Author Topic: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals  (Read 19044 times)

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Offline shibaji

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2012, 02:37:22 AM »
So discount the sellers story,  there still is the issue of the pagodas being rejected as fakes ( your own words).
There is so much more to be learned, until anyone is certain about these. It may be that the solid lines are fake sterling, but real authentic plated.  Or fake plated, but that doesn't make as much sense. Thats why these may have, as you say, frosting issues too.  Poconopenn has a lot of wisdom IF you care to learn from him. Again, your choice as I see it... Learn from him now, or learn from him later.

:-)

Why don't you stop the gibberish and do something better for a change ? I am done replying to you.

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2012, 02:40:53 AM »
And none too soon.


I like you, but I have bad taste.

:-)

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2012, 02:49:03 AM »
Thank you Peter - I had a chat with him, and let's just say there are things that can happen in developing country, which are not expected to happen in developed countries. :-)

I rest my case, but also re-iterate that whatever I stated in earlier posts (about the medals) is the truth. Let's discount the discussion how these were obtained, as we are more interested in discussing about the medals, not the source.

Well, since you put it like that, yes I know of coins that were obtained through back channels. The big caveat here is that I also know of coins that came from a source of that nature that turned out to be of questionable authenticity. It was a very expensive experience for the buyer, too.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2012, 09:29:27 PM »
I asked NGC how many of the 260 pagodas sets have survivied.  They will get back to me.  NGC turned away many pagodas sets as specimen incorrect (or something like that). Now that the research on the pagodas is about done, they are willing to grade the sets they turned away.  If your set was returned earlier then send it for grading.........................

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2012, 02:57:34 PM »
I see NGC just added Gilt brass pagoda to their census report.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2012, 03:29:52 PM »
All these talks about Pagoda have not drive up the population much.  Come on folks!  Give me a "P"...


Offline pandamonium

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2012, 06:56:43 PM »
PEE!...Looks like Badon may be right at about 100 sets left out of 260 minted............................

Offline badon

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2012, 11:20:10 PM »
I have heard some rumors that there are dealers sitting on a few ungraded pagodas. I didn't hear anything about how many there were, though. I heard another rumor that there are Americans and/or Europeans who were buying them up a few months ago before the supply was depleted. I have heard some random unreliable rumors that said most of the graded pagodas on the market were being bought by one of the wealthy American collectors. Another rumor said that dealers were once again withdrawing their ungraded pagodas from the market. That usually happens when they expect price increases. Sometimes they expect price increases when too many people in a week call them asking for a particular coin.

The only thing I'm sure of is there are probably a few ungraded pagodas still out there. Some of the dealers I talked to seemed to be skeptical about my wild guess that there might be about 100 surviving sets, but so far, none of the rumors indicate that there could be the 36 additional sets out there that are required to reach 100 known sets.

I did hear one rumor that said whoever had ungraded sets was not willing to send them in for grading, due to people making assumptions about the mintage based on the ngc population. That rumor came from a reliable source, but the rumor didn't say whether it was talking about 1 set or more than 1 set.

That's all I know, for now. Thanks to SANDAC, we have some reliable numbers that seem to lean towards there being fewer pagodas out there, or at least a stabilizing population of them.

One interesting thing I found using the CC is that there have only been 27 different specimens sold publicly on eBay. Of those, CC5706 was sold twice. That means most of the known sets are either trading privately, or they're locked up in collections, which somewhat agrees with the rumors.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 11:21:33 AM by snowball »

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2012, 01:35:31 AM »
My thought process was that there are so much controversies about the authenticity of Pagodas and at $1000 per coin, owners of the ungraded Pagoda should be motivated to send them to NGC/PCGS.  The population should therefore represent the majority of the surviving Pagoda.  The historical chart also shows the population of the individual coins are in tight bundle and run parallel to each others over time.  That means the coins are submitted as a set, and there are very few (or none) instances of crack-out-of-slab-and-resubmit.

Offline badon

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2012, 01:59:22 AM »
The historical chart also shows the population of the individual coins are in tight bundle and run parallel to each others over time.  That means the coins are submitted as a set, and there are very few (or none) instances of crack-out-of-slab-and-resubmit.

Very insightful. I'm ashamed to admit that I hadn't thought of that. When you spell it out for me, it's obvious. Excellent research, and excellent conclusions, SANDAC. I know of a few coins that were sent back in for grading, but I don't think any of those were cracked out of the slabs, so they don't affect the population numbers.

I have heard rumors of people buying up lower grade pagodas in the hope of scoring a 69 when they get resubmitted. I have seen a few pagodas with lower grades that look like they could easily get a 69 if resubmitted. One of them was a 66! It was in pristine condition, except for very unattractive toning that NCS can easily remove. I resubmitted a few pagodas myself, and I got better grades each time I tried it. That's one way to put together a 69 set when there are no 69's available on the market anymore. For about $25 to $50 in grading fees, shipping, etc you can double the value of the coin if you get a 69 out of a lower grade.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2012, 02:05:42 PM »
Please do not spread the rumors (5 rumors in a single posting) while writing investment recomendation for the same coin.  This is not an acceptable practice in my book, especially from moderator/admininstrator of this forum.  There was enough damage done by you in the past by claiming all plated pagoda medals were fake.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 11:19:49 AM by snowball »

Offline sasushi

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2012, 02:12:33 PM »
I think same was said about plated goldfishes....we all do our guesses (or wishes) on topics that haven t had a lot of research ...

Offline badon

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2012, 03:43:48 PM »
Please do not spread the rumors (5 rumors in a single posting) while writing investment recomendation for the same coin.  This is not an acceptable practice in my book, especially from moderator/admininstrator of this forum.  There was enough damage done by you in the past by claiming all plated pagoda medals were fake.

I'm sharing the information I have. I only claimed all the plated pagodas I have seen in person were fake, and I was right. That information saved people a lot of money that they might have lost by investing in a coin that wasn't what they expected it to be. That's not damage.

As much information as I publish in a week, it's inevitable that somebody somewhere is going to be unhappy with it. But, overall, I think the information is well-received because it is useful and reliable. The fact that you have to dig so deep to find one post of mine that could possibly be construed as an error is a testament to the quality of the information I provide. I've written thousands of posts during the last several years...

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2012, 03:45:05 PM »
Please do not spread the rumors (5 rumors in a single posting) while writing investment recomendation for the same coin.  This is not an acceptable practice in my book, especially from moderator/admininstrator of this forum.  There was enough damage done by you in the past by claiming all plated pagoda medals were fake.

Can we have an "Amen" ?

Offline MrOrganic

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Re: NGC Response Regarding The Authentication Of Pagoda Medals
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2012, 12:57:29 AM »
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