Topic: What are your future plans re (1984) goldfish medals?

[pandamonium]

There is a good possibility the 2 sets MAY be sold to CCF members since posting them a few hours ago.  Contacted numerous ebay sellers (30?) and others.  These 2 sets and 1 at NGC is all I could find.  Even the singles were picked up recently.  Someone is buying them up................

[poconopenn]

The attached table provides the ranking of 1984 pagoda silver and 1990 goldfish silver sets given by Mr. Ge and Mr. Huang in their published book and article. Seven medals which mentioned frequently in this forum also are provided in the table as reference. Hopefully, this can help you make intelligent judgment to assess the value of pagoda and goldfish if they are undervalued or overvalued.

Mr. Ge uses a five stars system and Mr. Huang is six stars system. Both did not include 1984 goldfish silver set in their medal listings. NGC must know something more than these two well-known numismatists.


                                                              Huang          Ge
1984 Pagoda silver set                              *** ½*      ****
1990 Goldfish silver set                             *** ½*       No *
1984 Great Wall (matte), 3.3 tael silver       *** ½*      *****
1984 HK International Expo 1 oz silver        ****          ****
1988 ANA Cincinnati Show 1 oz silver          *** ½*     ** ½*
1996 Munich 1 oz silver                             *** ½*      **
1988 H.K Show, 5 oz silver                        *** ½*      ***
1997, Munich 1 oz  silver                           ****          ***
1987 God of Longevity 3.3 tael silver          *** ½*      **

[Gilmore]

Thank you Poconopenn for the list. I am glad to see that the 2 experts are in agreement about the 1984 HK International Expo 1 oz silver. Both of them rate it at 4 stars. It has a mintage of 1000, 4 times higher than the pagodas, and yet not as often seen as the pagodas. Looking at NGC's census both the pagodas and the 1984 HK expo have about the same population of graded medals - a little over 60 - even though there is a big difference in mintage. This medal deserves a lot more attention in my opinion.

It is my favorite panda of all and happy to own it.

(There is no intention here to imply or say something bad about the pagodas. Buy, collect and enjoy them if you like them.)

 

[pandamonium]

I have looked pretty hard to find the pagoda and goldfish sets for sale.  The pagoda set is off the market because the seller bought it at a higher price and will not sell it for prices today.  The goldfish set is PF 69 UC 1990 $3000 and is available.  Not cheap.  Maybe these sets are not so common as the owners paid more for them then they are worth today.  So why sell now?  Supply of singles and low grade pagodas have disappeared from the market.  Have chatted w/ many collectors/investors/sellers and the majority say due to low mintage, the pagodas are worth keeping.  It seems many are just holding tight to them.  In China the pagodas are not that highly recommended from what I read.  Yet due to huge number of potential Chinese buyers and low mintage the pagodas do have a following.  So this coin is your call or choice.  Will NGC give it a clean bill of health or open more questions?  Time will tell.  For me it is a gamble worth taking...............

[silvercoins]

I have a complete set of the 1984 Silver Goldfish Medals/Coins in the original box. I've had it since the late 80's and have enjoyed looking at it from time to time. I've never been able to find much about it and am very appreciative for the latest research and information. I believe it is the 1984 silver version of the goldfish set (each weights approximately 22g). At this point I am planning on having them graded. Based on the results I'll probably be even more confused whether to sell or hold for another 25 years! Which way do you see the Chinese coin/medal market going from here?

[pandamonium]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-China-The-Great-Wall-Silver-3-3oz-Error-Medal-NGC-MS64-Mintage-200-Rare-/320991272215?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item4abc921d17

This is probably a bad example but what the heck.  Same year, 1984 Great Wall 3.3 0z (bigger coin), 200 mintage (silver pagodas 260 mintage)  low grade PF 64 and priced at $5,000.   Typical price.  It is a "error" coin to so that is rare.  The graded silver pagodas are genuine and their name will be finally cleared by upcoming NGC article.  How can the graded silver paodas not go back up in price?  Even if the Chinese are not buyers, the US buyers want lowest mintage possible so demand should head back up.  I doubt they will be priced at $5000 but as cheap as they are now, why would they not double in price?  Your 1984 silver goldfish have already had an article by NGC on them.  I know very little about them but they too have low mintage and buyers that want them.  (Badon was looking for a set)  Why won't the price of your silver goldfish increase greatly?  Good idea to grade them but not to sell.  Let them continue to gain in value as the 84 are rare compared to the 1990 goldfish.  As many investment articles say about rare coins, hold them and let them go up.  Demand for MCC is going up and supply down.....................

[badon]

I have a complete set of the 1984 Silver Goldfish Medals/Coins in the original box. I've had it since the late 80's and have enjoyed looking at it from time to time. I've never been able to find much about it and am very appreciative for the latest research and information. I believe it is the 1984 silver version of the goldfish set (each weights approximately 22g). At this point I am planning on having them graded. Based on the results I'll probably be even more confused whether to sell or hold for another 25 years! Which way do you see the Chinese coin/medal market going from here?

I see that was your first post, so welcome to our forum!

The 1984 goldfish are extremely, extremely rare. They are closely related to the pagodas (nobody knows why yet, other than having the same date). The pagodas have a mintage of 260 and there are around 50 known surviving sets. There is no mintage information for the 1984 goldfish, but it is clear that they are far, far rarer. Right now, I would estimate that there are around 15 to 20 known surviving sets out there.

More pagodas and goldfish could be discovered in the future, but it is a near-certainty that the supply will never be able to keep up with the demand. In other words, prices are likely to remain on an upward trend over the long term, forever.

There are a few key coins that sit in the elite level that only a few of us have access to. The 1984 goldfish are part of that elite level. They are probably rarer than the 1984 great wall, which can sell for a 5 figure price, as pandamonium mentioned. There are some extremely rare coins that are still available enough that they could be purchased within a year by a determined buyer.

As pandamonium has mentioned, I have been trying to buy the 1984 goldfish, and they have been harder to find than most of the rarest-of-the-rare pandas. Only a few pattern panda coins are harder to obtain than 1984 goldfish.

There is no question, if you are lucky enough to own a 1984 goldfish set, it would be wise of you to keep it. Furthermore, it's the kind of coin that would be wise for your heirs to keep, too. I feel the 1984 goldfish are worthy of becoming the heirlooms of a wealthy family.

[pandamonium]

silvercoins, can you post some photos of your 1984 silver goldfish set and the box?.  (to post photos click additional options)...............

[low]

I am always interested to find out what happens in Shanghai Mint in 1984. They minted, but not released the proof set of 35th establishment of PRC with about 50 (or 55) sets known to date.

It is probably the rarest proof set of circulation commemorative coins.

[poconopenn]

I am always interested to find out what happens in Shanghai Mint in 1984. They minted, but not released the proof set of 35th establishment of PRC with about 50 (or 55) sets known to date.

It is probably the rarest proof set of circulation commemorative coins.

FYI,
One of this Shanghai Mint rare proof set shown up in US this year and bought by one member of CCF at price of Shenyang Mint set. I had the honor to examine this set in detail and found to be identical to the NGC graded set.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3299322-001

[low]

FYI,
One of this Shanghai Mint rare proof set shown up in US this year and bought by one member of CCF at price of Shenyang Mint set. I had the honor to examine this set in detail and found to be identical to the NGC graded set.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3299322-001

Wow! That is bargain of century.

[badon]

1984 was one of the strangest and most interesting years in China's numismatics. I can't think of anything minted in 1984 that doesn't have significant collector value. Even the mint sets for the "common" circulating coins are quite rare and valuable.

Usually, collectors compete with each other to obtain the rarest coins they can afford. It would be interesting to try to obtain the cheapest, most common 1984 coins. I'm sure there's something out there that's not rare or expensive from 1984 - maybe the regular circulating coinage is common, but I think it is still quite rare and valuable in higher grades.

[low]

FYI,
One of this Shanghai Mint rare proof set shown up in US this year and bought by one member of CCF at price of Shenyang Mint set. I had the honor to examine this set in detail and found to be identical to the NGC graded set.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3299322-001

Sorry poconopenn.

The NGC graded set is not Shanghai Mint.

[badon]

Low, how do you tell the difference between Shenyang and Shanghai for that set?

[low]

Low, how do you tell the difference between Shenyang and Shanghai for that set?

Badon, I will post picture later.