Author Topic: Fake NGC slab danger  (Read 110189 times)

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:12 PM »
It's not like anybody currently here has anything to hide, ?
Not at all, and just to be clear to all, I'm not the one "poking" you.  If the "poke" should also apply to me, please PM me as well.

As to who all own CC, I assume it is all badon.  I certainly have no financial involvement past or present, and I'm not aware of any potential for financial involvement in the next 12 months.  I did contribute its content significantly in the past, and likely to contribute sporadically in the near future.  The contributors are anonymous, but I used my same SANDAC moniker there.  All contributions are logged, and anyone can view the log.

I believe it can be an useful tool.  It is still in its infancy, not user friendly, and of limited use, but IMHO, the potential is there.

Offline Silverfever

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2012, 04:45:20 PM »
I just received my 1987 Pf 69 UC panda.

To my newbie eyes, when I compare it to Sandac's key points, i think the coin is authentic.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2012, 05:02:21 PM »
I just received my 1987 Pf 69 UC panda.

To my newbie eyes, when I compare it to Sandac's key points, i think the coin is authentic.

Silverfever:

This is a long-running thread. Your reference of "sandac's key points", what are the "key points"? And you said, "the coin is authentic". There are quite a few coins mentioned in this thread, mostly counterfeits. Which coin you refer to as "authentic"? Do you mind posting a photo of that PF 69 coin you just received back? Thanks.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2012, 05:10:20 PM »
Silverfever:

This is a long-running thread. Your reference of "sandac's key points", what are the "key points"? And you said, "the coin is authentic". There are quite a few coins mentioned in this thread, mostly counterfeits. Which coin you refer to as "authentic"? Do you mind posting a photo of that PF 69 coin you just received back? Thanks.

Silverfever:

Never mind. I went back to the beginning of this thread and realize you are referring to the 87 panda you bought from that seller.

Offline silver222

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2012, 04:52:34 PM »
DEAR COMMUNITY,
YES. WE SOLD THE COIN AND COIN WAS RETURN FOR THE FULL REFUND.
YES, THIS BUYER COMPLAIN THAT COIN AND THE HOLDER SLIGHTLY LIGHTER, THEN IT SUPPOSED TO BE, BUT IT WAS NEVER DISCUSSION THAT IT WAS 3 GRAMS LIGHTER.
WE HAVE A POLICY 14 DAYS RETURN NO QUESTION ASK TO THE FULL SATISFACTION OF ANY CUSTOMER. THIS IS A REASON, WE NEVER ARGUE WITH THE BUYER IF THIS COIN REAL OR FAKE. BUT, LET ME TELL YOU WITH 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE DEALING AND COLLECTING PROFESSIONALY AND PERSONALY, THIS COIN, IN OUR OPINION, IS REAL.
HOWEVER, VERY COMMON ISSUE, ALMOST BULLION. WE  TRUST NGC, AND DO NOT TRUST  ANYBODY, WHO HAS VERY LITTLE EXPERIENCE, OR NONE IN COINS GRADING.
WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE, AND WHAT IS YOUR ID ON EBAY, AND WHAT IS YOUR FEEDBACK SCORE. WE HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE AND WE POST OUR ID AND STORE NAME.  SO, WE DO NOT KNOW YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND WHY QUALIFIED TO BE EXPERT IN THIS FIELD. IN MY OPINION, YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO, SO YOU TRY TO INSALT PEOPLE, YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW. PLEASE, GET BUSY WITH YOUR LIFE. AND PLEASE, DO NOT REPRESENT YOURSELF. THANK YOU, LYUBOV3.

Jimmy,

With 40 years of experience in the business you certainly are aware that even the experts at NGC and PCGS sometimes make mistakes, and that even reputable dealers could be caught unknowingly in rare cases.  99% of ebay buyers are hoping for a "good deal", and as is often the case... you get what you pay for.  1% are experts at both navigating ebay's shark infested waters and avoiding the pitfalls of the other 99%.  You have encountered a one percenter.  While we wait for the response from NGC, it would benefit you to go back and carefully study all the details around this particular case.  Your reputation as a dealer is at stake, on one of the most respected forums regarding MCC coins.

silver222

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2012, 09:05:59 PM »
I once encountered an eBay seller, claimed to have 50+ years of experience, that called me every names in the book and insulted my family when I try to inform him the 1989 silver panda listed is not a Proof because it does not have a circle P marking.

Just my 2 cents.

Offline silver222

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2012, 12:57:50 AM »
Unfortunately this was very common in the early ebay days when both sellers and buyers could leave feedback openly.  The worst sellers always complained the loudest, proclaiming their innocence and slamming reputable buyers with slander, name calling and worse!  Many Sellers disliked the early system, but as a buyer, I quite liked it because you could immediately tell which sellers to avoid... not by the fact that they didn't have 100% feedback, but by the character of their response to issues that always arise when dealing large volumes of sales.

Jimmy's response here on the forum reminded me of those early ebay days.  No $$$ will be flowing from these pockets to his account until a more reasonable response is posted, of which he should have the opportunity.  Having reputable dealers participate in the forum has proven beneficial in the past, to both dealers and buyers, even when suspicious behavior was brought to light.  The bad ones will avoid forums like this like the plague!

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2012, 01:38:41 PM »
I bought this replica of Mazu for $2.25 (plus $4 shipping) for the specific purpose of sacrificing it to the science of numismatics.  It was specifically stated as replica in the eBay auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221161177967?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here are some statistics:  6.49g (I calibrated my digital scale by measuring a silver eagle which reads 31.10g) and non magnetic.  I'm soliciting inputs to test it, eventually I will saw it in half.  But first, do we believe this is the same type of Mazu fake that got placed in NGC holders?

I took a number of photo with different angle of light and tilted the coins slightly.  First the obverse.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2012, 01:41:26 PM »
Now the reverse.  You can see the coin is quite dirty.  I have already dipped it in acetone for a few hours.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2012, 01:45:26 PM »
Please let me know how you want to test it.

Does anyone has access to a XRF?  I can sent the coin to whomever with XRF access.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »
I bought this replica of Mazu for $2.25 (plus $4 shipping) for the specific purpose of sacrificing it to the science of numismatics.  ?....eventually I will saw it in half. 

Hey I wanted to buy that fake medal too, for the exact same purpose, but got busy and missed the auction end.  I didn't want it bid up - can you imagine both you and I bidding up the price of a fake,  with both of us only intending to cut it in half and take photos? LOL!

I am glad you "won" it- now I will rest easy now knowing it'll be analyzed and shown.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2012, 02:23:56 PM »
A close friend of mine works with x-ray technology, but is out of the country until early January. I won't be able to contact him until then. He might have the equipment necessary to test the coin. He designs equipment for airports, etc.


Offline dynamike51

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2012, 12:59:52 AM »
More fakes showing up...In Fake NGC holders.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-CHINA-GOLD-1-4-OZ-MAZU-PF-69-ULTRA-CAMEO-/281040050139?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item416f4ad7db


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-CHINA-GOLD-1-4-OZ-PANDA-NEW-YORK-EXPO-PF-69-ULTRA-CAMEO-/281040047161?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item416f4acc39

This seller, lyubov3 (a.k.a jimmy), had that coin returned to him many times. Yet he's still trying to sell it as "genuine", hoping to catch a unsuspecting victim. This is an unscrupulous seller by any standard. Let's band together and boycott him.