Author Topic: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?  (Read 36628 times)

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Offline bonke

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What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« on: May 18, 2012, 03:53:55 PM »
Greetings

Month after month, coin forum members discussed the one-fish design goldfish medals.  Now, NGC has completed its research and is authenticating, grading and slabbing (1984) silver goldfish, (1984) silver-plated brass goldfish and (1984) gilt-plated brass goldfish.

If you already own (1984) goldfish, will you keep them or sell them?

If you keep them, will you send them to NGC for authentication, grading and slabbing?

If you do not already own them, will you purchase them?  silver?  silver-plated brass?  gilt-plated brass?

As a collector of modern Chinese coins and medals, I know what I will do.  After all of this lengthy discussion, I will be pleased to know what you will do.

Mark Bonke

Offline sasushi

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 04:14:36 PM »
I will get mine graded and sell them - to finance some other chinese silver coins. Somehow I m into chinese siler coins, no pandas, no gold ...
Bought two sets - one got stolen in the post  :crying: - the other is the plated version 1984
Regards Sasushi

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2012, 06:30:37 PM »


As a collector of modern Chinese coins and medals, I know what I will do. 

So, what have you decided to do?



I have a couple sets of each 1984 and 1990, both silver, not plate, I believe, and gold gilt, all in OMP, and that's how I prefer 'em and that's the way they will stay.

I love the artistic design and the unique carved style, and I think they are classics.

I believe are ways to tell if one has sterling or silver plate, without having to send them in for grading, and that will help clear up this medal's murky past.


Offline bonke

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 07:22:27 PM »
Without the NGC metal testing, it is my opinion that it is very difficult to tell whether the medals are silver or silver-plated brass.  I have tried to look carefully at the medals in my collection and I have not found a "tell" which will easily allow me to tell the difference.  [In the correct lighting, there seems to be a different color or tone in both the field and in the raised designs.  In other lighting, I cannot see the difference.] If you know how to tell the difference and are willing to share this information with us, I am certain that we will all appreciate it.  Mark Bonke

Offline poconopenn

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 09:05:16 PM »
A “Ring Test” is a simple test that can be performed to estimate the silver content. The coin to be tested is balanced on the tip of a finger then struck lightly with a known silver coin, such as 1964 JFK half dollar or low grade silver dollar, on the edge. If the coin is sliver it will ring for several seconds with a sweet, high-pitched sound. The higher the silver content, the longer the ring will last. Try to practice first with 1964 JFK half dollar (0.3685 silver purity) to learn the pitched sound of low silver content and then low grade silver dollar (0.90 or higher silver purity) for high silver content. Similar to Cu-Ni JFK half dollar (post-1964), silver plated copper coin will not ring.

Light touch to the edge of the rim will not damage your coin. Just make sure to perform this test on top of a soft surface, in case you drop the coin.

The silver plated medal weighs 16.7 gm. I do not know the weight of 0.900 silver medal, since I have never seen one.

Offline bonke

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 09:22:11 PM »
The NGC announcement of its position concerning the (1984) goldfish medals includes pictures of silver, silver-plated brass and gilt-plated brass goldfish medals in NGC slabs.  In theory, a person could visit the NGC site and look at the magnified pictures of the medals in these slabs.  Is this as helpful as holding one in your hand and looking at it?  I do not know. 

Thank you for the suggestion about testing the silver metal content.  I immediately started laughing as I read your suggestions.  I am so careless.  If I would try to test the metal content using this technique, I am certain that I would damage the medals.  This is one of the reasons that I get items in my collection slabbed.  I am trying to protect my coins and medals from my careless actions.

Mark Bonke     

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 09:30:37 PM »
The "ring test" is admittedly difficult to do, as is weighing, if your medal is still in the OMP pouch or slabbed.

I have a couple of loose ones in their capsules, I'll try to dig them out and test them.

I examine everything under loops, and I have to trust a difference can be told between the crispness of the usual surface vs a plated one.
I will check what I have and do whichever tests I can on the loose ones.  Its been several months since I did this so it'll be a refresher. Back then I was following Poconopenns detailed photos on a thread on what plated details look like magnified, and I think it showed some of the differences well.

Now I just have to find the time to find my diving gear.

Offline bonke

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 02:46:30 PM »
The discussion about the (1984) and (1990) goldfish medals was extensive.  Along the way, I purchased multiple sets of these medals.  I thought other coin forum members were also purchasing these medals.  Now, with NGC's decision to grade silver, silver-plated brass and gilt-plated brass goldfish medals, I thought many, many coin forum members would be sending their medals to NGC for metal analysis, authentication, grading and slabbing.  I thought we would have much more information about the rarity of these medals within the next few months.  Are there 10 silver sets?  20 sets?  30 sets? or more?  We will never know if the owners do not submit their sets for metal analysis.  No matter what you think or feel, there may be no substitute for the metal analysis by NGC.  I welcome your comments.  Mark Bonke

Offline dobedo

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 09:44:41 PM »
"If you do not already own them, will you purchase them?"

Mark, Sorry to disappoint you, but the goldfish and I just don't see any future in each other. Our relationship remains fishy.

Offline badon

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2012, 09:39:02 PM »
A “Ring Test” is a simple test that can be performed to estimate the silver content. The coin to be tested is balanced on the tip of a finger then struck lightly with a known silver coin, such as 1964 JFK half dollar or low grade silver dollar, on the edge.

...

Light touch to the edge of the rim will not damage your coin. Just make sure to perform this test on top of a soft surface, in case you drop the coin.

Although the ring test works, I strongly advise everyone to NOT do this. It can and will damage your pristine proof coins, and that's assuming you don't drop it or leave fingerprints all over it. If you do it with a scraped up old coin, the damage it does is not as noticeable, but I still cringe every time I see someone do it. 50 years of collectors doing that to their coins eventually reduces them to a pile of oxidized dust. For some reason, it's only Chinese collectors that I've seen do it.

Although I still don't recommend it, it is possible to do a ring test without damaging the coin. Using a hard rod of plastic or wood will make it ring, and since it's much softer than the silver, the rod will take most of the damage instead of the coin. But, remember, all physical contact damages coins, no matter how light and careful it is. If you don't believe me, go handle a bunch of coins, and then look at the "dirt" on your hands. That "dirt" used to be a coin!

A coin can survive in pristine condition for 3000+ years buried in mud, but it won't last 50 years in the hands of collectors that touch the coins unnecessarily. Every touch takes away a little of the surface of the coin. For silver, that surface is actually an oxide passivation layer that stops corrosion before it can start. When you touch a coin, you may not think you have touched it enough to damage it, but what you have done is accidentally wipe away the oxide passivation layer. After that, the oxygen in the atmosphere is able to penetrate and attack the unprotected silver (or any coinage metal, except usually gold, platinum, and palladium).

So, a finger on a coin is not just a finger. It's actually very much like a quick dip in a mild acid. That's why circulating coins appear "worn". There are not enough fingers in the world to wear away the surface of silver coin. Silver is too hard, and it would just leave a lot of bloody stumps in its path. But, the oxygen in the atmosphere has an ally in "blind" people who see with their hands. The fingers wipe away the oxide passivation layer, and the oxygen (etc) in the atmosphere does the rest.

If a mushy finger can do that kind of damage, imagine what clanking coins together can do...

Offline sasushi

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 09:55:10 PM »
Hello Bonke

sent my plated ones to ncs (bought for 79 USD) - lets see what happens - fake or real - I ll keep you informed.

regards
sasushi

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 10:03:19 PM »
NGC now has notations in their population reports for plated goldfish.

Offline sasushi

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2012, 05:22:19 PM »
finally they goldfish (silver plated) got graded....

3627475-005 / -008

So at least they were real - any ideas about the mintage???

Offline shibaji

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2012, 06:06:47 PM »
Population is 2 for all silver plated versions, 4 for gilt brass version, 6 for silver versions (all 1984) - the silver version has 7 for "pearl scales", but only 6 complete sets.

Offline comeaux

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Re: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2012, 06:59:02 PM »
If you do not already own them, will you purchase them?

As I am a collector I always say that there is no right or wrong way … collect what brings you joy.
 
To answer the original question truthfully and coming from a collector’s point of view … these goldfish medals (pagodas as well) do not attract me and I will not buy them. It’s nothing meant to be condescending to those that own them but that’s just me …

I can appreciate the reverence and fascination others have for these medals but I will not buy them.