Author Topic: CC lunar series  (Read 5732 times)

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Offline YoungC

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CC lunar series
« on: March 11, 2012, 04:51:20 PM »
I am no expert but I like to get the type/subtype/series structure of the silver lunar started for the coin compendium.

Here is my proposal (based on the Chinese "Red Book" http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?item=10415&grp=1&categ=245 )

   * 15g 33mm round 1981-1992 (CCT706) that is fully organized
   * 2/3 Oz 36mm flower 1988-2000 (CCT728)
   * 1 Oz 40mm flower 2001 -  (CCT729 should be renamed)
   * 1 Oz 32mm piedfort round 1988 to 1999  (CCT720)
   * 1 Oz 40mm round 1997 - 2008 (CCT721) (CT736)
   * 1 Oz 40mm round 2009 -  (CCT737 should be renamed)
   * 1 Oz fan 2001 -  (CCT732)
   * 1 Oz 40mm colorized round 1998 -
   * 5 Oz 70mm round 1987-1999
   * 5 Oz 80x50mm rectangle 2000-
   * 12 Oz 80mm round 1993-1999
   * 1Kg 100mm round 2002-

Any disagreements/corrections/refinements?

We may need to rename some of the exiting types in the CC.
Once we have the series subtype defined, the type for individual years can then be added under the appropriate series.
 
After all that is done, then it should be easy to add sightings and have some fun :)

thanks


edit by badon: Renamed topic to cover all lunars
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 05:33:25 PM by badon »

tamo42

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Re: Silver lunar series
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 05:07:23 PM »
The 2/3 oz silver flower series started in 1993, not 1998. It's an odd duck because there are only 8 out of the 12 lunar animals before they switched to 1 oz flower coins.

Is it a full set after only 8 of the animals?

Offline badon

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Re: Silver lunar series
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 05:24:20 PM »
We might need to just rename it to remove the "2/3" part of the type name.

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 05:38:53 PM »
One important thing to always check is if there are specimens and sightings for a type before we change something about it, because those will need to be changed too. Already, I can see that we need to differentiate the 1 oz silver piedforts from the regular coins. Luckily, there's only a few sightings and specimens, so it should be pretty easy. We should decide what to do with those after the flower lunars are sorted.

The important thing here is to organize things into sets, so they can easily be used to sort and find data. I don't think there's much ambiguity of what constitutes a set, except for the flower lunars where the weight was changed.

I renamed this topic to cover all lunars, since I'm sure this is the place where talk about that will concentrate.

Offline YoungC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 07:30:30 PM »
The 5Oz Silver starts with year 1987 (rabbit)
So, the first series should be 1987-1998,
     the second series from 1999 to 2010,
     third series from 2011 - 2022(?)

Offline YoungC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 07:35:24 PM »
and to be complete, there is the platinum series  starting with 1988-1999
I must admit that I have not see one.  :001_rolleyes:

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 07:38:02 PM »
Yes, I think you are right about that. It looks like the CC has incorrect starting dates for the 5 oz silver coins. Also, the platinum is left out. They are very rare. I think most of them have a mintage of 300.

tamo42

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 07:41:22 PM »
There are 2 or 3 platinum horses floating around, CCT941

Offline SANDAC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 08:38:45 PM »
The 5Oz Silver starts with year 1987 (rabbit)
So, the first series should be 1987-1998,
     the second series from 1999 to 2010,
     third series from 2011 - 2022(?)


This presents an interesting dilemma:  the 12-year lunar sequence starts as:
rat-ox-tiger-rabbit, dragon-snake-horse-goat, monkey-rooster-dog-pig.  I put them in the four-animal sequence, because that was how they were taught as childhood rhyme.  This is similar to the twelve months starting from January, Feburary, March, etc.  Use the month analogy, if a monthly coin series was issued starting on, say, August, I don't think we should organize that coin series as starting on August and ending on July of next year.  Perhaps the better way to do it is to finish the partial sequence from Aug to December, then start the 2nd sequece fresh from the beginning at January.  Thought?

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 08:55:27 PM »
The lunar series is a cycle, which means it has no beginning and no end. But, small children don't understand that, so it wasn't long before some curious 5 year old begged and begged until his grandfather would tell him which animal is the first one. So, grandfather had to make up a story, and over the centuries, diverging cultures have developed different stories about which animal is first.

But, it's still a cycle, and it began with the 1981 rooster for modern Chinese lunar coins :)

I'm not sure how we could answer that question any other way without provoking even more questions and controversy. If there is a way to settle the issue, I suppose we ought to explore it. Then, if we decide to do it differently, we can break up the sets as we need to.

Offline YoungC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 09:01:19 PM »
Yes. the Chinese lunar cycle starts with the year of the rat. However, nobody seems to have told the Chinese mint that and they start the series all over the place  :(

So far, the 15g completed the series starting with rooster (1981)
the 32mm 1Oz also is 12 coins but starts with dragon (1988)
12 Oz is good 12 coins from 1988-1999.
2/3 Oz flower only has 8 coins from 1993 to 2000
The 5Oz round silver has 13 coins (1987-1999)  >:(
Oh and the new 5Oz colorized silver starts with 2010 (tiger).

It is difficult to anticipate whether they will stop the series. So, I would vote that we start the series with whatever year that it starts rather than the traditional start of year of the rat. Maybe we don't even have 12 year boundaries and just go by the size and shape. In other words, forget about series 1, 2, or 3. Just group them all under 1 Oz 40mm round silver.






Offline YoungC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 09:02:11 PM »
There is a story as to why the zodiac year starts with the rat.

http://www.chinesezodiac.com/chinesezodiachistory.php

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 09:25:31 PM »
I'll take another look at the lunar setup we have. About the lunar calendar: It's actually quite complex, and does not even start at the same time as the year starts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar

The legends are diverse, and spread throughout Indochina, evolving in all sorts of different ways. That article only talks about it from the present-day Chinese point of view, though.

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2012, 09:31:48 PM »
I just did an automated change of the silver flower name to "2/3 oz to 1 oz silver lunar flower". At least we know clearly what it is now, and we can think of a better name, or a different organizational scheme as we go along here.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 10:22:22 PM »
I guess you can tell I'm no student of the lunar coins.  I just look into Peter's Pricepedia for a big picture summary of the various lunar coins, and it is a mess!  China mint started and stopped a series without rhyme or reason.  There are 15 series of lunar in 2011 alone.  I withdraw my suggestion.  We can't help it if China mint is disorganized.

Offline badon

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Re: CC lunar series
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2012, 10:31:41 PM »
The CC is getting interesting. It has thousands and thousands of pages now. We're still short on images though, and as we all know, we don't have all types in place yet. It's going to be crazy how big this will get within the next year.

I think we're adding about 1000 pages of data every week. It might be faster than that now. It won't be long before we get 1000 pages of data every day!