Author Topic: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?  (Read 20709 times)

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Offline dobedo

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 08:43:21 PM »
誠信為本、忠義為道.
What? No way ... I thought it's Wu Wei 無為為道 :-)

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2012, 09:05:52 PM »
不择手段, 欲海无边

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2012, 09:19:33 PM »


If anyone is interested, some industry feedback that I've gotten has been along the lines of, "The German dealer should have bought the coin back, even if it cost him several hundred thousand Dollars. If you are willing to make money from high-priced coins, then you have to stand up and be counted when things don't go your way. " Had that been done, none of us would have ever heard of this incident. OTOH, no one has defended the decision to auction a coin when the title to it has been questioned. I don't think it's a good thing when the auctioneer puts his own interests ahead of his customers.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.com

Poconopenn and Peter have put it best, in this instance, IMO.
The German dealer seems to have made an error, and should have made it right by compensating the buyer.

It would have been an interesting court case.

Ethics is another matter, even though common ethics forms the basis for trust between two parties.  
A good question, is: what is ethical?  What are your ethics?  If a widow set out a rare  $10,000 coin from her former husbands collection in her garage sale, do you snap it up for her offered fifty cents, or do you notify her of its real value?
Did you ever make a "steal" of a deal from some uninformed seller who didnt know the full value of their coin? Did you feel ethically compelled to find out if they were aware of its value? Or rub your hands together in glee that you made a "steal"?
Are buyers obligated to try to clarify value from private collectors, vs dealers?  Is it "dog eat dog" at the highest level? Are there any changes to ethics along this continuum?

Offline badon

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2012, 09:22:01 PM »
I think the ethics in this situation are much more clear. The coin is actually the property of someone else, and was sold by mistake. I don't think any buyer likes to be told he won't get what he thought he had bought, but that's easier to deal with than a property dispute that could pop up later.

Underbidder

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2012, 09:35:20 PM »
I think the ethics in this situation are much more clear.

I'm trying to determine how clear it is.  Is it only clear because its a big amount, and big players?

Is there an underlying principle involved that also covers smaller buyers and collectors, such as us on this board?
If, for example, you bought a set of Pagodas, (say), for a hundred bucks on ebay, ( the Sterling ones- what a deal! ) but found out a similar sitution had occured and the set had been previously bought by another buyer, would you return the set?  Or "finders/keepers, bought it fair and square"!

I think most of us posting here would return it, from the replies.

What if it were a 1982 Platinum Panda? With just a couple of specimens in the world, never to be seen again in all likelihood?  Would you return that?


« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:46:42 PM by Underbidder »

low

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2012, 09:50:08 PM »
I'm trying to determine how clear it is.  Is it only clear because its a big amount, and big players?

Is there an underlying principle involved that also covers smaller buyers and collectors, such as us on this board?
If, for example, you bought a set of Pagodas, (say), for a hundred bucks on ebay, ( what a deal! ) but found out a similar sitution had occured and the set had been previously bought by another buyer, would you return the set?

I will.

I can give another example. Several years ago I bought a supposed rare variety coin from an Australian dealer for about $400 (extremely small amount here.) A year later, the dealer refunded me the money for the reason he concluded (after very careful study with another very knowledgeable collector) the variety doesn't exist. He refunded me the money without asking me to return coin. I trusted his judgment and returned the coin to him.

In either case, he could just keep the money. I could also resell the coin (since I have got it for free now) and make some money.

Will I ever "steal" from unknowledgeable seller, if I know the fair market price? NO. In many cases, I even asked if the ebay seller would like to proceed with the sale when the price was way below real market price and I got a steal.

不择手段, 欲海无边

What? No way ... I thought it's Wu Wei 無為為道 :-)

I just have to say this.

宝贝当前,道义放两旁, 利字摆中间。

老外就是不明白,所谓先下手为强,后下手遭殃。在者,人不为己,天诛地灭。唉!

Hahaha.

Underbidder

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2012, 10:03:31 PM »
Low,
I like your answer. 

low

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2012, 10:18:53 PM »

Offline dobedo

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2012, 10:20:02 PM »
Low,
I like your answer, too. But I also like to reserve the right to respectfully disagree with you later. Hehehe.

low

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2012, 10:23:21 PM »
Low,
I like your answer, too. But I also like to reserve the right to respectively disagree with you later. Hehehe.

Sure. Hahaha.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2012, 10:28:05 PM »
Please note it was low who took it to a higher level first....
You know it is something serious when the idioms come out.
 :001_tongue:

low

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2012, 11:01:56 PM »
Please note it was low who took it to a higher level first....
You know it is something serious when the idioms come out.
 :001_tongue:

Hahaha.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2012, 11:23:24 PM »
Hmmm, I thought treasure hunting is a fun part of coin collecting.  If I found a valuable variety in a pawn shop, or if the coin I bought cheaply was later discovered as a rare specimen,  I'm pretty sure I won't insist on paying more for them, now or later.  Both examples are real, BTW

Offline badon

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2012, 11:44:34 PM »
I think the ethics in this situation are much more clear.

I'm trying to determine how clear it is.  Is it only clear because its a big amount, and big players?

Is there an underlying principle involved that also covers smaller buyers and collectors, such as us on this board?
If, for example, you bought a set of Pagodas, (say), for a hundred bucks on ebay, ( the Sterling ones- what a deal! ) but found out a similar sitution had occured and the set had been previously bought by another buyer, would you return the set?  Or "finders/keepers, bought it fair and square"!

I think most of us posting here would return it, from the replies.

What if it were a 1982 Platinum Panda? With just a couple of specimens in the world, never to be seen again in all likelihood?  Would you return that?

You might be reading more into that sentence than I actually wrote. Either way, I'd love to own a 1982 platinum panda, but only if it's truly mine, uncontested.

low

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Re: Daniel Zhao of Hosane Auctions controversy?
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2012, 12:05:15 AM »
还是老祖宗说得好,以和为贵,就原“币”归赵(涌)吧!