Author Topic: NCS NGC fees going up!  (Read 12167 times)

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Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2012, 10:52:36 PM »
Just don't submit the large copper medal.  I believe NGC charges extra on an oversize holder.

low

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2012, 10:57:46 PM »
Just don't submit the large copper medal.  I believe NGC charges extra on an oversize holder.

Ouch!

Offline Batman

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2012, 06:29:48 AM »
I just submitted 2 gold panda sets to NCS / NGC.  The price I will have to pay makes me feel violated.  Using $1700 as the gold spot price to put a value on the forms I came up with these numbers.

To conserve and grade the 1/4, 1/2, 1 oz:
   $150.00  - Conservation
   $16.50 x 3 - Grading
   $12.00 x 3 - Variety Designation
 TOTAL:  235.50 or 7.8% of gold value

To conserve and grade the 1/20 & 1/10:

   $26.50 x 2 - Conservation / Grading
   $12.00 x 2 - Variety Designation

TOTAL:  $77.00 or 30% of gold value

Total cost of $312.50 or 9.6%.  Plus if you add $36 for my cost of shipping USPS Express (thats without insurance!) plus return shipping of approximately $45.00 from NGC via USPS registered it brings the total cost to conserve and grade a set to $393.50 or a whopping $12%!!

This same set under the old pricing of last year would have cost $22.50 per coin for conservation and grading and no variety fee for a total of $112.50 + $81 shipping or 193.50 or 6%.

It costs 100% more now to grade a set.  I don't believe this is very sustainable for sets that tie closely to bullion.

If you take out the shipping cost from the new pricing and the old pricing you get $312.50 or 9.6% vs 112.50 or 3.5%.  The actual cost of NGC's services have increased nearly $275%!!

All I can say is SWEET! It looks like we better learn to remove copper spots off our own coins.

Plus the NCS $8 handling fee per invoice!! 

Offline BChung

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2012, 09:38:20 AM »
talk about handling fees, I got to say I find it a 100% dishonest business practice.

I went to PCGS HK submitted my coins, around 30 something coins. I fill in 2 forms.. went there they told me to split it to 4 form because of different pricing/size, etc. then I just realize that I am now being charge USD 8 x 4 instead of just USD 8, according to their lame excuse "ITS FASTER". Well finally gave grading a try and the first taste feels bad already :cursing:. The worst part is the so called "handling fee" well guess what I am ask to take the coin out and put it in some plastic pouch, all they did was "writing a sticker label" oo yeah and wraping them in one big pile (Why split it in four forms then besides from trying to squeeze a few dollars off this fat Chinese kid????)

The service they provide is hardly cheap, can they have the decency to be at least HONEST?

Offline Pandagongzi

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2012, 10:00:52 AM »
All I can say is SWEET! It looks like we better learn to remove copper spots off our own coins.

I would just send them to NGC without NCS.  Put savings to few silver or even a small gold coin.  And enjoy the gold with red spots in NGC.

Offline exchange

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2012, 10:20:17 AM »
And enjoy the gold with red spots in NGC.

I have a 1990 or 1991 (don't remember) 1 ounce gold panda sealed with five small copper spots. Nothing wrong with them. In fact reminds me of the Chinese flag with 5 yellow stars  :001_smile:

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Offline Obsidian

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2012, 12:22:30 PM »
I would just send them to NGC without NCS.  Put savings to few silver or even a small gold coin.  And enjoy the gold with red spots in NGC.

Yea I submitted 41 coins that day.  19 went to NCS due to being full sets with some copper spotting.  The other 22 coins went directly to NGC because they didn't have copper spots.  Those coins will still cost me about $500 or so.  Some were reasonable at only $16.50 per coin because they didn't have a variety designation.

What NGC really needs to do is raise up the cost of the standard NGC grading from 16.50 to 20 something and then lower the overall NCS fee or raise the $$ limit accepted that can be graded for the $26.50. Or create a whole different cost structure for Chinese coins if they are getting a high volume of them.

It would also be nice if they lowered or did away with the variety designation on modern coins.  I feel that most of the changes they made were to directly RAISE the cost of grading CHINESE modern coins, particularly gold coins.  Most US gold coins don't have as bad of copper spotting OR varieties.  So they don't need NCS or variety designation.  Those 2 changes have a disproportionately negative impact on CHINESE modern coins.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:30:58 PM by Obsidian »

Offline badon

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2012, 11:27:42 PM »
All these increases in costs might be worth it if you got an indication on the label that you spent the extra money to get the coin conserved, because then you could expect to earn the costs back with a higher sale price. We have been begging NCS/NGC to label conserved coins, and it's quite odd that they raised prices while still not meeting such an important market demand.

Offline Birdman

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2012, 07:49:14 PM »
Ugh...I haven't submitted to NCS/NGC for several months.  I had been accumulating some pieces to send in in one batch.  Reading this threads of updates, however, I might wait.  It is undeniable that the old NCS/NGC fees for gold pandas were too low.  It was an almost trivial cost for a big potential upside gain (MS69 or MS70).  But these new fees...It makes me very hesitant...I guess the only good thing to note is that the waiting time for grading has dramatically reduced after they raised their fees...Perhaps if enough of us refuse to send in coins, and we call them to clarify exactly why we are not sending in coins, we can give them clear feedback that might influence them to set an appropriate fee structure conserving modern Chinese coins.

Offline badon

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2012, 04:39:31 AM »
I have wondered if maybe part of the problem is that they can't hire enough conservators to keep up with demand. If that is the case, then maybe from their point of view, they're not losing much of anything. NCS and NGC are pretty good at running their business, and for a while, I was baffled at how this could be a good long-term strategy for them. But, if they simply can't handle the demand despite their best efforts, then turning some up it away and increasing prices for the rest might make perfect sense.

I'm not sure that's exactly what's happening, but it's one speculative possibility that has crossed my mind.

Offline davidt3251

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2012, 03:38:00 PM »
I just spoke to NCS about submissions of gold MCCs. The interesting point was the actual turnaround time on NCS submissions.

This is a hypothetical scenario but largely based on today's discussion with NCS.

Lets say I submit 20 MCC gold coins, value $3000+, to NCS. Immediately NCS has the potential of billing their 5% fee on all/some coins. Its 100% up to them. Lets assume $3000 each coin in value and NCS wants to conserve each coin. Total evaluation revenue potential for NCS is 20x$3000x5%=$3,000 in addition to the per coin NCS fees.

But lets say there are 20 submissions in front of these two submissions. Lets say those are all sub $300 coins, so only the NCS per coin fees apply. Revenue potential is a fraction of the gold submission.

I was a bit surprised to find NCS puts the high revenue submissions in the queue right behind all the lower value submissions.

Anyway, my thought was 'thats not how the airlines do it'. Higher value ticketholders get priority at boarding.

Its certainly another potential disincentive.


Offline badon

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Re: NCS NGC fees going up!
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2012, 05:38:39 PM »
I have been hearing some rather extreme negative opinions about NCS fees lately. They're along the lines of very large fees of several thousand dollars, with no actual conservation work being done. We already knew they were doing that, since that's part of their official policy, but this is the first time I've heard of it happening for conservation fees in the thousands of dollars. There's a few other new unpleasant things I'm hearing too, but I have no way of knowing whether it's just griping or not.

Either way, I no longer use NCS myself, and if anyone asks me I tell them not to use NCS too. Little or no additional market value is being delivered for such huge costs. People don't trust NCS to actually conserve the coins anymore, so the "NCS conserved" market price premium is drying up. I believe the supposedly conserved coins that are developing white spots after grading were not actually conserved. Some of the rumors are getting pretty nasty, so I won't repeat them, but it's obvious people are upset about something.

If anything, marketing coins as "NCS conserved" is dragging the market down by scaring people away from it, and NCS still ignores the obvious solutions of certifying that conservation work has been done. I reported several weeks ago that there are fundamental business strategy problems over at NCS, and I don't know if they'll be able to recover from them by the time they figure out they have wrecked their market acceptance.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 05:47:23 PM by badon »