Author Topic: Question: Can NCS conservation get rid of red (copper) spots on a gold panda?  (Read 7721 times)

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Offline dynamike51

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Please chime in. Any suggestions or personal experience will be greatly appreciated.

Offline Panda Halves

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In my experience....
Yes they remove red "copper" spots!
This is one of the things they do best.
These natural spots are easy to blast off with a torch, usually these spots are red but I have had some particularly ugly looking gold panda coins with red spots fading to purple/blue hues that came right off and graded the way I wanted them too. You have to be careful and see past the surface coloration though, which isn't easy to do.
What NCS DOES do is restore the condition of the coin to it's original state when possible.
NCS CANNOT remove scratches, hairlines, panda rub on the surface of the relief, bag marks and scuffs on the mirror fields.
Spots, yes but be aware that those aren't considered post-mint damage (PMD).
Also beware of any grey-green/brown-green spots, haze, or thin film on gold coins.
That stuff can tend to be more permanent.

Offline Panda Halves

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Offline dynamike51

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In my experience....
Yes they remove red "copper" spots!
This is one of the things they do best.
These natural spots are easy to blast off with a torch, usually these spots are red but I have had some particularly ugly looking gold panda coins with red spots fading to purple/blue hues that came right off and graded the way I wanted them too. You have to be careful and see past the surface coloration though, which isn't easy to do.
What NCS DOES do is restore the condition of the coin to it's original state when possible.
NCS CANNOT remove scratches, hairlines, panda rub on the surface of the relief, bag marks and scuffs on the mirror fields.
Spots, yes but be aware that those aren't considered post-mint damage (PMD).
Also beware of any grey-green/brown-green spots, haze, or thin film on gold coins.
That stuff can tend to be more permanent.


Many thanks, PH.  After I posted my question, I then realized maybe I should have posted it under the category of "Chinese Coin Conservation & Grading". My apologies.

Offline jwa1inv

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I have had very good experience with copper spot removal and even some
orange haze removal on the gold part of a bimetal panda which was in a
pendant. They took care of the brown toning on the silver part of that
coin. They can remove black jewelry tab marks from platinum pulled from
14K bezels.

Offline dynamike51

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I have had very good experience with copper spot removal and even some
orange haze removal on the gold part of a bimetal panda which was in a
pendant. They took care of the brown toning on the silver part of that
coin. They can remove black jewelry tab marks from platinum pulled from
14K bezels.

jwa,

I know NCS does a real good job removing toning from silver coins, but this is the first time I send in gold pandas with copper spots. Thanks for your assurance.

Offline dynamike51

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These natural spots are easy to blast off with a torch 

PH,

Does NCS really do it with a torch??

Offline Panda Halves

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PH,

Does NCS really do it with a torch??

Possibly....
It can be done yourself with a torch if you are careful. There are dealers in China who cut open OMP and torch their coins to remove spots then re-seal them. I personally don't mess with my investments and leave that to the professionals but I know respected people in the industry who don't hesitate to torch gold coins.
NCS keeps their conservation methodology confidential for propietary purposes. Either way, $26.50 to get a coin evaluated for ANY issues (not just copper spots), conserved if needed, graded, slabbed, and sealed seems like a bargain provided that the value of coin you are submitting can take an additional $26.50 premium once slabbed.

Offline dynamike51

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$26.50 to get a coin evaluated for ANY issues (not just copper spots), conserved if needed, graded, slabbed, and sealed seems like a bargain 

PH,

Agreed. Thanks.

Offline badon

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NCS does have some tricks up their sleeves. I'm not sure how they do it with the gold & silver bimetallic coins. Torching those could damage the silver part, so they may have to use more advanced techniques in an oxygen-free atmosphere.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were inductively heating the coin while it's sealed in something, and then cooling it down again before they open the seal. They could do several coins at a time that way, and would have precise control over the temperature the coins are heated to.

It's probably safer that way than waving a torch around in a place with lots of flammable acetone, and, no risk of dropping the torch on the coin...

Offline ghostrider80811

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jwa,

I know NCS does a real good job removing toning from silver coins, but this is the first time I send in gold pandas with copper spots. Thanks for your assurance.

Yeah, PH knows what he's talking about.

Offline SANDAC

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Just received result from NCS/NGC.  I sent in four 1997 1/4oz panda in OMP with pretty noticeable copper spots.  NCS must've removed them because all four are graded MS69.  In the submission is also a Kublai Khan that's graded PF70!  It is the 2nd PF70 KK in NGC census.  Maybe there is something to this Friday grading special story.  I'll post the photos of post-NCS panda, but here are a couple panda before submission.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Congrads SANDAC!!  Thats a HUGE grade in PF70 for a KK.

Offline badon

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Wow, that's pure love from NCS and NGC!

Offline sbeverly

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I tried to pry this info from Nick Brown at a Fun Show a few years ago.
Even though Nick would not give up the info he did indicate that it was a chemical
procedure that removed the copper impurities (red spots)

Conversely, at that time I was told that the red spots didn't affect the assigned grade.
From my graded coins, that seemed to be the case at that time, though I think that policy has changed.

Offline badon

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Heating is a chemical procedure. The spots are not made of gold (usually), so heating affects the spots, but leaves the inert gold unaffected.

Offline SANDAC

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I received the four 1997 gold small date 1/4oz back today.  NCS did a good job with the removal of copper spots and all four are graded MS69.  I posted the before pictures previously, but here are the before-after picture for 3614937-002.  First photo is before, 2nd is after.

Offline SANDAC

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Another before and after.  This is 3614937-004.  I'll upload all to CC, but I thought I share some with the CCF members.

Offline badon

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Very nice! NCS did a beautiful job on those coins.

Offline cnel8826

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I watched a you tube video about this, they removed the red spots with the flame of the lighter

Offline PandaCollector

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I watched a you tube video about this, they removed the red spots with the flame of the lighter

Be very careful how you do this. You can fuse residue and dirt to the surface - take my word for it!

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com