Author Topic: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)  (Read 32317 times)

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Offline KONDi

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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2013, 07:58:29 AM »
Once again I found something in the article "The Coins of Shanghai" by A. M. Tracey Woodward.
I discovered that Woodward had seen this AU condition Half loaf with round hole and number 3391.
I don't think it was One loaf because as he mentioned very few Neil issued pieces were counterstamped.
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Offline KONDi

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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2013, 04:08:06 AM »
Here is a list of Hall & Holtz staff in 1892. I found it in "The directory chronicle for China and Japan - 1892" on page 120.

All together there are 27 employees working for H&H on that time. 2 of them: E.Byrne and H.J.Skeels were in London agency.

Enjoy as always N25
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2013, 04:10:20 AM »
Here is a link where I found original photo of Hall & Holtz store on Nanking 14:

http://sikhsinshanghai.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/1897-image-sikh-in-shanghai/

Speaking about Hall & Holtz it is worth to mention László Hudec, who was an active figure in years 1918-1945 in Shanghai.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Hudec
http://thatsmags.com/shanghai/articles/12315
http://www.hudec.cn/

He designed such of buildings in Shanghai as: Normandie Apartment - 1924, Moore Memorial Church - 1931, Park Hotel Shanghai - 1934 or others (see photos in attachment).

But to the point. I found László Hudec Collection of letters and invoices from Hall & Holtz from 1924 to 1925:

http://contentdm.library.uvic.ca/cdm/search/searchterm/Hall%20&%20Holtz/field/all/mode/all/conn/and/order/nosort/page/1

Thanks to his collection those important documents survived till now and say something about Hall & Holtz company (please take a look on sample of one such of invoice from Hall & Holtz from June 1924 to Hudec).

On page 1 of this post. There are 2 pictures: Hall & Holtz company-A and Hall & Holtz company-B.
Actually, those are 2 different buildings. B one is main headquarters of Hall and Holtz in 1897 (probably 22nd June 1897-full date). On page 2 of this post on picture "D" it is mentioned that it was on Nanking Road 14 (take a look on original photo in attachment).

Now take a look on page 1 of this post, picture: Hall & Holtz company-A. This is former Hall & Holtz building from 1906. It was rebuilt I believe because it looks different now (picture: Second Hall & Holtz building on Nanking Road 114).
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2013, 04:34:21 AM »
A couple days ago I found also on this website:
http://mdcls.blogspot.com/2013/03/welcome-to-shanghai.html

this short nore about Hall & Holtz company:

"Hall & Holtz was a reputable British firm established in 1885 and specialising in general merchandise from across the globe. These, their Shanghai offices, opened in 1906 and claimed to be the first department store in the city. The fanciful five-storey building had residential apartments on the top three floors – complete with Juliet balconies – while the store operated out of the ground and first floors. Their wide range of millinery, clothing, haberdashery and other Western merchandise made them an instant hit with expatriate women and wealthy Chinese."

I also found Hall & Holtz advertisement in "The Chinese Times" newspaper on page 638 from 4th October 1890.
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Offline pandamonium

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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2013, 09:35:55 AM »
Interesting history!......If the wealthy shopped at their stores, why the bread tokens?   Were they for the poor or just a medium of exchange like coins......

Offline KONDi

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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2013, 09:20:41 PM »
Dear pandamonium,

Bakery was their first business which they started in Shanghai. When the time went by their bakery became more and more famous and they had a lof of customers.

Then they had enough money to purchase in 1886 smaller bakery H.Evans & Co. Later they opened first department store in Shanghai and furniture factory, which produced and repaired furnitures.

They use bread tokens in their bakery, so when someone want to buy a bread, you had to first enter the store buy token from one person and go to another person to give him the token and that person will give you the bread.

Sometimes, someone bought few more tokens, so this time he will buy a few loaves and next time when he will come will buy another, so he doesn't have to buy tokens everytime when he comes to the store.
My point is that bread tokens never leave bakery, unless it was a situation which I mention above. I do not know the reason why they didn't use money directly.

Shanghai tokens can be divided on 3 cathegory: 1) before Japanese occupied Shanghai, 2) during Japanese occupation (1937-1945) and 3) after 1949-modern ones.

Hall & Holtz bread tokens belong to the first cathegory and they are all very rare and valuable.
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2013, 05:39:49 AM »
Here is some short note which I found in: "Revisiting the psychic distance paradox: international retailing in China in the long run 1840-2005" by Andrew Godley and Haiming Hang, School of Management Henley Business School University of Reading UK, page 13

I also found on page 15 and 17 in the same source about 4 Big Companies created by overseas Chinese and their sales record till 1936.

As always enjoy it! :001_smile:
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2013, 06:26:35 AM »
In "Revisiting the psychic distance paradox: international retailing in China in the long run 1840-2005" by Andrew Godley and Haiming Hang, School of Management Henley Business School University of Reading UK, page 15 on table 1 we can see that the Sincere department store has five floors

BUT in "Spectacular post-colonial cities: markets, ideology and globalization in the making of Shanghai and Hong Kong by Ying-Fen Huang (1st Aug. 2008)" page 119, it mention that it was four-storey building.

The same case with the Wing On department store. In the first document written by by Andrew Godley and Haiming Hang it says six floors

BUT in the document written by Ying-Fen Huang from 1st Aug. 2008 it says that it was five-storey building

So it is confusing.

Finally The Sun department store opened in 1936 in the first document mentioned about ten floors and in the second document from 2008 it says it was 12-storey building.

You can also find here 3 small notes from the document written by Ying-Fen Huang about Hall & Holtz on page 118 (2 notes) and page 119 (1 note).
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2013, 06:09:00 AM »
I found some photos how the Hall & Holtz building looked like in 1897, 1906? and 2013. Previously I claimed that the building from 1897 is different from building from 1906 and 2013 (those 2 are the same building). Actually the buidling in 1897 could be the same as the one in 1906 and the one in 2013. I think that Hall & Holtz building from 1897 to 2013 was successfully rebuilt. The building in 1897 was located on Nanking rd 14. But that was in old times. Nanking road was the main road in Shanghai but not so big as nowadays, where we have west nanking rd and east nanking rd. and on Hall & Holtz building there is a plate 114. So there was 2 Hall & Holtz building? NO! in modern times Nanking rd extended, that's why in old Shanghai the building has number 14 and now it is number 114.
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2013, 06:15:12 AM »
In Hall & Holtz was working also Charles McLeod Bain. This is mentioned in "Men of Shanghai and north China" from 1933 on page 16.
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2013, 07:38:14 AM »
As you know or probably don't know. In Shanghai there was 4 "Old department stores":
1) Hall & Holtz,
2) Lane Crawford,
3) Whiteaway Laidlaw,
4) Weeks & Company.

There were all British and all foreigners were doing shopping there.

Then..."The Big Four Companies":
1) Wing On,
2) Sincere,
3) The Sun Sun,
4) The Sun

...established stores later in Shanghai and were dealing with Chinese customers. If I am not wrong Wing On company was the first one, which opened department store in Shanghai in 1917.

Wing On company opened their store in Shanghai on 5th September 1918 and Sincere on 20th October 1917---this is correct.
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2014, 05:00:43 AM »
Hall & Holtz bread tokens never lose their inner beauty. The token from this picture speaks for itself...
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Re: The mystery of bread token from old Shanghai (1895-1925)
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2016, 05:16:41 AM »
In Shanghai Fire Department 1866-1916 Book I found photo of Hall & Holtz Ltd furniture factory and on the left side there is a sign "BAKERY". It is not so clear but clear enough to judge that there was a Hall & Holtz bakery and furniture factory on Soochow Road in the same building. On page 5 in this post I mentioned that there were two interviews with two managers of Hall & Holtz that there were old books which were destroyed in a fire some years ago. I am wondering was it a fire on 5th March 1914?
In other book where are listed all companies from old Shanghai where Hall & Holtz was located in several places. During years 1899-1901 one of the address of the company was 4 Cor. of Yuen Ming Yuen and Soochow Rds. I also found photo how the company looked like before or after fire. There is too much confusion in my head about when the old books about Hall & Holtz tokens were burned. Was it a fire in 1914 later. Howere this is indeed interesting information added to this post.
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