Author Topic: Fake Goldfishes???  (Read 1800 times)

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Offline sasushi

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Fake Goldfishes???
« on: May 03, 2012, 01:30:25 AM »
Are these real or fakes - and in which years were they produced?

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 02:11:00 AM »
Fakes.

2012.            April.




Seriously, this is a topic recently rehashed to almost to death here. There are a lot of unsolved issues with this "design".  Mysteries.  And those who should know, aren't tellin', maybe 'cuz even they don't know.

One problem is, anyone can make a copy of a medal, without penalty.

Second problem, this seller has some ....uh..questionable?  stuff. 

Third problem... About the Goldfish... Seems the generally accepted 1984 "one -fish" design, generally considered from 1984, like the one you show, has some plated offerings.
The question is, some or all?  And: all old, or some recent?

The generally accepted "Two-fish" 1990 version , is accepted to be solid .90 silver.  But who knows?  NGC grading has accepted both as "real", but what is "real" ? Is" Plated"  real? in the case of "one-fish"?  The only official looking COAs ("numbered) come with "some" of the "two fish", but not all. The rest are not numbered. And none of the "single -fish" medals I've seen have anything like an offical COA.

AND... To add to the mystery, SOME of the "one-fish" medals, presumably from 1984, came from distributors in fancy carved wooden boxes, and typed unoffical COAs, just like "some" of the expensive and considered "rare" Pagoda coins., of which some are now revealed to be likely just plated too!!
Ah... The intrigue !

The craziest thing is.... Nobody seems to know for sure, or nobody will tell!  I have asked for clarification from NGC, and former NGC graders, even those posting on this forum,  with just crickets chirping....

Did the single fish, 1984 medals, some or all, plated, slip by NGC? And deemed real after two-fish 1990 medals were graded?
We just don't know yet for certain.

But I personally wouldn't spend any kind of money for one-fish coins at this point, until it's cleared up.

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 02:29:16 AM »
Hey PandaBrian-

Care to respond to my question?  I threw it out there to you, as someone who might know, being an NGC guy and all, but I've heard nothing back from you....


Busy, probably.

Offline sasushi

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 02:31:01 AM »
Underbidder - Thank you very much for your input.
I only spent (90 USD with shipping) for giving it a try. What will hapen when I send them to NGC?
The seller posted them with the wooden box. Can someone read the letters?

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 02:37:37 AM »
Yeah, I can read it...



It says.....


"Genuine Plated Medals, Manufactured April 20, 2012".   "Fitie Cents"

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 02:59:12 AM »
Hey, that's funny....
Seller even says Now "copper-plating-silver.."

I think I been trolled !  Funny!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-China-of-goldfish-Copper-plating-silver-china-coin-/221007770043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337516f1bb

Offline PandaBrian

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 03:12:40 PM »
I didn't forget about the question....just been a little busy and would prefer to be able to share some useful information rather than speculation or having to make something up that sounds definitive.  :biggrin:

The box says, Gold fish commemorative coins, Shanghai Mint, but I like the other translation someone provided much better. :thumbup1: 

The 1992 90% silver issues appear to share the fish obverse dies but a different common reverse.  Can only speculate as to why the dies were apparently re-used.

I haven't see these pieces in person, and I didn't find any information about them in a quick search, but I am still checking around.   I am curious about the metal content and would do a specific gravity test on them.  If you send this set to NGC, they CAN do specific gravity on these pieces (CAN doesn't mean they WILL).  They also have a scanner that will test the surface but that probably won't be to useful in this case.  However, I suspect you will receive them back Questionable Authenticity or In-eligible Type.

I'll keep trying to track down some information on them or even a specimen if possible.
Brian Silliman
Senior Numismatist
Panda America
Brian@PandaAmerica.com
www.PandaAmerica.com

Instructor: ANA Coin Grading & Counterfeit Detection Seminars.
Former NGC Authenticator & Grader, NCS Conservator and ANA Authenticator

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Re: Fake Goldfishes???
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 04:11:30 PM »
Thank you PandaBrian -

I know with some more research this mystery is solvable, and may be a key in solving the mystery of the plated Pagodas, too.