Author Topic: 1984 Pagoda's  (Read 9340 times)

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Offline Batman

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1984 Pagoda's
« on: February 13, 2012, 08:03:23 PM »
Clark Smith listed a 69/68 set for $3850.  I checked NGC and there are a possible 33 69 sets graded by NGC.  Also, there are at total of about 50 sets graded.  Given a mintage of 260, I personally believe the ratio of graded sets is high compared to the mintage. Then again, most of these medals could have been exported to the US or maybe a number of them have been graded by submitters in China.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 08:16:55 PM »
Or perhaps there were re-strikes...?

Offline Panda Express

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 09:07:42 PM »
Panda Halves, do you know whether there have been any documented re-strikes on the 1984 Ancient Pagodas?  Would any numismatic expert be able to identify a re-strike compared to the original coin?  The price of this Pagoda set seems to be very low knowing the fact that there are only 260 sets. There is only one PF68 and the rest of the coins are graded PF69 on this particular set.  As mentioned previously in a prior post that there are only 33 possible PF69 sets as of this time.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 11:58:28 PM »
The price IS very good.  I would definitely go for it if I didn't already have a set.  Even with that I'm tempted...  Don't be surprised if the set disappeared tomorrow.

Offline adamc4

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 12:05:57 AM »
I do not know what they will be worth, but I do know current fair market value for a raw set is $2000 and $4000 for a full 69 set.

Offline badon

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 02:58:50 AM »
This happened with the 1995 proof pandas. Someone submitted a bunch of them, and then everybody assumed they were common. They were wrong, and prices quadrupled in about 6 months once supply was gone. The hoard of pagodas were imported by a Chinese dealer in 1984. There are others out there that were also imported by Chinese owners. I'm not aware of them being sold directly to Americans, but the history is not well known yet, so that could have happened too.

Nearly all complete sets I have seen in person were in the possession of the original dealer, and they were unsold since 1984. They have since been dispersed around the USA, with a few more sets being found in China, and also sent to the USA when prices were moving high. Honestly, I think the only thing that saved them from the melting pot was the fancy box. I have heard no reliable reports yet that these were melted, but I would not be surprised if many of them were.

Last I heard, nearly every coin in the hoard was graded all at once. That was about 6 months ago. I have not seen any impressive increases in their population since then. It is possible that the ones we know about now constitute the greater portion of the coins that have survived. If that is true, it will be interesting to watch...

I am not sure how many remain in China, but I think nearly all the ones that were available were sent to the USA. Every dealer that had them found the highest prices in the USA at the time, after many years of them being totally worthless, so they were eager to sell to anyone who would take them.

I will be thoroughly entertained to watch a "Button Gwinnett Effect" unfold for these coins over the next several years.

Offline Panda Express

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 09:43:17 AM »
To see the 1984 Ancient Pagoda set in a PF69 UC lose approximately 84% of its value from its previous high of $25,000 during a private sale a little over a year ago is totally mind boggling.  Recent sales per coin in a PF 69 has been little over a $1,000. per coin.  So for those collectors and/or investors who are searching for value, now would be an opportunity of a life time to get a rare set like this in investment grade IMHO.  A buy and hold strategy even if it takes a couple of years may realize enormous gains for such a rare set with an actual mintage of 260 sets.  Hopefully we will see this rare set rise to greatness once again in the near future once supply dries up and the medals change hands to collectors willing to hold.  Nice historical data on this thread. I learned a little more on US and Chinese history.    :thumbup1:

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 09:41:01 PM »
Clark Smith's pagoda set sold quick........

Offline badon

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 11:08:18 PM »
I didn't do it, I swear.

Offline mcc168

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 12:06:17 AM »
Clark Smith's pagoda set sold quick........
Because he priced toooo looowwww.

Offline Panda Express

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 03:58:57 AM »
The buyer of the Pagoda Medals was at the right place at the right time.  "Blue Light Special".  There's always a flip-side of the coin to everything....don't you think!

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 09:49:44 AM »
$3800 for a set of pagodas that sold for $25,000 (all PF 69)?  Clark's set had (3) PF 69 & (1) PF 68, I think.  The world is buying precious metals.  Buyers are coming into the Chinese coin market.  Supply will drop and the price of the pagoda sets will head back to $20,000+.  What a great investment for $3800...........

Offline KonaJim

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 12:50:12 PM »
When the price of something drops precipitously there is a reason.  When a stock tanks to this degree there is a huge underlying problem, accounting, inventory, sales, or fraud to name a few.  The Pagoda sets have an issue.  There are too many savvy collectors for prices to make huge swings without reason.  One day we might find out.  My guess is the supply is much greater than suspected.

Underbidder

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 02:04:07 PM »
Bingo.


Agreed.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1984 Pagoda's
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2012, 02:24:17 PM »
Perhaps because medals are not collected as much?  They are not considered legal tenders and probably can be forged with impunity.  Definitely want them certified before buying.