Author Topic: Robert Mish interview  (Read 5038 times)

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tamo42

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Robert Mish interview
« on: March 13, 2012, 05:28:17 PM »
I thought this was an interesting perspective from a general coin & bullion dealer rather than our usual friends who specialize in the Chinese market:

Quote
A lot of it is going overseas. A lot of the coins that came to America over the decades, over the generations, either through the fact that we had the money to buy them or through immigration or through the spoils of war, it is all going back now to the home countries. Especially if it is a home country, where their economies are rising and the people are saving rather than spending.

Just last night we had two visitors from China, colleagues of mine in Shanghai, they flew here just to see me, and they flew back the next morning. They cannot get enough coins in China; they are buying everything back that came here when the people in China could not buy their own coins. Next weekend I have more visitors coming. Coin shows, which have been all over America, are now appearing all over the world. There are now major coin shows in gathering marts in Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing, Hong Kong. It used to be once a year; now it is three, four times a year. Big auctions that used to be held in the United States are now organizing in Hong Kong and other countries.

So we are seeing a movement back in the opposite direction, and it is sad [for the US market]

http://lewrockwell.com/martenson/martenson18.1.html

Offline pandamania

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 06:09:02 PM »
Excellent post. Very sound observations from someone who has been there before.

Offline comeaux

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 06:41:17 PM »
I notice one of his (Robert Mish) comments “They cannot get enough coins in China; they are buying everything back that came here when the people in China could not buy their own coins

I thought that this assertion has been proven to be false … I may be wrong but I think that awhile back poconopenn, dragondollar or one of the other highly knowledgeable CCF members provided some insight into this commonly heard misconception that the Chinese could not buy their own coins several years ago.   

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 06:45:48 PM »
I notice one of his (Robert Mish) comments “They cannot get enough coins in China; they are buying everything back that came here when the people in China could not buy their own coins

I thought that this assertion has been proven to be false … I may be wrong but I think that awhile back poconopenn, dragondollar or one of the other highly knowledgeable CCF members provided some insight into this commonly heard misconception that the Chinese could not buy their own coins several years ago.   


I think based on the context that this means as a developing nation the average Chinese citizen "could not" afford to buy their own coins, not that they "could not" legally buy their own coins....

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 06:48:41 PM »
It's true
I notice one of his (Robert Mish) comments “They cannot get enough coins in China; they are buying everything back that came here when the people in China could not buy their own coins

I thought that this assertion has been proven to be false … I may be wrong but I think that awhile back poconopenn, dragondollar or one of the other highly knowledgeable CCF members provided some insight into this commonly heard misconception that the Chinese could not buy their own coins several years ago.  


It's true enough; it just depends on what time period you are talking about. It's also true that there were years when coins were available in the Friendship Stores IF you had foreign currency, and IF you knew about them. I have one good friend who has told me that once when he told a Chinese coin collector about the export coins, the collector refused to believe him that the coins were Chinese. You needed both hard currency + knowledge to buy the coins, so very few did even if they were "available."

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 08:14:09 PM »
I suppose there is a parallel with gold coin ownership in USA from 1933 to 1974.  It was not illegal to own gold numismatic coins, most people just don't want to deal with the legal dark cloud over gold.  I don't supposed US Mints issued any gold coins from 1933 to 1974?  Not much demand for it.

The gold coins China Mint issued from 1979 to 2003 were mostly for foreigners and the few sales in government own banks and Friendship stores.  Now they want the gold back.  I suppose it is a pretty nice "carry trade":  borrow money from Bank of China for 30 days, buy a cheap plane ticket to USA, go to Disneyland, buy some Chinese golds, then sell it back in China to pay for the trip and the 30-day interest.  Free vacation, until all the Chinese golds are gone.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 08:30:43 PM »
This interview is definitely worth listening in it's entirety.
*The text version online is not a complete transcript.

My favorite insight from this interview was on the implications of the DIS-HOARDING of American as it relates domestically and to the global economy.
“Most of the new buyers are just buying for bullion and it has actually hurt the coin market. Coins are something again that is either a hobby or a hobby-investment. You save money among many other ways through coins. You accumulate them and you enjoy them. If they never go up in value you have the utility of enjoying the hobby, enjoying what you learn. Much of what’s coming back through the door are those same coins. We’re basically recovering everything that Americans have accumulated or what’s been sold to them in past generations. Now the typical buyer is conscious of what percentage over (spot) gold does this product cost and how liquid is it anywhere in the world. We lost a generation or two of coin collectors to video games and computers and other things that don’t involve saving…. that involve consumption.” - Robert Mish
Source: http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/robert-mish-front-line-evidence-nowhere-near-gold-bubble/72283

- My favorite take-away from this is that it is never too early to get youngsters involved in numismatics or collecting of tactile, tangible assets with history. Get kids a penny book, or coins of the world book, teach them the historical significance of various coins and get them excited about an art that involves saving/collecting vice consuming.

Offline fishball

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 08:41:02 PM »
@Panda Halves

I play computer games and collect coins too...

In fact, I was hoarding loot in RPGs (eg. Diablo 2) long before I started collecting coins!

I think young people just generally don't collect coins or stamps because it is seen as an 'old dude' hobby. Although I agree with him that the mentality of saving is a lost art when it comes to the majority of young people nowadays.

ps. I am in my mid 20s

Currently looking for MS69 1oz Silver Pandas - feel free to PM me.
Also buying 1997 Hong Kong $1000 Gold Coin BOX + COA - please PM thank you.

Online Mirkkanen

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 09:19:27 PM »
Tamo,

Since I go into Mish's shop somewhat 'regularly,' I can tell you that he does specialize in Chinese coins. He just doesn't advertise it. Instead he displays bullion for the average Joe Schmoe. Once I brought and sold him a 1/10th oz gold Culture of dragons coin to him before I knew what I was doing. He put it with the other 39 he had in the back, all of which were on their way back to China. He is as much of an expert on Chinese coins as (almost) anyone here.

Thanks for the interview link. I've fallen asleep twice trying to get through it. Its not boring, but I am tired :)

I thought this was an interesting perspective from a general coin & bullion dealer rather than our usual friends who specialize in the Chinese market:

http://lewrockwell.com/martenson/martenson18.1.html

Offline dragondollar

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 09:59:49 PM »
I think buying a video games console to a kid is a bad idea. It is sterile entertainement. I am born in 1986. As a kid, I had access to the family computer and learned how to write software on it, out of curiosity. Internet helped immensely to learn as well, when it became available; I learned English by myself out of necessity, because the French internet had less information available. I bought my first own computer by selling some software I made. Since now I write software for a living, "computers" definitely allowed me to make money (and so to collect coins) and communicate with more people. The problem is now most platforms are locked up to turn the user in a consumer (iPad, Playstation 3...), so they actually don't get anything valuable out of using the device, just mindless and expensive entertainment.

Offline comeaux

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 12:43:28 AM »
I think buying a video games console to a kid is a bad idea. It is sterile entertainement. I am born in 1986. As a kid, I had access to the family computer and learned how to write software on it, out of curiosity. Internet helped immensely to learn as well, when it became available; I learned English by myself out of necessity, because the French internet had less information available. I bought my first own computer by selling some software I made. Since now I write software for a living, "computers" definitely allowed me to make money (and so to collect coins) and communicate with more people. The problem is now most platforms are locked up to turn the user in a consumer (iPad, Playstation 3...), so they actually don't get anything valuable out of using the device, just mindless and expensive entertainment.
Dragondollar I agree 100% ... this is an interesting story and observation you have posted here.

My wife and I agree that our 15 month old will not get a game consol as it is not productive, I won’t force it on him but since the coins that I am collecting are for him in the future, I would like him to be interested in them.

I plan to do exactly what you said and start with cheap coins sets and move up from there. I let him play with a few old common silver dollars right now to spark his interest (quarters were too small, he tried to eat them). He seems to already be interested in things I was as a child such as animals and books.   

I have always been a collector of many things since an early age of coins, comic books and sports memorabilia.

40 years ago people used to tell me that it was a waste of money but turns out that it was not.

Anyways … nice post ! 

Offline comeaux

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 01:23:12 AM »
My last post was in reference to Panda Halves and dragondollar posts ... excellent points !  :thumbup:

Offline badon

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2012, 02:00:39 AM »
I have always been a collector of many things since an early age of coins, comic books and sports memorabilia.

40 years ago people used to tell me that it was a waste of money but turns out that it was not.

Things like that always entertain me. Whatever the crowd is doing, do the opposite, and you get rich. People are always so surprised by that, and they don't believe it when I tell them. Then I say "You can't be exceptional if you're not different", and then they stay awake at night thinking about it, haha.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 05:33:24 AM »
I plan to do exactly what you said and start with cheap coins sets and move up from there. I let him play with a few old common silver dollars right now to spark his interest (quarters were too small, he tried to eat them). He seems to already be interested in things I was as a child such as animals and books.    

Lincoln cent books remain one of the cheapest and best ways to generate interest in general numismatics for children. If I had to choose a Chinese coin series to use to educate kids it would be the World Famous Cultural Figures, followed by the Endangered Wildlife series. There are even a couple of neat Cinese Dinosaur coins in 1995.

Offline dragondollar

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Re: Robert Mish interview
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 06:23:17 AM »
I started being interested in coins at a young age, around 5 or 6 I think? Being in Europe, I had easy access to various world coins collected from travels by my grandparents or relatives. One the main interest was trying to decipher the weird writings to know from where in the world these coins came from, and the pretty pictures of course. The interest in old and rare stuff came soon after. So... I'm not sure Lincoln cents would excite the imagination of a young child. Lincoln's head is not as awesome as rampant lions or eagles with swords in their claws, and the design did not change in years, making it a very common looking coin. Old silver dollars like the Morgan may be more apt to strike the imagination of a young one. What about cheap silver yens? Cheap, with a cool dragon and weird characters.