Author Topic: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone  (Read 5669 times)

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Offline exchange

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2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« on: February 19, 2012, 09:06:30 PM »
How many more stories do we need before people realize a safety deposit box in your local bank is the best option. This is not to mention all the stories that are not publicized. All this confiscation talk about the government seizing your box is non sense. It did not happen in 1933 when most savers saved in gold , and it is not going to happen now when most savers don't even have gold.


GONZALES, La. (AP) — Ascension Parish Sheriff Jeff Wiley says a $500,000 coin collection is the likely reason home invaders killed a 74-year-old man and his 50-year-old stepson, leaving the older man's wife critically injured. He tells The Advocate that deputies were sent to the house late Saturday because relatives had been unable to reach the family by phone.
Wiley says nobody answered the door, so deputies broke in. They found 72-year-old Shirley Marchand alive, and the bodies of Robert Irwin Marchand and 50-year-old Douglas Dooley — the son of Shirley Marchand. Wiley says their throats all had been cut. He says they also had other cuts and appeared to have been bludgeoned.
Shirley Marchand was in a hospital Sunday. Wiley says the safe that held the coin collection is missing.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/139634543.html


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Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 09:28:29 PM »
While keeping valuables in your home is reckless, bank safe deposit boxes ARE subject to seizure. The government DID seize gold in the 1930's, and they seize valuables today. They usually make up some excuse for why they're entitled to your wealth, and then the case is swept under the rug. Murderers and thieves never hold themselves accountable.

Recently, bank box seizures have been making the news in California because the government there has become greedy enough to execute the seizures without any official-sounding pretenses:

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+deposit+box+seizures

Offline exchange

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 09:39:09 PM »
While keeping valuables in your home is reckless, bank safe deposit boxes ARE subject to seizure. The government DID seize gold in the 1930's, and they seize valuables today. They usually make up some excuse for why they're entitled to your wealth, and then the case is swept under the rug. Murderers and thieves never hold themselves accountable.

Recently, bank box seizures have been making the news in California because the government there has become greedy enough to execute the seizures without any official-sounding pretenses:

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+deposit+box+seizures

I diasgree. The government did not seized safe deposit boxes in the 1930's. Handing over your gold to the government was voluntary. The government asked its people to hand over their gold for its current value of $20.67 an ounce, they never went into the banks and started confiscating. They paid for the gold they received. This entire seizure thing is what the numismatic companies love to use so they can scare people away from buying bullion and instead buying expensive overpriced numismatic coins as it was the numismatic coins that were not required to be handed over to the government in the 1930's.

That particular story from one of the links is the same old story people use to try to scare people away.  If you don't pay your yearly bill for a safety deposit box and the bank has tried to contact you several times to no avail because the owner moved to a new address, don't blame the bank.


"Executive Order 6102 required U.S. citizens to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102



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« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:46:27 PM by exchange »

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 10:02:22 PM »
I did not link to just one particular story, I linked to a search for them. There are many. You should click the link and read them. If you dig deeper, you'll find that EO6102 was unpopular, and no court would publicly uphold a conviction under it, but that did not mean gold was not seized. The justification for the seizures was just changed to something else that wouldn't draw public attention.

When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant.

You have the right to remain silent, and your gold is not yours if somebody knows you have it.

Offline exchange

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 10:11:44 PM »
I did not link to just one particular story, I linked to a search for them. There are many. You should click the link and read them. If you dig deeper, you'll find that EO6102 was unpopular, and no court would publicly uphold a conviction under it, but that did not mean gold was not seized. The justification for the seizures was just changed to something else that wouldn't draw public attention.

When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant.

You have the right to remain silent, and your gold is not yours if somebody knows you have it.

I saw the links, repetitive stories from sources in most cases I trust less than the government. The same old searches in california.

"When an unpopular law is passed authorizing gold seizures, and the government claims to have never enforced it, you should ask why they suddenly have a fresh supply of several tons of gold. Whether it was "voluntary" or not under some newly rationalized definition is irrelevant. "

It is not irrelevant, it was voluntary. Back then people cared and wanted to do the right thing. You should know, the American culture back then cared more for its country.


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Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 10:38:35 PM »
I'm sure the threats of today's equivalent of $100,000+ in fines and many years (or an unnaturally short lifetime) being tortured in prisons had nothing to do with so many patriotic Americans giving their wealth to the government. Once again, the distinctions of who the criminals are is blurred. Either way, you're poorer and they're richer.

I think Ming The Merciless would like Americans:

The Emperor Ming: They'll be more docile. Tractable. Easier for you to rule, in the name of Ming.
Flash Gordon: You mean they'd be slaves.
The Emperor Ming: Let's just say they'll be satisfied with less.

That's from "Flash Gordon", which first came out of Hollywood in the 1930's, right around the time when the subject of this discussion began. Fact is stranger than fiction. Let's change it around a little, just for fun:

Officer Smith: They'll be more docile. Patriotic. Easier for you to get voted in office, in the name of Freedom.
Joe Q. Public: You mean they'd be slaves.
Officer Smith: Let's just say they'll be satisfied with less.

Sometimes the real criminals don't have pointy eyebrows and a ridiculously huge collar on their capes - er, suits. Sometimes, they blend in, shake hands, torture and murder prisoners, and smile a lot.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 10:59:21 PM by badon »

Underbidder

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 10:46:34 PM »
+ 1000

Offline KonaJim

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 11:21:56 PM »
Something to keep in mind regardless if you own coins or not.  Every person needs to have a plan for their own security.  As our society becomes more severely impacted economically crime will escalate.  There are a variety of steps that can be taken.  This can range from private security for the ultra-rich to putting a sign on your house that your home is protected by a security system, even if it's not, cost about $ 2.00.  There were some excellent posts on closed circuit systems.  Dogs are an excellent deterrent.  Guns work well if you know how to use them.  Just as you should be responsible in life for your economic safety, and your health, you should also be responsible for your security.  Stay safe.

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 11:54:22 PM »
I got rid of my PMs, sold out at the top, bought treasuries, oh yeah, am so glad I did.
Yup...

Offline comeaux

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 12:31:54 AM »
Everyone needs to do what makes them feel comfortable but I have several safety deposit boxes and have for years, I feel good about it ... no worries at all.

I would never keep coins or pm's in my home.   


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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 12:35:24 AM »
Great hearing from ya again, Comeaux!

Offline BChung

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 01:58:12 AM »
Well a bank in Hong Kong (DBS of Singapore) dumped around a hundred safety deposit boxes to the dumpster by "accident". I was not realize until customers started complaining of them missing.

but then again I live in apartments where are guards 24 hours on the clock, and there is so little space between buildings here it would be next to impossible to be not spotted climbing up a building from their exterior wall.  


http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Front_Page/FJ06Aa01.html

Offline comeaux

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 11:32:06 AM »
Hey underbidder !

Thanks and yea I took a short break from posting as I have been really busy on business travels, holidays & the baby but I have been reading here a lot.

I know that you have always been pretty much “anti safety boxes” but in my case they have been really good to have. I can appreciate the apprehension of some folks not wanting them but I really feel secure with them

Although I have a very good home alarm system and safe, some punky nephews of mine broke into my house when they knew I was traveling on business and stole a 5 gallon water jug full of coins along with my Heckler & Koch USP 9mm and a few other small items. They never found my safe and I doubt they could have gotten into it but I was comforted just to know that 90% of my numis & pm’s were stored in bank lock boxes.

A home security/alarm system is good but if punks like my nephews know that they do have a few minutes before the cops are alerted and arrive, they can still do a bit of damage and get out.  :(

On a side note, don’t rely on the cops to be of much help because I basically pointed out to them who the perpetrators were and gave them a lot of evidence but their reply was “you know they did it, we know they did it but there is not beyond a reasonable doubt evidence for criminal prosecution”

Anyway I would just caution anyone from keeping massive amounts of precious metals or numismatics in your home, especially if you are away from home a lot. It could be devastating.         

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 11:48:29 AM »
Me?  Anti "Safety boxes" ?  Naw....

When I had valuables, I used to keep 'em in safety boxes.  In several places.  I am a ig believer in not keeping all one's eggs
in any single basket...
Home breakins are becoming more and more common, sadly...

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 01:43:20 PM »
On a side note, don’t rely on the cops to be of much help because I basically pointed out to them who the perpetrators were and gave them a lot of evidence but their reply was “you know they did it, we know they did it but there is not beyond a reasonable doubt evidence for criminal prosecution”

If your nephews owed them $2, they would scorch the earth in order to squeeze it out of them. Stopping crime is not in the best interest of police. It would be like a window seller trying to stop people who break windows.

I know of a case where a neighbor kid was cutting open the soft top of a convertible car, and stealing the radio. This happened over and over again, each time within a week of repairs being done. Naturally, the victim eventually set up a video camera that showed the kid coming out of the house next door, cutting the soft top of the car's roof, climbing in, climbing out with the radio, and then going back into the house next door. Any moron could see clearly who the kid was, so the victim took the video to his local police station and showed it to the detectives there.

You know what they said? They don't have enough funding to hire the officers needed to investigate petty crime!

So, disappointed, the victim got into his shredded car, and began the drive home. As he turned onto the street in front of his house a police car turned on its lights and followed him into his driveway, and then the officer gave him a fine for not using his turn signal! It suddenly became blurred, yet again, who the real thieves are.

The only thing that's certain is that you're always going to be the loser, and your "protection" isn't there to protect you.

Offline GDG's

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 02:19:59 PM »
Too bad it's come to this. I do have my collection in safe deposit boxes. Unfortunately I can't view my collection whenever I want like I used to do. I do have my house alarmed using infrared  but the dog kept on setting the alarm off. My dog is a Rhodesian Ridgeback and more aggressive then my old Rottie.So now the infrared stays off at night inside the house. I do keep guns in my home and my even my wife has been taught how to use them. I keep a 12gauge loaded with the safety on for night and am one of the few in NY that has a carry permit. I'm 6'5" 275lbs and have NEVER had a problem in all my years I lived in NY. But today I'm getting older. Who do the criminals prey on? The older, women, children or anyone they feel are easy prey. My home in the Texas Hill country is very beautiful but does have a problem with b & e's. All I can say is have a plan and a backup plan. I'm the kind of person who would take a bullet before I'd give over a dime. That's not smart but it's the way I grew. I think a security dog beats any alarm system. Always take precautions when transporting any coins. I know the diamond district in NY gets knocked over time and time again every year usually through sheer stupidity.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 02:57:00 PM »
Keep your valuables in multiple places to include international.  Here is a neat article about keeping assets outside CONUS and how taxes will definitely place a role moving forward. 


Simon Black,

Date: February 15, 2012
Reporting From: Santiago, Chile
The Foreign Account Tax Compliance act, or FATCA, is one of the most arrogant pieces of legislation ever conceived. President Obama signed the Act into law in 2010, and there are a some key provisions that are important to understand.

Reporting Requirements of US Tax Serfs holding Foreign Financial Assets

According to the IRS, "FATCA requires certain U.S. taxpayers holding foreign financial assets with an aggregate value exceeding $50,000 to report certain information about those assets on a new form (Form 8938) that must be attached to the taxpayer'Äôs annual tax return."

In other words, the law extends the existing reporting and disclosure requirements for US citizens and residents holding certain assets abroad.


Reporting Requirements of Foreign Financial Institutions

This is the part that's really arrogant. The US government is requiring any foreign organization it deems to be a financial institution to enter into an information-sharing agreement with the IRS. They're effectively trying to regulate what foreign companies do on foreign soil. Seriously arrogant.

The analogy I always use is that it's like the government of Saudi Arabia forbidding US grocery store chains from selling pork to Saudi citizens who happen to be on US soil.

Here's the kicker. Foreign banks who thumb their nose at the US government and do not enter into the information sharing agreement face a steep penalty: a 30% tax will be withheld on US-source income that goes to, or through, their bank.


Some things to consider when internationalizing ones assets...

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 03:20:26 PM »
The IRS is not about taxes. It's an intelligence agency for spying on Americans. If the IRS were eliminated, the government's net revenue would increase substantially. They're not buying tax revenue with IRS funding, they're buying information.

Offline comeaux

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 07:21:58 PM »
If your nephews owed them $2, they would scorch the earth in order to squeeze it out of them. Stopping crime is not in the best interest of police. It would be like a window seller trying to stop people who break windows.

Yes I have to agree with you on this as the police did not help much on my case. I would call and check in with the police about once a week and see how things were progressing and always got the same old story of “we are still investigating it”.

After a while I just figured that nothing would be done so I called the investigator and asked for the evidence back that I submitted. He asked why I wanted it back so I told him that I was going to pursue it through civil court and that I wanted the evidence in order to bring it to a lawyer for an opinion on if I had a good case.

He told me if I wanted the evidence (that was found on my property) that I would have to serve the police department a subpoena to get it !!! I was sort of incredulous at this answer but then just gave up and took my lumps.

The sad part is I was so pissed after all of this that I called my punk nephew and left a voice message (he didn’t have the balls to answer) that if I ever caught him on my property, I would break every bone in his body. So the next day I get a call from the investigator to come down to the police station which I was thinking “great … they must have some information on my case !!!  :w00t: ” so I hurry down to the police station only to have a written warning handed to me that if I make threatening phone calls again I will be arrested ???  Ridiculous …   

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 08:02:53 PM »
The police do not want people defending themselves. That would be like a competing window seller offering unbreakable windows. If you try to break the police monopoly on violence and protection from violence, you and your friends will be murdered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_County_War

Billy the Kid was demonized by the government for 100 years because the murderers and thieves that killed him were the ones who wrote down his history. But, the truth was never fully eliminated, and now that the murderers themselves are finally dead, historians have been free to collect the surviving first-person accounts of what really happened.

It turns out that Billy the Kid was not an outlaw until business competitors of his employers paid bribes to police to make him into one after he survived to escape the systematic murder of everyone else. They eventually got him, too, though. BtK is America's Ned Kelly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly

But with a much milder disposition, and much more foolish, hopeful and trusting outlook. Billy the Kid was murdered while making food in his kitchen, and Ned Kelly was murdered after he and countless other co-victims ran out of bullets.

The Western civilization has been sick for a long time, and has been in a protracted decline for about 200 years, give or take. The things that has kept the West going are American ideals about freedom, justice, and equality that enough people took seriously to keep the murderers and thieves from taking over completely unchallenged for too long.

Ned Kelly is a national hero to this day in Australia, and Billy the Kid is gradually becoming viewed the same way in America. Although they never asked for the job, they were forced to challenge the murderers and thieves, or die trying, and even though they both were illegally executed, their legends grow more meaningful with every ticking second.

Evil can never be stomped out completely - in fact, the well-meaning attempt to do so merely causes it to grow stronger. No, instead, it's the unfortunately chosen ones who singly bear humanity's burden of keeping evil at bay just enough to prevent the triumph of chaos.

Billy the Kid and Ned Kelly were imperfect, and they both made fatal tactical and strategic mistakes. But, it wasn't what they did or didn't do that mattered. Despite their failings, they inspired people to help them in small ways during their times of need. It was that effect, which brought out some small bravery and strength in the fearful and weak, that will continue to persist for centuries later.

In America, there is a saying about murderers and thieves in government that "You can't beat City Hall". It should end with the phrase: "But WE can beat City Hall". And, "10,000 pecking sparrows can force the dragon to find another place to sleep". I'm sure somebody like Confucious said that first :)

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2012, 09:52:42 PM »
The police do not want people defending themselves. That would be like a competing window seller offering unbreakable windows. If you try to break the police monopoly on violence and protection from violence, you and your friends will be murdered:

Badon, this is not your opinion right??  I have to say that coming from a family full of police officers that include Boston PD administration with over 40 years on the force.  Washington DC Mounted Police with over 30 years with that department and more than a dozen other family members that stretch over 3 generations I would have to say that might be the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. 

First of all police work is not a monopoly, every private business is allowed to police themselves including using armed officers, CCTV, internal investigation, and third party agencies.  Police Departments themselves often have multiple agencies overlapping jurisdictions Example: City departments, County Sheriffs department, State Troopers, Motor Vehicle enforcement, just to name a few.

Second, most if not all police would and do support and educated and trained civilian that is armed and ready to defend him/herself, those around them and in some states their property.

In fact in most states in order to receive a CCW or Carry a Concealed Weapons permit you must train, test and qualify with a state Peace Officer.  Then that state issues a CCW which may or may not reciprocate with other states.

The comment is so far off it is laughable.
 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2012, 11:09:54 PM »
I grew up with military and have been friends with many police officers.  Today law enforcement does not follow the rules.  I am not commenting on coin theft but in general the City and County Police in the Pacific NW are well known for lies, rape, crime with no accountability.  Our Federal Agents and State Troopers are honest as are some of our City and County police.  Many articles of police misbehavior have been writen in the largest Oregon newspaper, the Oregonian.  It is common knowledge in most NW communities that the City and County police are the criminals and stay away from them.  When I grew up a military brat, we had legal system employees that held bad cops accountable.  Today there is no one to police our cops so we have corruption and failure.  It has become so pitiful that the Washington DC Dept of Justice arrived in Portland OR June 9, 2011 and now has a presence in Spokane WA.  To clean up the legal corruption in the NW will take a military presence and I don't think the Dept of Justice can fix it.  I have written many letters including the White House, DOJ, etc to stop our criminal legal employees.  I hope someone in the National media will take note as that is the only option left to slow down legal crime...........

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2012, 11:21:04 PM »
Badon, this is not your opinion right??  I have to say that coming from a family full of police officers that include Boston PD administration with over 40 years on the force.  Washington DC Mounted Police with over 30 years with that department and more than a dozen other family members that stretch over 3 generations I would have to say that might be the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. 

First of all police work is not a monopoly, every private business is allowed to police themselves including using armed officers, CCTV, internal investigation, and third party agencies.  Police Departments themselves often have multiple agencies overlapping jurisdictions Example: City departments, County Sheriffs department, State Troopers, Motor Vehicle enforcement, just to name a few.

Second, most if not all police would and do support and educated and trained civilian that is armed and ready to defend him/herself, those around them and in some states their property.

In fact in most states in order to receive a CCW or Carry a Concealed Weapons permit you must train, test and qualify with a state Peace Officer.  Then that state issues a CCW which may or may not reciprocate with other states.

The comment is so far off it is laughable.

I say that directed at police as a political institution, not at individual police officers. The majority of police officers are just pawns like everybody else. In fact, many of the politicians are too. There is no one person or class of people to blame - We're talking about a flood where no individual raindrop feels responsible, and indeed, is actually not individually responsible. That's the nature of political governments (including democracy) in general.

The controlling Western governments are modeled on the Roman Republican system, which operates under the assumption that nobody can be trusted - That's the basis of the 3 branches of government in America, senates, houses, congresses, Bundesrats, Dumas, etc, and so on. They're all essentially the same thing - a tragedy of the commons, with no effective chain of command.

Did you know that the first recorded formalized modern democracies were bands and alliances of Caribbean pirates? That's right, if everybody is a criminal, democracy and politics are the governing systems of choice.

It's not until the house of cards collapses and everybody goes home that the people realize that they need strong, responsible, trustworthy leadership both within themselves and for the people above and below them in the societal hierarchy.

I have a personal policy. I never enter into binding contracts to do business with someone, and I never ask anyone else to do so either. If I can't trust the people I'm doing business with, and if they can't trust me, then I want nothing to do with it. That policy has served me very well, financially. I've been screwed over in a big way many, many times - a lot more than the average Joe - but I still ended up better off than the average Joe.

In the end, it's really all about arrogance and humility. Or, as the Western ancients preferred to call it, hubris and humility. In the West, people are taught from birth about democracy and how important their opinion is. Nobody considers if maybe it would be better if some decisions weren't made by people completely disconnected with it.

The East realizes this. Unity, trust, and responsibility (accountability) within a governing system is the only way to prevent a flood of self-destruction. The planet is at a crossroads. People thought in the 1950's that doomsday could come at any moment...that was long ago, and people are not nearly worried enough.

One more thing about the issue of police: one bad apple spoils the bunch. That's why policing is, and always has been, an organized criminal institution. I know plenty of fine people who are, or were, police officers. They tell me all kinds of stories of the horrors they've seen other police do to people. Not one of them that is still alive has ever tried to report it.

New York City did a study on their police brutality cases and discovered that, out of hundreds of police officers, most hospitalizations and deaths were caused by only a few of them. That's a handful of people who are able to terrorize millions. That's how a tiny minority of the population can heil the Fuhrer and wipe out entire countries of people.

Conversely, it only took one guy with a pistol in the Warsaw Ghetto to send a whole army of Nazi soldiers with the finest machine guns available, running for their lives.

Somebody has to say it like it is. Police is or will become a criminal institution every time it is formed. They are put to work as lap-dog thugs for the Alpha wolf that dominates them, just like everybody else. Anybody that challenges them ends up with a bullet in the face like Frank Serpico, or worse. Frank Serpico was privileged enough as a fellow police officer to be murdered with a relatively quick method (he survived to tell the story). Everybody else gets eaten alive.

We do not need guys with guns escalating every interaction until people get killed. The Alpha wolf is smart, and he can escalate without anybody noticing. Then when the fight starts, all of his less-intelligent lap-dogs come running to his aid, and then the whole situation turns into a pack of wild animals slurping blood and relishing screams, in a case of primitive prey-drive gone wrong.

The problem with smart criminals is you don't even realize they're criminals. If they all dressed like Emperor Ming, maybe they would stand out more. They're manipulators, and their primary tool is hate. You can control anyone by making them hate. It's incredibly easy - that's why the TV is all about who we're supposed to hate today. It worked for the Nazis, it worked for Stalin, and it works for the Alpha wolf on your local police force.

That's why I condemn irreconcilable hatred, even if it is justly deserved. Frank Serpico didn't beat his would-be murders with fire and brimstone - he did it with a cool head and a plan for resolution. That's why every country that came to be via revolution is a death trap right now. Here's a handy list:

* China
* Vietnam
* North Korea
* 99.999% of Africa
* Iran
* America
* Cuba

That should be enough get an idea of how things turn out after a revolution. If you're wondering what's so bad about America, did you know that 1 in 3 American men get imprisoned? Imprisonment is the opposite of freedom, but it's the solution for everything in America. Once imprisoned, torture, disease, and death are what awaits. Nobody talks about it, but because of America's prisons, disease epidemics are spreading throughout the nation.

The mathematical models of the spread predict that everyone in America will be infected until the population develops resistance ("herd immunity"). A lot of people are going to have to die before the population develops immunity to HIV, MRSA, hepatitis, tuberculosis, and other other fatal imprisonment diseases.

That's all I've got to say for now. Have a nice day :)

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2012, 11:22:23 PM »
I grew up with military and have been friends with many police officers.  Today law enforcement does not follow the rules.  I am not commenting on coin theft but in general the City and County Police in the Pacific NW are well known for lies, rape, crime with no accountability. 

I read somewhere that rape is 1400% more likely to be committed by a police officer than by a registered sex offender. That's the Bible of WTF is happening in America, right there.

Offline badon

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2012, 11:30:03 PM »
Yep, here it is:

http://constitutionaldefense.org/?p=3779

It looks like the data is somewhat speculative, but when dealing with data like this, you have to assume it's possibly much worse than it appears. Police are the ones who both collect evidence, and accuse defendants. That basically gives them complete control over who gets imprisoned, and who doesn't, regardless of what the truth is. For every time a police rape is recorded, there's a thousand times that it isn't recorded, and maybe far more! But, it goes much further than the crimes police commit personally.

Crimes committed by people on probation or parole are often forced by police threatening to frame and reimprison the ex-convict if he doesn't do as he is told. That sort of crime-at-a-distance is by definition, organized crime, as applied to officially recognized organized crime groups, but not police.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2012, 02:24:33 AM »
I grew up with military and have been friends with many police officers.  Today law enforcement does not follow the rules.  I am not commenting on coin theft but in general the City and County Police in the Pacific NW are well known for lies, rape, crime with no accountability.  Our Federal Agents and State Troopers are honest as are some of our City and County police.  Many articles of police misbehavior have been writen in the largest Oregon newspaper, the Oregonian.  It is common knowledge in most NW communities that the City and County police are the criminals and stay away from them.  When I grew up a military brat, we had legal system employees that held bad cops accountable.  Today there is no one to police our cops so we have corruption and failure.  It has become so pitiful that the Washington DC Dept of Justice arrived in Portland OR June 9, 2011 and now has a presence in Spokane WA.  To clean up the legal corruption in the NW will take a military presence and I don't think the Dept of Justice can fix it.  I have written many letters including the White House, DOJ, etc to stop our criminal legal employees.  I hope someone in the National media will take note as that is the only option left to slow down legal crime...........

Interesting comments.  I often heard the area near Ft Lewis got ghetto after I left, lol.  Not to dilute anything you're saying but I have lost total trust and confidence in the Police Force.  Any police force as I have lived in many states and my work takes me all over the world so I have different perspective on things.  Although Im sure not all police officers are $hitbags as not all politicians are corrupt, just most of them are.  I just want the rule of law to come back?  Is that asking too much? 

Offline comeaux

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2012, 11:15:01 AM »
No disrespect but I don’t think any of badon’s comments are “laughable” …

I also grew up a military brat my whole life and my grandfather was a deputy sheriff for 40 years in a small Louisiana town. I have several family members that currently are involved in law enforcement. I live with my wife and son in a very nice and quite subdivision in a small town in South Louisiana. I have never been in trouble with the law.

So I say all of this because being closely associated with relatives in the military and law enforcement, I always try to give the police respect and appreciation for what they do but I have to agree with comments from other members about how corrupt the police force has become (not all but many). Not only in the case where my home was broken into and robbed (my treatment here was very laughable) but in almost every other situation where I or my family has needed help from the police force, they were not very helpful at all and in many cases just downright rude and uncaring.

My wife and I were recently having a conversation about things we would like to teach our 14 month old son as he gets older. I’m raising him “old school” where adults will be respected and addressed “yes ma’am” and “yes sir” and there will be discipline in his live. We got on the topic of respecting authorities and we both agreed that neither of us (or anyone we know) really view law enforcement as we did growing up as kids when police officers were much different than today. We frequently see unethical behavior of the police force here locally and in the news almost every day. I will teach my son to respect police officers and authority but as he gets older he will form his own opinion and unless things start to change with law enforcement, I don’t think his opinion will be any different than mine right now and that is I honestly do not trust the police force and I do not feel that they help me or protect me.           

Badon mentioned rape by police officers …

In South Louisiana where I live, “Comeaux” is a very common Cajun name so there is probably 10 or more “Randy Comeaux’s” living within 50 miles of me, some are good and some of them have done horrible things. There is the one that is a dentist, a habitual DWI offender, me the lifetime oil & gas operator and then there is the serial rapest. If you do a google search for Randy Comeaux in Lafayette, http://www.katc.com/news/serial-rapist-comeaux-demands-evidence-returned/you will more than likely find the Louisiana State Trooper who was convicted and sentenced to life as a serial rapest. He would pull over woman on dark roads throughout the parish and rape them. This went on for years before he was caught and convicted. They put up a billboard here in town with his name across it for the things he did but I’m very glad that they put his face as well so people did not think it was me !

This is only one incident of the hundreds/thousands that occur every year with law enforcement officers across this country so it is rightfully so that neither I nor many other citizens actually trust police officers anymore.

I know there are still a few upstanding and respectable law enforcement officers and this post means no disrespect to them but there are just too many now that are corrupt. The police force has largely become a group of bullies with a gang mentality. Until things change … this is how I view law enforcement.

Sorry to get off topic about the home invasion and murder for coins. Where this happened at in Gonzales, Lousiana is only about an hour drive from where I live … I am familiar with that town and its police force. I doubt much will be done in that case as well except probably the arrest (and tazing) of some family member of the victim who gets irate with the police for doing nothing.

Year of the Dog

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Re: 2 dead, 1 hurt, $500K coin collection gone
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2012, 11:58:43 AM »
It's funny to watch the twists and turns of discussions. 
My comments was directed to Badons statement.  Which in short said that police departments are a monopoly and don't want private citizens armed with guns to protect themselves, family, and property.  That comment is completely FALSE.......

Are local police departments becoming more and more corrupt?  I truly believe they are.  My father was a police officer for 21 years in a mid major city.  In his entire 21 years he wrote 1 traffic ticket(He pulled over a guy for DUI was going to follow him home but the guy backed into my fathers cruiser.  What do you do)?  Not to say he didn't make several traffic stops including DUIs.  But he always saw the big picture.  Which is: If he arrests this guy, impounds his car and causes thousands of dollars in fines and attorneys fees, then how is he serving the public?

When a Military administration was elected into the Chiefs seat in his department everything changed.  The police department which historically has always been a non profitable division of government was changed to drive revenue.  More tickets means more money, which means nicer equipment, higher wages and more power.   

My father quit went to law school and became an attorney.  He was embarrassed to be a police officer and never again called a police officer a cop or an officer.  He strictly called them Law Enforcement Agents.   Thats all they did enforce laws.   

I know of a local department that hired 2 new recruits based solely on the fact they could right enough tickets to cover the departments and citys costs. The chief at the city planning meeting said that having 2 extra officers on duty was nice for the city "just in case" but that he felt that in would help increase the bottom line for the department.

I notice that this  forum likes to throw out Fun Facts so here is mine.   Seattle Police Department has given more tickets to pedestrians for Jaywalking than for possession of marijuana over the last 7 years.  Some accuse the officers of stealing the drug so they don't right the ticket.  Others say that because pot is legal across the boarder in Vancouver that Western Washington has adopted a very loose policy on pot and will soon adopt laws like California, Colorado and Alaska making pot easy to get and legal to use. 

Again my comments were strictly pointed at the police not wanting a armed civilian population.  Really think about it if they government collapses it's going to the the police that lead the people in revolt.  They are middle class citizens dealing with cutbacks and layoffs just like the rest of the country.  They want and need educated civilians to be there eyes, ears and allies.  What better way to do that then make sure they know how to use a gun properly.