Topic: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone

[exchange]

How many more stories do we need before people realize a safety deposit box in your local bank is the best option. This is not to mention all the stories that are not publicized. All this confiscation talk about the government seizing your box is non sense. It did not happen in 1933 when most savers saved in gold , and it is not going to happen now when most savers don't even have gold.


GONZALES, La. (AP) — Ascension Parish Sheriff Jeff Wiley says a $500,000 coin collection is the likely reason home invaders killed a 74-year-old man and his 50-year-old stepson, leaving the older man's wife critically injured. He tells The Advocate that deputies were sent to the house late Saturday because relatives had been unable to reach the family by phone.
Wiley says nobody answered the door, so deputies broke in. They found 72-year-old Shirley Marchand alive, and the bodies of Robert Irwin Marchand and 50-year-old Douglas Dooley — the son of Shirley Marchand. Wiley says their throats all had been cut. He says they also had other cuts and appeared to have been bludgeoned.
Shirley Marchand was in a hospital Sunday. Wiley says the safe that held the coin collection is missing.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/139634543.html


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[badon]

While keeping valuables in your home is reckless, bank safe deposit boxes ARE subject to seizure. The government DID seize gold in the 1930's, and they seize valuables today. They usually make up some excuse for why they're entitled to your wealth, and then the case is swept under the rug. Murderers and thieves never hold themselves accountable.

Recently, bank box seizures have been making the news in California because the government there has become greedy enough to execute the seizures without any official-sounding pretenses:

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+deposit+box+seizures

[exchange]

While keeping valuables in your home is reckless, bank safe deposit boxes ARE subject to seizure. The government DID seize gold in the 1930's, and they seize valuables today. They usually make up some excuse for why they're entitled to your wealth, and then the case is swept under the rug. Murderers and thieves never hold themselves accountable.

Recently, bank box seizures have been making the news in California because the government there has become greedy enough to execute the seizures without any official-sounding pretenses:

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+deposit+box+seizures

I diasgree. The government did not seized safe deposit boxes in the 1930's. Handing over your gold to the government was voluntary. The government asked its people to hand over their gold for its current value of $20.67 an ounce, they never went into the banks and started confiscating. They paid for the gold they received. This entire seizure thing is what the numismatic companies love to use so they can scare people away from buying bullion and instead buying expensive overpriced numismatic coins as it was the numismatic coins that were not required to be handed over to the government in the 1930's.

That particular story from one of the links is the same old story people use to try to scare people away.  If you don't pay your yearly bill for a safety deposit box and the bank has tried to contact you several times to no avail because the owner moved to a new address, don't blame the bank.


"Executive Order 6102 required U.S. citizens to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102



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[badon]

I did not link to just one particular story, I linked to a search for them. There are many. You should click the link and read them. If you dig deeper, you'll find that EO6102 was unpopular, and no court would publicly uphold a conviction under it, but that did not mean gold was not seized. The justification for the seizures was just changed to something else that wouldn't draw public attention.

When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant.

You have the right to remain silent, and your gold is not yours if somebody knows you have it.

[exchange]

I did not link to just one particular story, I linked to a search for them. There are many. You should click the link and read them. If you dig deeper, you'll find that EO6102 was unpopular, and no court would publicly uphold a conviction under it, but that did not mean gold was not seized. The justification for the seizures was just changed to something else that wouldn't draw public attention.

When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant.

You have the right to remain silent, and your gold is not yours if somebody knows you have it.

I saw the links, repetitive stories from sources in most cases I trust less than the government. The same old searches in california.

"When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant. "

It is not irrelevant, it was voluntary. Back then people cared and wanted to do the right thing. You should know, the American culture back then cared more for its country.


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[badon]

I'm sure the threats of today's equivalent of $100,000+ in fines and many years (or an unnaturally short lifetime) being tortured in prisons had nothing to do with so many patriotic Americans giving their wealth to the government. Once again, the distinctions of who the criminals are is blurred. Either way, you're poorer and they're richer.

I think Ming The Merciless would like Americans:

The Emperor Ming: They'll be more docile. Tractable. Easier for you to rule, in the name of Ming.
Flash Gordon: You mean they'd be slaves.
The Emperor Ming: Let's just say they'll be satisfied with less.

That's from "Flash Gordon", which first came out of Hollywood in the 1930's, right around the time when the subject of this discussion began. Fact is stranger than fiction. Let's change it around a little, just for fun:

Officer Smith: They'll be more docile. Patriotic. Easier for you to get voted in office, in the name of Freedom.
Joe Q. Public: You mean they'd be slaves.
Officer Smith: Let's just say they'll be satisfied with less.

Sometimes the real criminals don't have pointy eyebrows and a ridiculously huge collar on their capes - er, suits. Sometimes, they blend in, shake hands, torture and murder prisoners, and smile a lot.

[Underbidder]

+ 1000

[KonaJim]

Something to keep in mind regardless if you own coins or not.  Every person needs to have a plan for their own security.  As our society becomes more severely impacted economically crime will escalate.  There are a variety of steps that can be taken.  This can range from private security for the ultra-rich to putting a sign on your house that your home is protected by a security system, even if it's not, cost about $ 2.00.  There were some excellent posts on closed circuit systems.  Dogs are an excellent deterrent.  Guns work well if you know how to use them.  Just as you should be responsible in life for your economic safety, and your health, you should also be responsible for your security.  Stay safe.

[Underbidder]

I got rid of my PMs, sold out at the top, bought treasuries, oh yeah, am so glad I did.
Yup...

[comeaux]

Everyone needs to do what makes them feel comfortable but I have several safety deposit boxes and have for years, I feel good about it ... no worries at all.

I would never keep coins or pm's in my home.   

[Underbidder]

Great hearing from ya again, Comeaux!

[BChung]

Well a bank in Hong Kong (DBS of Singapore) dumped around a hundred safety deposit boxes to the dumpster by "accident". I was not realize until customers started complaining of them missing.

but then again I live in apartments where are guards 24 hours on the clock, and there is so little space between buildings here it would be next to impossible to be not spotted climbing up a building from their exterior wall.  


http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Front_Page/FJ06Aa01.html

[comeaux]

Hey underbidder !

Thanks and yea I took a short break from posting as I have been really busy on business travels, holidays & the baby but I have been reading here a lot.

I know that you have always been pretty much “anti safety boxes” but in my case they have been really good to have. I can appreciate the apprehension of some folks not wanting them but I really feel secure with them

Although I have a very good home alarm system and safe, some punky nephews of mine broke into my house when they knew I was traveling on business and stole a 5 gallon water jug full of coins along with my Heckler & Koch USP 9mm and a few other small items. They never found my safe and I doubt they could have gotten into it but I was comforted just to know that 90% of my numis & pm’s were stored in bank lock boxes.

A home security/alarm system is good but if punks like my nephews know that they do have a few minutes before the cops are alerted and arrive, they can still do a bit of damage and get out. 

On a side note, don’t rely on the cops to be of much help because I basically pointed out to them who the perpetrators were and gave them a lot of evidence but their reply was “you know they did it, we know they did it but there is not beyond a reasonable doubt evidence for criminal prosecution”

Anyway I would just caution anyone from keeping massive amounts of precious metals or numismatics in your home, especially if you are away from home a lot. It could be devastating.         

[Underbidder]

Me?  Anti "Safety boxes" ?  Naw....

When I had valuables, I used to keep 'em in safety boxes.  In several places.  I am a ig believer in not keeping all one's eggs
in any single basket...
Home breakins are becoming more and more common, sadly...

[badon]

On a side note, don’t rely on the cops to be of much help because I basically pointed out to them who the perpetrators were and gave them a lot of evidence but their reply was “you know they did it, we know they did it but there is not beyond a reasonable doubt evidence for criminal prosecution”

If your nephews owed them $2, they would scorch the earth in order to squeeze it out of them. Stopping crime is not in the best interest of police. It would be like a window seller trying to stop people who break windows.

I know of a case where a neighbor kid was cutting open the soft top of a convertible car, and stealing the radio. This happened over and over again, each time within a week of repairs being done. Naturally, the victim eventually set up a video camera that showed the kid coming out of the house next door, cutting the soft top of the car's roof, climbing in, climbing out with the radio, and then going back into the house next door. Any moron could see clearly who the kid was, so the victim took the video to his local police station and showed it to the detectives there.

You know what they said? They don't have enough funding to hire the officers needed to investigate petty crime!

So, disappointed, the victim got into his shredded car, and began the drive home. As he turned onto the street in front of his house a police car turned on its lights and followed him into his driveway, and then the officer gave him a fine for not using his turn signal! It suddenly became blurred, yet again, who the real thieves are.

The only thing that's certain is that you're always going to be the loser, and your "protection" isn't there to protect you.