Author Topic: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993  (Read 103382 times)

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Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #135 on: December 07, 2011, 01:46:20 PM »
I was thinking, maybe we could somehow post a collection of the obverse of all coins for each year on the type main page... that way one can see all subtypes for the year. Otherwise the page dosent really offer much information value...

I agree! In fact, I agree so much that that is EXACTLY what I have been working on for the last few days. It works for types and sightings, so once I fix a few annoying bugs, I can make it work for images too. Types will then show images from all subtypes and all specimens. I can make it show sighting images too, but I don't think that will be as useful. MAYBE in the sightings section, I can try it to see if it provides useful info or not.

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2011, 01:48:02 PM »
Oh... and I got my little baby today  :001_wub:

I think I am converted.... coins in slabs (at least the NGS ones) are actually quite nice. They display the coin great, and just "feels right"...

I would not be surprised if SANDAC came up with 6-7 varities of this one too  :laugh:   (1988 Li Quing Zhao, PFUC 69)

I switched around the main images for the specimen to show the slabs instead of the closeups, and I added the closeups as main images to the type (CCT324) for the specimen (CC51). They are gorgeous photos you made, and the coin does look very nice.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #137 on: December 07, 2011, 01:48:20 PM »
I would simply suggest that you "export" the main photos from each subtype and gave them a "box" each, neaxt to eatchother on the maintype page....

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2011, 01:49:48 PM »
I will see if I can do that now, and then I'll get back to fixing bugs after that.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2011, 01:54:57 PM »
I tried to cross off the box for "this is the main photo" under specimen when I uploaded the slab images... but it came under the image gallery.

I have noticed that in order to become the main photo one must click the slab front / slab back - upload photo link.

So I am not sure what the "main" check box when uploading photos (at any level) really are good for. If you upload under image gallery it will appear there anyhow, and not as the main photo. This also goes for subtypes as far as I know.

At specimen level this will not be a problem, since only one photo will ever depict that excact specimen; that is: UNTIL IT CHANGES OWNER and he/she might want to change the specimen's main photo of one of his/hers own.

Greater challenges at subtype level: Here you can imagine that more people want there specimen to be the "main" photo for the subtype.

What are the rules of the game? "First come first", or; "last changer/uploader wins".... the ideal situation had been that the compendium would automatically at subtype level choose the image with the highest grade and the newest uploaded. With grade having priority. This way people are given a "bonus" of having their specimen representing the subtype if they upload a photo of a high grade.

what do you think?

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2011, 02:11:54 PM »
Hmm, that's a good observation. The form is not at all clear about exactly what those checkboxes do. That's partly because they don't do anything by themselves, they just mark an image, so other parts of the site can find them and choose which image to display. For example, "main" slab front and slab back images are shown on specimen pages, because it makes it easy to verify the certification number. The "main" obverse and reverse images are shown on type pages IF the image is added to a type page.

Now that I think about it, I think that was supposed to be done automatically when you added images to your specimen. The system I've been working on will fix that.

The "rules" are to show the best image. Right now there's not a lot of images, but once there are, people who are bored can scrutinize each image to find the nicest one. It's not very important, since the images are shown so small, but choosing the best images will be helpful for people who want to click on the image and look at details.

I haven't finished the inventory system yet, even though it does sort of work a little without doing much that's interesting. The inventory system will deal with the question of who owns a coin. It will be possible for more than one person to claim ownership, since sometimes many people own a single very expensive coin.

Also, sometimes someone will claim ownership, but then their coins get sold without them updating their ownership claim. When that happens, the system should be able to pick a single owner based on who most recently claimed ownership, and if that doesn't work, an administrator (me) will be able to update it.

I very much like the idea of having the system automatically choose a coin with the highest grade to represent a type. The system is blind though, so it can't tell if the photo is good quality or not. A lower grade specimen may have a better photo on the system, so it's important to still allow people to manually select the "main" image. But, if no "main" image has been manually selected, it will be easy for me to make the system automatically choose the most recent, highest grade specimen to show, as long as the "obverse" and "reverse" or "slab front" and "slab back" are selected correctly.

Doing that automatically by default will be one less thing people will have to think about, so I like your idea because it will make the site more user friendly. Once that system is working, I can put better explanations of what each form feature does, and also note which ones people can ignore if they don't understand them. Thanks for such a great idea! It will be a good test of the image handling system once it's ready. I'll set up the image system, and then fix the bugs I was working on, and then add the automatic image features.

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2011, 02:14:03 PM »
One more thing, I can automatically generate lists of images that don't have obverse and reverse specified. I can generate all kinds of lists of things that have something that needs to be done to them. It will make it quick and easy for people who know the system best to go in and fix stuff, to ensure that the CC gives accurate research data. I'll make it as quick and easy as possible.

It's a lot of work to make things so easy, but I only have to do it once, and then you can do it 1000 times :)

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2011, 02:18:11 PM »
looking forward.... to make the system able to pick the right photo for the main photo for subtype, one could simply make boxes under uploading photos that checks: graded/slabbed or not, and enter grade, much like what one does when one creates specimens...

regardless: at type level, assuming there are subtypes, a single main picture makes no sense. Onw would like to have a gallery that shows one (preferably the best ones) subtype of each type for the type's main page....

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2011, 02:21:35 PM »
but I am a computer imbesile :)... I can work with statistical software (SPSS, Eviews etc) but I have no chance in H*** to do the kind of "programming" you and SANDAC are up to.... I'll have a beer and wait and see what you come up with for the type page image idea....

main message: at type level, one picture of the obverse of each subtype should be shown in the gallery, it should be automatically generated, even if that means that in the event no main photo of the subtype yet exist, there would be a "blank" image-square there.... (to be filled in by motivated data gatherers! :) )

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #144 on: December 07, 2011, 02:46:07 PM »
might I suggest you create a separate type for CCT12 World Historical Figueres?
This is a complete different series, and it also creates problems later when the pages that describes types, aubtypes and spceimens are likely to take a more specific form than the standard shape they have today..

also CCT12 is a series that justifies its own type, there is no point in making "historical figueres" a type, and then adding the complexcity of dividing it into two subtype: Chinese HF and World HF.

I suggest: move C10 Chinese Historical Figueres to front page and C12 World Historical figueres to the front page, especially now, that you have put all the coins under the "supertype" CCT405

these are two completely different series.... they only happen to have the same "theme".... it will also encourage people to make some contributions to the world HF.... myself for instance are not a stranger of starting to collect these... or you can recruit a new test-pilot for the series... now its been "hidden" under the chinese HF series' attention....

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2011, 03:09:50 PM »
I think of them as the same series, in two parts. They're frequently described the same too. Putting them together under the same hierarchy makes it easy for someone to keep track of both of them at the same time. It will be handy to gauge the overall interest in the entire series. Of course, since the Coin Compendium can handle any organization method, including more than one simultaneously, I think what you really want is for me to just make them both visible on the main page. I just did that - take a look and tell me what you think.

We can change the current organization if we decide it needs to be changed. Right now, I think putting them together makes sense for people who are interested in both series.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #146 on: December 07, 2011, 03:10:59 PM »

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2011, 03:13:19 PM »
they have different: size, purity, start year and ending year.... in addition they cover totally different persons... Mozart...!

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2011, 03:15:30 PM »
but I prefer the new start page.... but then you will have to, in order to be consistent, divide all sorts of coins into the same "supertype".... "animals", "sports", "buildings" etc etc etc... my argument is also that the two series might have a completely different audience of collectors...

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2011, 03:37:52 PM »
they have different: size, purity, start year and ending year.... in addition they cover totally different persons... Mozart...!

Yes, but they're still historical figures. That's the only thing the two types need to have in common to be placed together. It's sort of like putting all the silver coins under a silver type. All they need to have in common is that they're silver.

Of course, I COULD just take off CCT407 from the main page, so it is sort of "hidden".

If I get rid of CCT407 completely, then it will be impossible for anyone to look at data from both types simultaneously. Notice that the pandas can be sorted by size, by metal, and by year (no one has done the sorting yet, but all the types are there for it). There's even a type for fakes! CCT29 is a fake 1995 1 oz silver panda that's is also under other types too.

Once we have more data to sort through, you will see that providing many different (sensible) ways to sort it is very helpful. CCT407 isn't an announcement that world historical figures and chinese historical figures are the same series - instead, it's just a way to gather data on both types into one place.

Maybe SANDAC will wander over here and tell us what he thinks too.

but I prefer the new start page.... but then you will have to, in order to be consistent, divide all sorts of coins into the same "supertype".... "animals", "sports", "buildings" etc etc etc... my argument is also that the two series might have a completely different audience of collectors...

Yes, to be consistent, it would be a lot of work to sort all of the types that way, but you won't need to do that to coin specimens, sightings, and images, since I am now setting up the CC to do it automatically for you so you only need to put:

* 1 type for specimens
* 1 type and/or 1 specimen for sightings
* 1 type and/or 1 specimen and/or 1 sighting for images.

From there, the system will sort things automatically. So, it's not as much work as it sounds like it's going to be (I'm doing all the work to make things automatic).

For example, if someone wants to find out if non-lunar coins with horses on them behave the same or differently in the market during Chinese Year of the Horse than true "lunar" horses, making a type called "Coins with horses on them", and then adding all the types with horses on them, like for example:

CCT296 1984 22 g silver Chinese historical figures soldier with horse

to that horse category will allow them to get all the data about horse coins in one place where it can be analyzed, charted, and then compared with the true lunar horse category. We may find out that ALL horses react the same, or we may find out they're different. We may get a surprise and find out that the largest percentage price gains are in non-lunar horses!

By the way, that's why I'm buying non-lunar dragons right now, in advance of 2012 year of the dragon. I suspect the largest percentage gains will be in non-lunar dragons, since true lunar dragons start out so expensive. But, I don't have a chart to prove that yet, and the CC will give me the data and tools to do it. Amazing, I know!

But, the thought has crossed my mind that maybe there should be a "primary" supertype for each type. That way, the system could generate that main page hierarchy automatically. Instead of putting both world and Chinese historical figures under "CCT11: Historical figures", their "primary type" might be "CCT405: Modern Chinese coins 1979 to today". I could set it up so that the primary type is just the first type in the comma-separated type list, so it would be straightforward to do right now, just to add that feature.

I'm not sure what I would use that for, though, so I haven't done it.