Author Topic: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix  (Read 14046 times)

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Offline SANDAC

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Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« on: November 17, 2012, 10:54:20 PM »
I've searched CCF and the Web for variety discussion on the 1990 dragon and phoenix, but I can't find any.  Yet I believe there are major varieties at the master die level, so at the risk of repeating an existing topic, I'll present what I know of the 1990 D&P varieties.  If this story has already being told, please stop me.

On the obverse side of 1990 D&P there are date varieties for silver 10 yuan proof, silver 20 yuan proof, silver 150 yuan proof and gold 200 yuan.  By inference, there is likely date varieties for gold 1500 yuan as well but I have no data on it.

I've already talked about the silver 150 yuan proof here:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1115.msg40737#msg40737 
You will see the same "1990" date shifting left or right on the 150 yuan also exists for others.

Disclosure:  I do own several 1 oz silver proof and 2oz silver proof.  I plan to purchase more in the near future.  I have no plan to sell any D&P for next 6 months.

Tonight I like to visit the 1 oz silver proof.  Picture 1 is the "left date" and picture 2 is the "right date".  The two red arrows are pointed at the same spots on the brick ground for both coins.  You can see the number "1990" is shifted to different position against the brick ground.  I have to use my coins to illustrate this because NGC photo are too grainy to be useful.  However, based on the grainy NGC photos, there should also be a "right high date" where the number 1990 is shifted right and up.  Please examine your holding of 1oz D&P and see if you have one that is slightly different than pic 2 where the number "0" is slightly higher.

And once again, if I'm plowing old ground and all these are well known already, please let me know and send me a link. 

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 11:14:33 PM »
That's a nice write-up on one of the
more popular and yet still available coins of the series.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 11:35:42 PM »
Mine looks like this (0 in 1990 is indeed higher up that yours):


Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 12:02:24 AM »
Ah, yes.  It is gratifying to see one in such detail.  It is a small shift up for all numbers, but it is real.  Thank you.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 12:11:04 AM »
On my coin, you'll notice that the first 9 in 1990 is also shifted up, more significantly than the 0 (I think).

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 12:43:36 AM »
I combined your picture with my two pictures and put them as an animated GIF file.  If you download and open it with Internet Explorer, it will display the three pictures successively, one picture every second.

PS, you don't need to download it after all.  All you have to do is click the picture, and it will play the animation.  Click it again to stop it.

Offline RAREMEDAL

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 10:57:21 AM »
观察非常仔细,赞
RAREMEDAL — Feng Jingjing sir. I come from He'nan of China.
I love chinese rare medals and golden and silver coins.
My E-mail:2209925761@qq.com
My blog:  http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhongyuanfeng555

Offline Birdman

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
I combined your picture with my two pictures and put them as an animated GIF file.  If you download and open it with Internet Explorer, it will display the three pictures successively, one picture every second.

PS, you don't need to download it after all.  All you have to do is click the picture, and it will play the animation.  Click it again to stop it.

That is a useful and interesting comparison animation.  Thanks.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 12:07:20 PM »
I actually didn't realize CCF can handle the animated GIF until I uploaded and clicked on it.  I think it may be an useful feature to show small differences between several coins.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix, 200 yuan 2oz gold
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 09:46:04 PM »
For the 2 oz gold 200 yuan D&P, I'm aware of two date varieties.  Picture 1 is the "right date", NGC 3357427-020 and picture 2 is the "left date" NGC 3357529-062.  The red arrow is pointing at the same spot on the brick ground for both pictures.  Picture 3 is the composite of the two previous pictures and displayed as animated GIF.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix, 20 yuan silver 2oz proof
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 08:54:02 PM »
Regarding the varieties of the silver 2 oz proof, I am aware of three varieties as illustrated in first three pictures below.  The red arrow in each picture is pointing at the same spot on the brick background.  The first picture is the "left date" (NGC 3357569-027) where the date is shifted to the left against the brick background.  The 2nd picture is the "right date" (NGC 3564664-006) where the date is shifted to the right relatively to the background.  Like the silver 1oz proof, there is also a "right high date" where the date is slightly higher than the "right date".  I used my own coin to illustrate because of better picture quality.  An equivalent "right high date" can be found in NGC 3356505-017.  

I also combined all three pictures into an animated GIF file (4th picture).

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 11:59:48 PM »
I think the original post was lost during the server migration.  I’ve cleaned up the pictures and repost it here again:

I received another silver 1oz D&P proof in the mail today, NGC 3545911-007.  Lo and behold, it is yet another variety!  The date is shifted to the left and high.  The number "1" in particular is shifted high and slightly left.  See picture 1.  Picture 2 is the animated GIF of the 4 varieties at 2 second interval.

I think I also find another variety for the 2 oz gold proof.  There must be a story here.  Why so many varieties at the master die level?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 12:59:46 AM by SANDAC »

Offline tkcoin

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 02:45:14 PM »
I am sure many here already know this, the biggest variety for the 1990 D&P is the date of 1990 vs 1989 and there is a very interesting historical story for that variety.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 01:03:11 PM »
My understanding is that 1989 Dragon and Phoenix do exist but are extremely rare.  NGC population report shows not a single one.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Varieties of 1990 Dragon & Phoenix
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »
My understanding is that 1989 Dragon and Phoenix do exist but are extremely rare.  NGC population report shows not a single one.

http://www.coinex.com/other_chinese_coins/dragon_phoenix/

"The coins were originally going to be issued in 1989, but due to the political instability surrounding the notorious Tiananmen Square student protests it was decided to issue the coins in 1990 instead. Almost all the coins bearing the 1989 date on the obverse face were destroyed making these coins dated 1989 extremely rare. 1989 versions of almost all the coins in the 1990 dragon and phoenix series can be found, with perhaps the exception of the 20 oz gold coin. It is thought that there are only around ten 20 oz silver dragon and phoenix coins which bear the 1989 date."