a life saver!  I really appreciate ALL the instruction and feedback.  I paid a hefty chunk of change (for me anyway) for this piece, and if I let this sit in my box until I collect my pennies to get graded, and they came back and said, 'oh by the way...' I'd be very discouraged...not to mention my wife would kick my arse. If I get a 68 I'll be fine.  I'm not in expert in these matters, so I'll have to travel to a coin specialist who knows these things.  I'll print out your details, and let him know what to look for. I don't even have any kind of magnification.  Maybe I can go to Wal-Mart and buy one.  This might be a good lesson in training to be more like you guys on this forum.  I have to learn sometime.  I seriously can't thank you enough.  It sounds like a video or a picture up close isn't going to do it.  This is what I'll be receiving.  He is the seller.  I'm sorry for all the detail, I'm just sweating a bit. LOL. http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/351023080997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ba9b2625&nma=true&si=xF6J%252FWegr%252FEuh%252FZf3ZhFCfm910Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Bergelt International, Inc. - Professional Coin Grading Service
www.pcgs.com/Dealers/Detail.  Bergelt International, Inc. PO Box 1627. Fort Lee, NJ O7024 United States of America. Contact: Jeffrey Bergelt

Offline bonke

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2014, 06:30:37 PM »
In the past, I purchased coins from this seller.  I never had a problem.  Each time, I received coins which were consistent with the written description and with the pictures.  From my point of view, you are purchasing your medal from a very reputable coin dealer.

I looked at the pictures in the listing carefully.  Certainly, I can not tell the condition of this medal from these pictures.  The hard plastic looks original.  The soft plastic looks "softer and more pliable" than I remember from my purchases.  Possibly (or probably), my memory has failed.  Possibly, someone resealed the hard plastic in a newer soft plastic holder and this has protected the medal from the typical toning and discoloration.  I just see mild toning in the field.  Still, you or someone will need to look at it carefully to see the actual condition of the medal upon its arrival at your home.  Below the toning (or the discoloration in the plastic), you may find . . . .  ????

I own four of these medals, one a 69 and three 68s.  All were purchased in original plastic.  All were submitted by me to NGC.  All (from my point of view as a collector) look wonderful.  Still three are 68s and one is a 69.

If you are purchasing for resale, upon receipt of the medal, look at it very, very carefully.  If you are purchasing it as a collector who will hold this in his collection for many years, look at it very, very carefully.  Everyone seems to require perfection or near perfection when making purchases.  Upon resale, sellers are being "punished" for anything which is not perfect. 

Mark Bonke

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2014, 07:41:20 PM »
Your medal may arrive in the single hard plastic rectangle or in the double plastic (hard plastic rectangle and older type soft plastic).  Either way, you should evaluate it in natural light with magnification.  Normally, it is difficult to evaluate these medals in either single or double plastic (since the plastic has aged).  Still, in appropriate lighting and with magnification, rotate the holder and look carefully.  Hopefully, there will be no rub marks on the high points.  Hopefully, there will be no mishandling marks (which occurred before the mint employee put the medal in the holder).  Hopefully, there will be no "die polish" lines in the field.  With patience, you will be able to determine the condition of the surface on both sides for yourself.

At one coin show, Nick Brown had three of these raw medals in his inventory.  He very kindly permitted me time to look at all three carefully.  All were in original double plastic.  All were beautiful (without magnification).  All had no rub marks or mishandling marks.  Two of the three had "die polish" in the fields.  Would this lower the grade from a 69 to a 68?  Who knows?  I purchased the best of the three for a very high price.  NGC did grade it as a 69.  Still, maybe, the other two would also grade as 69s.  They were very nice medals.

Good Luck!

Mark Bonke 

Every time I step foot in a coin show ,I think of Mr, Nick Brown a class act and a true gentleman he will always be remembered.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2014, 07:51:59 PM »
Wow.  Man, you are a life saver!  I really appreciate ALL the instruction and feedback.  I paid a hefty chunk of change (for me anyway) for this piece, and if I let this sit in my box until I collect my pennies to get graded, and they came back and said, 'oh by the way...' I'd be very discouraged...not to mention my wife would kick my arse. If I get a 68 I'll be fine.  I'm not in expert in these matters, so I'll have to travel to a coin specialist who knows these things.  I'll print out your details, and let him know what to look for. I don't even have any kind of magnification.  Maybe I can go to Wal-Mart and buy one.  This might be a good lesson in training to be more like you guys on this forum.  I have to learn sometime.  I seriously can't thank you enough.  It sounds like a video or a picture up close isn't going to do it.  This is what I'll be receiving.  He is the seller.  I'm sorry for all the detail, I'm just sweating a bit. LOL. http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/351023080997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ba9b2625&nma=true&si=xF6J%252FWegr%252FEuh%252FZf3ZhFCfm910Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Bergelt International, Inc. - Professional Coin Grading Service
www.pcgs.com/Dealers/Detail.  Bergelt International, Inc. PO Box 1627. Fort Lee, NJ O7024 United States of America. Contact: Jeffrey Bergelt

Barsenault  ,here is one of my favorite magnifiers ,you can carry it around in your pocket and it works great  e bay item # 310914674713  nice bright light to pick up spots imperfections etc

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2014, 10:00:29 PM »
Every time I step foot in a coin show ,I think of Mr, Nick Brown a class act and a true gentleman he will always be remembered.

Wow, I'm pretty new to this hobby, and I just googled searched this guy.  I wish I met him.  Sounds like a class act, and just saw his youtube video.  I wonder, did he ever create the top 100 chinese error coins/medals?  For those that want a glimpse of the man, http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=26994  How did he pass away.  He looks young!!

By the way Jc, thanks for the pointer of getting one of those magnifiers.  I'll get one, for sure.

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2014, 10:11:23 PM »
In the past, I purchased coins from this seller.  I never had a problem.  Each time, I received coins which were consistent with the written description and with the pictures.  From my point of view, you are purchasing your medal from a very reputable coin dealer.

I looked at the pictures in the listing carefully.  Certainly, I can not tell the condition of this medal from these pictures.  The hard plastic looks original.  The soft plastic looks "softer and more pliable" than I remember from my purchases.  Possibly (or probably), my memory has failed.  Possibly, someone resealed the hard plastic in a newer soft plastic holder and this has protected the medal from the typical toning and discoloration.  I just see mild toning in the field.  Still, you or someone will need to look at it carefully to see the actual condition of the medal upon its arrival at your home.  Below the toning (or the discoloration in the plastic), you may find . . . .  ????

I own four of these medals, one a 69 and three 68s.  All were purchased in original plastic.  All were submitted by me to NGC.  All (from my point of view as a collector) look wonderful.  Still three are 68s and one is a 69.

If you are purchasing for resale, upon receipt of the medal, look at it very, very carefully.  If you are purchasing it as a collector who will hold this in his collection for many years, look at it very, very carefully.  Everyone seems to require perfection or near perfection when making purchases.  Upon resale, sellers are being "punished" for anything which is not perfect. 

Mark Bonke

well, lookee here, a person after my own heart, LOL.  Or vice versa, since I'm newer to this fantastic hobby, which I absolutely love.  But you too collect more of one kind of medal or coin.  I thought I was the only one. LOL.  If I could buy 5 of those 1985's I would. :-)  Just the kind of guy I am.  I rather have one of a kind that I absolutely love, whether it is the story/history or the look or artistic appeal vs. the whole set.  Not to say that you don't have the whole set of anything.  I'm sure you do.  But to see someone who has 4 of these, that's music and inspiration to my ears and eyes.  This guy you've purchased from seems like a standup kind of person.  He's been great to work with.  I haven't ordered from him before.  But he's given great feedback.  He said he doesn't believe that these medals have any issues.  He recently sold 2 others that he got from a 'trade' a number of years ago, and they haven't complained.  This was about 2 months ago.  I'll still look very, very carefully at it.  No question.  I will be a nervous wreck, until I have peace of mind that there isn't anything wrong with it.  Sure, I'd like it to be perfect, but if it scores a 68, I'll be very happy.  I dream of a perfect coin. LOL.  Oh, and I'm a collector.  We just adopted a little 2 year old girl from China 7 months ago, and she has been a blessing to our lives.  This is a small way I can stay in tuned with her culture.  Life is good.  This forum has been a blessing in helping me understand coins/medals, and the difference between the 2, and what to buy and not buy and what's a gamble and not one.  Lots to learn...still.  I feel like there is an encyclopedic array of info on Chinese coins and medals, it can be a bit overwhelming.  I just need to be an 'expert' in the one or 2 areas that I have an interest in, and not worry about the rest.  Simply fascinating stuff for sure.  And thanks for your counsel to examine this medal very closely, because I wouldn't have if not for you.  Thank you.

barsenault

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2014, 10:24:02 PM »
Barsenault  ,here is one of my favorite magnifiers ,you can carry it around in your pocket and it works great  e bay item # 310914674713  nice bright light to pick up spots imperfections etc

by the way, as I'm looking, I see some that are 10, 15, and 20X's, I'm assuming those are overkill?

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1985 1oz ANA silver medal (Coin World Article, 1985)
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2014, 10:31:51 PM »
The "die polishing lines" bonke mentioned are also known as striation lines.  It is results of careless die polishing by the mint.  It is not mishandling after minting so you can still get 69 grade with striation lines.  They are hard to see, you need to tilt and rotate the coin and examine with magnifier glasses to see them.  Here are discussions about striation lines:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6403.0

A few pictures I took of my coins with striation lines:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6403.msg38968#msg38968
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4218.msg23128#msg23128

A discussion of magnifiers for coins:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=878.0