Author Topic: Fake NGC slab danger  (Read 110832 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Offline panda88

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Offline NBM

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Offline silverstar1

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #108 on: January 06, 2013, 11:54:06 PM »

Offline comeaux

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #109 on: January 06, 2013, 11:58:33 PM »
NGC has marked it's cert "Grade:DELETED"
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3497329-009
Do we know yet what "Grade:DELETED" means?

Here is one example of what it represents:

NGC coin # 2766829-040 (Guangzhou Panda) was submitted to NCS for conservation then re-holdered as #3688437-001 after it was sent from NCS to NGC. 

Now if you perform certification lookup for #2766829-040 it gives a description of the coin but grade states “deleted”

This is done because the initial certification number has been removed/deleted in order to keep the census numbers accurate or as accurate as reasonably possible.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2013, 12:10:59 AM »
Thanks Comeaux , That is very interesting and seems to make sense ..
There is probably answers to alot of questions that just need to be translated

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2013, 12:14:21 AM »
Reported. This is the same fake coin in fake NGC holder in previously removed list (170968384959). This time, the same seller is trying one day listing to avoid being reported.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #112 on: January 07, 2013, 12:17:35 AM »
Reported. This is the same fake coin in fake NGC holder in previously removed list (170968384959). This time, the same seller is trying one day listing to avoid being reported.
Auction ended , That was fast....

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #113 on: January 07, 2013, 12:41:41 AM »
Here is one example of what it represents:

NGC coin # 2766829-040 (Guangzhou Panda) was submitted to NCS for conservation then re-holdered as #3688437-001 after it was sent from NCS to NGC. 

Now if you perform certification lookup for #2766829-040 it gives a description of the coin but grade states “deleted”

This is done because the initial certification number has been removed/deleted in order to keep the census numbers accurate or as accurate as reasonably possible.


All fake coins in fake NGC holders discussed in this thread show grade deleted at NGC website.  Are you suggesting that those deleted Cert. #s are being used by counterfeiters for their fake holder?

Offline comeaux

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #114 on: January 07, 2013, 01:08:17 AM »
All fake coins in fake NGC holders discussed in this thread show grade deleted at NGC website.  Are you suggesting that those deleted Cert. #s are being used by counterfeiters for their fake holder?

poconopenn it is a possibility that is one scenario of what is happening, I can’t say for sure but I will communicate this question to one of the contacts I have at NGC tomorrow. There is at least one (or a few) from NGC that visit this site on random occasions to read but it’s possible there may be some hesitance to post here.

The coin example that I posted is real scenario and the coin certification numbers are correct, I know this because I personally submitted the coin to NCS for conservation. The grade on the original certification number did not reveal “deleted” until it was NCS conserved, re-holdered and shipped back with it’s new certification number.   

These thieves are obviously using various methods to obtain “deleted” coin certifications for the purpose of slabbing their fake coins.   

Offline NBM

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #115 on: January 07, 2013, 03:05:05 AM »
Here is one example of what it represents:

NGC coin # 2766829-040 (Guangzhou Panda) was submitted to NCS for conservation then re-holdered as #3688437-001 after it was sent from NCS to NGC. 

Now if you perform certification lookup for #2766829-040 it gives a description of the coin but grade states “deleted”

This is done because the initial certification number has been removed/deleted in order to keep the census numbers accurate or as accurate as reasonably possible.


So we can we assume any coin offered for sale with a "Grade:DELETED" cert is fake?

Offline comeaux

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #116 on: January 07, 2013, 10:54:20 AM »
So we can we assume any coin offered for sale with a "Grade:DELETED" cert is fake?
I think that could be a fair assumption …           

Offline NBM

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #117 on: January 07, 2013, 11:47:07 AM »
I think that could be a fair assumption …           
+1 applaud Thank you.
Adding this information to our fraud reports may be the fastest way to get eBay to pull them.
  ;)

Offline comeaux

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #118 on: January 07, 2013, 05:43:00 PM »
All fake coins in fake NGC holders discussed in this thread show grade deleted at NGC website.  Are you suggesting that those deleted Cert. #s are being used by counterfeiters for their fake holder?
Hello poconopenn ... here is what has been conveyed by NGC regarding "deleted"

"There are a number of reasons why a certification number might show up as "deleted," such as a coin being regraded, a coin being cracked out and the tag returned, etc. If you see a coin for sale with a cert number that has been deleted, you should contact NGC so that we can look into it. In many cases it may be a simple database error, but in a few instances there are counterfeit NGC holders that use deleted cert numbers"

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fake NGC slab danger
« Reply #119 on: January 07, 2013, 07:50:53 PM »
I bought this replica of Mazu for $2.25 (plus $4 shipping) for the specific purpose of sacrificing it to the science of numismatics.  It was specifically stated as replica in the eBay auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221161177967?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here are some statistics:  6.49g (I calibrated my digital scale by measuring a silver eagle which reads 31.10g) and non magnetic.  I'm soliciting inputs to test it, eventually I will saw it in half.  But first, do we believe this is the same type of Mazu fake that got placed in NGC holders?
I made some more measurements:
Diameter, 21.8mm (should be 22mm)
thickness, 2.2mm
density, 8.9

I perform the density measurement by suspending the coin by a thin thread in water and measure the weight of displaced water.  Density is calculated by dividing dry weight (6.49g) by weight of displaced water (0.73g) =8.9.  Copper density at room temperature is 8.94 while gold is 19.3.  

I sent it off for XRF measurement and below is the report.  Summary:
2.03% gold
0.186% zinc
91.53 copper
6.26% nickel

So it is definitely a gold-plated Mazu replica.

Well, that's that.  Are there more tests you guys want me to do?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:54:29 PM by SANDAC »