Topic: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?

[Gilmore]

Hi Goldpig,
Can you please check the weight of each set, silver and silver plated, including the capsules and mint wraps?

Thanks.

[pandamonium]

Does anyone have the mintage for the silver goldfish, silver plate and gilt copper goldfish?  Could the plated sets rise in value when the real silver sets take off again?  Rumors I have heard is that the pagoda sets that are silver plate may be the rarest.  Any other information on that?  Due to many fakes, these sets may be cast aside.  Should they be cast aside or collected?   If the fantasy coins such as the 1992 silver proof pandas w/ torch mark are rare and expensive then why not real silver plate pagodas?  It may not sound right at this time but they may be the most overlooked and undervalued MCC.... MAYBE ......................

[Underbidder]

i recently saw one 1984 silver double sealed set and one 1984 silver plated double sealed set.

the plastic pouches for the silver goldfish had that light blue tint, felt rubbery and had a light sweet smell. = real?

the plastic pouches for the silver plated fish were clear,  felt rigid and had a more plastic smell.= fake?

Any info about the pouches for the silver plated goldfish?

Thanks for that bit of info, Goldpig.  Very interesting.

OMP can sometimes be used to give valuable clues.
But when out of the OMP, other methods need to be employed. 
Do you see any noticeable differences between the medals surface under high mag?
How did you conclude one set is Sterling and the other plated?

[shibaji]

Does anyone have the mintage for the silver goldfish, silver plate and gilt copper goldfish?  Could the plated sets rise in value when the real silver sets take off again?  Rumors I have heard is that the pagoda sets that are silver plate may be the rarest.  Any other information on that?  Due to many fakes, these sets may be cast aside.  Should they be cast aside or collected?   If the fantasy coins such as the 1992 silver proof pandas w/ torch mark are rare and expensive then why not real silver plate pagodas?  It may not sound right at this time but they may be the most overlooked and undervalued MCC.... MAYBE ......................

I am yet to see a silver plated pagoda set, or copper pagoda set for sale. Have not found any despite searching for them.

[Pandana]

Gold fish, pagoda ... no matter how we slice it --- they are not worth the dollars.  I, for one will not spend any to buy these medals.

Offical/unoffical? 
Silver/plated/brass?
Varieties?
what control further production?

All are speculations?  is this good, educated guess investment? collection?

Worth the dollars?  there are tons of other collectible, valuable MCC for us to choose and spend our dollars.

My 2 cents

[bonke]

I doubt if many silver goldfish sets exist.  It is probably not worth arguing whether it is or is not appropriate to spend money on silver goldfish when the mintage is (most likely) too low to even meet the needs of a few members of this forum. 

Silver pagoda sets are different.  Every month, there is an opportunity to purchase a silver pagoda set.  The buyer may or may not like the price, but the sets are available.  As time passes, this will change.  Prices will move up and down until, one day, the sets will be in the hands of serious collectors and they will be gone.  A mintage of 260 is small, very small.

I agree that there are plenty of other places to spend our dollars.  [Still, if I see another silver goldfish medal or set at a price which I decide is "reasonable", I will purchase it immediately to add to my collection.]

Mark Bonke

[shibaji]

Gold fish, pagoda ... no matter how we slice it --- they are not worth the dollars.  I, for one will not spend any to buy these medals.

Thank you. Wise choice - please spend your money elsewhere. One less contender in the market.

[comeaux]

I also have little or no interest in these coins.  When I first started collecting Modern Chinese Coins I nearly spent a very large sum of money on a Pagoda set.  I am very glad I did not as I have since seen the prices crash.  Will these someday make a good investment.  Could be, but the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth and a lot of it had to do with the hype of this forum.  I learned a lesson and fortunately not an expensive one.

I also don't really love the designs.  That is just my personal opinion of course.  I love the Temple of Heaven on the front of Pandas and all the various buildings / pagodas on the back of the early lunar coins.  I wish they had continued using those designs on the Lunars series.  But the almost cartoony designs of the pagodas don't do it for me.  And frankly those bug eye fish are kinda ugly!

Lastly, at current price levels maybe I should own some but I just can't bring myself to spend even a few hundred a coin on these, especially now that we have silver, silver plated, gilded, etc.

Gold fish, pagoda ... no matter how we slice it --- they are not worth the dollars.  I, for one will not spend any to buy these medals.

Offical/unoffical? 
Silver/plated/brass?
Varieties?
what control further production?

All are speculations?  is this good, educated guess investment? collection?

Worth the dollars?  there are tons of other collectible, valuable MCC for us to choose and spend our dollars.
My 2 cents

I agree guys ... totally legitimate concerns.

My initial post in this thread was to answer the OP question “If you do not own them, would you purchase them?” In which I truthfully answered “no I have no interest and would not buy”. 

I gave no reasons as to why I am not interested but my thoughts are pretty much in line with obsidian and pandana. I’m starting to see more MCC collectors with this exact sentiment as well.

As obsidian mentioned, although these coins can now be bought for a few hundred each, it still does not have any influence or motivation for me to purchase them.

It’s obvious that the demand is nowhere close to what it once was which I guess makes it good for those looking to load up on cheap coins at bottom-feeder prices.

In my opinion if you are buying these coins as an investor … unless you don’t mind waiting 20 years (or longer) to possibly get a return, I’d avoid them like the plague. Like others have already said … there are too many great coins to buy right now so why deal with problem coins.

   

[shibaji]

... and why are these problem coins comeaux?

I understand people will have different choices, but fail to understand the eagerness to advice others on what to do or not. Very weird. Would you pay the difference in money lost if pagoda/goldfish sets rise in price in couple of years instead of next 20 years ? Half baked knowledge is very dangerous. None of you are experts in MCC, so try and be within that limit - instead of expressing your choice for these, as the thread heading says, this is now becoming thread-crapping.

[Pandana]

Friends/Colleagues (collector),
I would like to state that I, for one am a novice collector and I respect all viewpoints. 

As for me, looking at the "medal" - especially medals; one key question keep bugging me again and again: 

"what guarantees the mintage, the production number?"  as these are medals, and can be issued by any production house/manufacturers, what would stop them to provide more in number?  one can say that, well - but the year would make it "rare" for the year rpoduced; but this is not "coins" and thus no numismatics nor control in production number is in place from the source.

Thus far, I have followed the thread, and all I see is discussion very close or that of speculative nature; and very close to "pump and dump".

I suspect that if any of us were in China right now; to those frequent touristry places - it would not be hard to see many of these medals.  So are they collectible - maybe a yes; investment value - no.

I will buy it, if I like it enough - but as a novelty to mark my trip as a souvernir, because of the design, of the drawing -- certainly not as collectible/investable items.

Regards

[comeaux]

Friends/Colleagues (collector),
I would like to state that I, for one am a novice collector and I respect all viewpoints. 

As for me, looking at the "medal" - especially medals; one key question keep bugging me again and again: 

"what guarantees the mintage, the production number?"  as these are medals, and can be issued by any production house/manufacturers, what would stop them to provide more in number?  one can say that, well - but the year would make it "rare" for the year rpoduced; but this is not "coins" and thus no numismatics nor control in production number is in place from the source.

Thus far, I have followed the thread, and all I see is discussion very close or that of speculative nature; and very close to "pump and dump".

I suspect that if any of us were in China right now; to those frequent touristry places - it would not be hard to see many of these medals.  So are they collectible - maybe a yes; investment value - no.

I will buy it, if I like it enough - but as a novelty to mark my trip as a souvernir, because of the design, of the drawing -- certainly not as collectible/investable items.

Regards

[comeaux]

... and why are these problem coins comeaux?

I understand people will have different choices, but fail to understand the eagerness to advice others on what to do or not. Very weird. Would you pay the difference in money lost if pagoda/goldfish sets rise in price in couple of years instead of next 20 years ? Half baked knowledge is very dangerous. None of you are experts in MCC, so try and be within that limit - instead of expressing your choice for these, as the thread heading says, this is now becoming thread-crapping.

Hello Shibaji …

I think you may be taking general discussion and viewpoints of other members just a little too personal.

You state that you “understand” people will have different choices but your actions convey otherwise as any post that does not align with your viewpoint is immediately met with a rapid-fire defensive response as if you are guarding this thread/coins with your life on 24 hour surveillance.        

First off I have never claimed to be an “expert” yet I did not understand that to be criteria before making a post in this thread.  I may not be an “expert” by your standards but I have done and continue to do extensive research in MCC which I do believe has given me excellent fundamentals before investing over $100K of my family’s money into this fascinating collection. To be honest I think there may only be 4 or 5 “experts” on this forum and not even those few members know everything about every MCC coin so if a member has to be an expert by your expectations before posting a viewpoint of opinion … CCF would be a ghost town.    

Also let me remind you that the original poster of this thread asked the question “if you do not own these would you buy them” … why are you so vehemently against other members answering this question and logically explaining why they would not buy them? Your assertion of “thread capping” is baseless. I gave my HONEST OPINION … if you take it as advice then that is your prerogative.  

You just thanked one of the previous posters for showing no interest in these medals so that you would have no competition/contenders and now you attack me for the same viewpoint? Yea … something is REALLY weird here …  

So anyway like I stated in my original post to this thread …  

“As I am a collector I always say that there is no right or wrong way … collect what brings you joy.”

I would also like to add that I would hope that anyone who does invest in these medals would prosper from it in the future …

[pandamonium]

The more I research the pagodas, they are not problem coins.  The problem of being plated is denied by NGC.  The tools they have today are more advanced for detecting metal type in coins.  The mintage may be accurate as Mr Ge agrees.  Not much argument on mintage.  Still waiting for the NGC representative to post here and i am sure he will answer questions.  When that happens it should clear up most of the concerns and questions.  Medals are copied but not all of them pass the graders.  Maybe all the debate over these coins will take them to a higher price.  My new collector friends want one after reading some heated posts.  These two medals have had more press than most other MCC, maybe that is good.................

[shibaji]

Dear Comeaux,

I have no problem with your opinion/sentiment. This was the offending line:

"In my opinion if you are buying these coins as an investor … unless you don’t mind waiting 20 years (or longer) to possibly get a return, I’d avoid them like the plague. Like others have already said … there are too many great coins to buy right now so why deal with problem coins."

Anyhow, in your last post you have kind of neutralized it, so all is good.

Cheers!

[poconopenn]

i recently saw one 1984 silver double sealed set and one 1984 silver plated double sealed set.

the plastic pouches for the silver goldfish had that light blue tint, felt rubbery and had a light sweet smell. = real?

the plastic pouches for the silver plated fish were clear,  felt rigid and had a more plastic smell.= fake?

Any info about the pouches for the silver plated goldfish?

It is my understanding that double sealed mint package was not done to any MCC until 1987, after the formation and incorporation of China Gold Coin Inc. IMO, all 4-coin double sealed in sheet was done later, most likely during last few years. Be very careful when you buy pagoda or goldfish set in 4-coin double sealed sheet. They are not OMP.