Author Topic: 1984 Pagoda's  (Read 9917 times)

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2012, 08:34:55 PM »
Sooo, it is probably davidt3251 who bought that $3850 Pagoda set.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2012, 08:36:32 PM »
It is even wiser to just make it LOOK like a coin sold for 5-6x more to draw out supply.

Offline badon

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2012, 08:55:21 PM »
Maybe davidt3251 is going to get the last laugh! I know I did. People thought I was crazy to buy the 1995 1 oz gold proof pandas at $8000 when the last ones sold for only around $3500. That always puts a smile on my face :)

I fail to see how pagodas are related to this Button Gwinnett phenomenon.
Konajim quite accurately uses the 1995 proof panda as an example of a good investment to refute pagoda performance.
The 1995 Proof panda is the Button Gwinnett of panda dates (irrespective of variety)
Pagodas are a sub-set of the entire modern Chinese coin market. They have a low relative mintage but are no means the lowest.
Button Gwinnett matters to a sub-set of specialty Declaration of Independance signature collectors the way a 1995 proof panda matters to a huge sect of panda collectors. As such, I don't see how a pagoda is a "Button Gwinnett" coin the way say, a 1995 proof panda is.
At best pagodas are the Robert Livingston's of Modern Chinese coins...

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/livingston_r.htm

The Button Gwinnett Effect is when rarity translates directly into popularity, and thus into price. Rarity is a spectrum, and the BGE affects all coins in the rarity spectrum, regardless of whether they are the rarest or not.

All that is required is for the unpopular Button Gwinnett coin is for it to be part of a popular set. Think of it like the shy kid somehow becoming popular because of one of his siblings is popular. We have some idea of what the rarity is for the pagodas, so the only open question is what popular set the pagoda is connected to. Place your bets, gentlemen!

Here are a few possible sets I have conjured up for myself:

1. All things ancient (historical figures, bronze age, dinosaurs, etc).
2. The pagodas will become a popular set by themselves.
3. Pagodas in general (pandas, pagodas, culturals).
4. China scenery (great wall, pagodas, etc)
5. Early Golden Age modern Chinese coins.
6. Golden Age modern Chinese coins.
7. Modern Chinese coins.

I'm sure there are others we can come up with. As for myself, I really like them just as they are in their own set. All the rest will be a bonus.

Offline exchange

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2012, 09:31:02 PM »

All that is required is for the unpopular Button Gwinnett coin is for it to be part of a popular set. Think of it like the shy kid somehow becoming popular because of one of his siblings is popular. We have some idea of what the rarity is for the pagodas, so the only open question is what popular set the pagoda is connected to. Place your bets, gentlemen!

Here are a few possible sets I have conjured up for myself:

1. All things ancient (historical figures, bronze age, dinosaurs, etc).
2. The pagodas will become a popular set by themselves.
3. Pagodas in general (pandas, pagodas, culturals).
4. China scenery (great wall, pagodas, etc)
5. Early Golden Age modern Chinese coins.
6. Golden Age modern Chinese coins.
7. Modern Chinese coins.

I never really cared for the Pagodas, I guess if it costed me spot, I would of taken a crack at a set.

In reference to Badon's comments regarding what popular set the pagodas would be connected to, I personally think this set would very well compliment something like an antique Chinese Pagoda painting painted by a Chinese painter (perhaps Xu Beihong which I talked about a few times in the past, and he's got his own coins). How nice would it be to have a beautiful Chinese painting of a Pagoda and displayed underneath are the four medals.
How about an antique Pagoda bronze sculpture hand crafted by a Master Chinese sculpture. I am sure the medal set would compliment very well with the sculpture.

Many people who buy a collectable of a particular field don't necessary collect that exact same field. Many times you need to jump from one field to another to get a perfect match for that same topic.

exchange



Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2012, 09:38:42 PM »
I place my bet on 2.  Pagoda is popular all by itself.

I am scanning in old 35mm films and slides with a newly purchased Plustek 7600i (yes, a stupid name, but I highly recommend the scanner), I am now onto my 1982 China trip.  I forgot just how many pagodas I've visited and even more pagoda in the pictures that I didn't go see.  The Chinese landscape is absolutely full of pagodas and they are real living buildings that tourists can go visit and have lunch.  They are enthusiasts of pagoda just like there are enthusiasts of old churchs and castles.  It is a cultural thing that outsiders may not appreciate.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2012, 09:49:24 AM »
As a new collector, what do I know?  Willing to learn.  I throw my hat into the pagoda ring from what I read.  The Chinese coins that were expensive last year have come down to Earth.  They should take off again in price and some have.  Those former spendy coins should go up first and maybe highest.  I call this the "beachball underwater effect".  As prices or beach ball went down there are powerful forces to pop it back up.  We are on our way back up and hopefully, gaining speed.  I am fortunate to have participated in a few markets.  The forces that tug and pull on the money ball (wealth) is always interesting.  This Chinese coin market is new, has passionate participants, huge potential for price increase or decrease (Iran war), different factors come into play such as sector rotation, lots to learn, and a truly fascinating, evolving, worldwide market.  Every day has something new to learn or debate.  :)  ..........

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2012, 10:07:09 AM »
Pagodamonium!
Okay so pandamonium's "BUE" effect Beachball Underwater Effect makes more sense in this case than a Button Gwinnett Effect.
I can see Declaration collectors frustrated because they just need the one signature of someone obscure to complete a set but I don't see this with pagodas.
I don't see a large group of Chinese coin collectors who are only missing the pagodas to complete their collections. (and will pay almost any price to obtain them)
Don't get me wrong, as pagodas with low mintage i do believe they have fantastic investment potential.
For Chinese pagoda coin collectors this will certainly always be a must have series.
For analogies, I simply like the Beachball Underwater Effect better with respect to these.

Offline bonke

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2012, 12:34:26 PM »
As a collector, I enjoy the designs on the Pagoda medals.  One day, hopefully in the near future, I will visit the actual pagodas which are shown on the medals.  Until then, I can look at the designs and search the web for more information about each pagoda.

It would be interesting to know the actual number of Pagoda medals owned by forum members.  Also, it would be interesting to know if these forum member/owners are REALLY investors or collectors.  As I read the comments, I get the impression that most of the comments are from investors who are worried whether they have made the correct choices for their investments.  Otherwise, price would not be such an issue.  As time passes, price will take care of itself.  If China continues to prosper and if the people continue to share in the wealth, the demand for all Chinese coins and medals will grow, and the price will follow this demand.  Collectors, as well as investors, will be able to take advantage of this increase in demand and price.

Spend less time placing a value on what you have and more time enjoying it.

Mark Bonke

Offline badon

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2012, 02:32:56 PM »
Pagodamonium!
Okay so pandamonium's "BUE" effect Beachball Underwater Effect makes more sense in this case than a Button Gwinnett Effect.
I can see Declaration collectors frustrated because they just need the one signature of someone obscure to complete a set but I don't see this with pagodas.
I don't see a large group of Chinese coin collectors who are only missing the pagodas to complete their collections. (and will pay almost any price to obtain them)

This makes perfect sense, especially if we were talking about the American coin market, where there are perhaps only 1 million coin collectors, and maybe only 50,000 "serious" collectors. China is a different thing altogether. The odds of there being more Chinese collectors of pagodas than coins available is very high.

Still, I think I'm going to have to agree that the Beachball Underwater Effect (BUE) is probably more dominant for pagodas than the Button Gwinnett Effect BGE), right now. The BGE is a mature market effect, while the BUE is an immature market effect. After the BUE has had its time, then the BGE will get its chance to shine. So, for right now, BUE is probably the reigning force on the prices of the pagoda sets.

Underbidder

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2012, 04:22:17 PM »
A different thread than Peter's so I trust its allowable by the mod for me to comment.

Luck posts here as a forum member.  He might be a source of valuable information about the Goldfish and thus Pagoda medals, plated or not.


        "   Why don't we just ask Luckmoneyro at LUCKPAWNSHOP if he can have his peeps
find us some plated Pagodas to sell us, along with his plated goldfish?

           Maybe he knows the secret !  

           Ya think his mint made medals are legit?"

            http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-China-of-goldfish-Copper-plating-silver-china-coin-/221007770043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337516f1bb

          "No, they are all fake. The mint did not produce those coins, they are not responsible for the packaging either. That seller is well-known for dealing           exclusively in fakes. I have never seen him sell a genuine coin."

I'm not very versed, but at first glance this item offered by Luck appears legit... Too much going on in the way of COA and box to be faked IMHO:
If he sells legit mint made items I wonder what he might tell us about what else he knows about Goldfish and Pagodas?
 ( if we ask nicely?)

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5054.msg28761#msg28761