Author Topic: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion  (Read 17347 times)

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Offline exchange

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Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« on: November 16, 2011, 06:04:58 PM »
Gross Debt to GDP ratio will be 100% any hour.
These are the reported numbers, however we know better.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


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Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 06:47:57 PM »
$15,000,000,000,000.00

Wow.  Just look at it.

Hey, it is only 850,822,461 ounces of gold.

Offline badon

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 01:36:04 AM »
The huge difference between the official and actual unemployment is both sad and hilarious. Murderers and thieves - liars - murderers and thieves.

Underbidder

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 01:41:31 AM »
$15,000,000,000,000.00

Wow.  Just look at it.

Hey, it is only 850,822,461 ounces of gold.

Visualize it soon enough..., being only ONE oz of gold!   :w00t:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 01:51:07 AM by Underbidder »

Offline Pandad

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 02:02:16 AM »
I knew if our elected officials tried hard enough we could achieve this monumental figure. 

How many sheets of paper do we need to print to pay this off???

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 07:33:17 AM »
I knew if our elected officials tried hard enough we could achieve this monumental figure. 

How many sheets of paper do we need to print to pay this off???

No need.  Just press a few buttons on the computer and volia!

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 09:59:22 AM »
Debt to GDP ratio is now over 101%.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The global debt clock.
Look at the countries marked in red, no surprise there.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock


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Offline Honus

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 11:29:27 AM »
The huge difference between the official and actual unemployment is both sad and hilarious. Murderers and thieves - liars - murderers and thieves.

You're so right Badon, I bang this drum too often with clients in conversations revolving around the state of the economy.  The government's unemployment numbers do not count people who are underemployed (white collar workers doing part-time cashier jobs in convenience stores, just as an example), they don't count people who have maximized their unemployment benefits and are no longer receiving assistance checks, and they don't count people who've temporarily stopped looking for a job (maybe due to health reasons, lack of prospects, etc.) or who have moved back in with family and are being otherwise supported.  Add all these people back into the equation, and the unemployment number goes from the 9% range to somewhere between 15.5-16.5%.  That's a staggering number by any standard.
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline dobedo

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 11:55:52 AM »
You're so right Badon, I bang this drum too often with clients in conversations revolving around the state of the economy.  The government's unemployment numbers do not count people who are underemployed (white collar workers doing part-time cashier jobs in convenience stores, just as an example), they don't count people who have maximized their unemployment benefits and are no longer receiving assistance checks, and they don't count people who've temporarily stopped looking for a job (maybe due to health reasons, lack of prospects, etc.) or who have moved back in with family and are being otherwise supported.  Add all these people back into the equation, and the unemployment number goes from the 9% range to somewhere between 15.5-16.5%.  That's a staggering number by any standard.
Please help me understand this. If ALL US people were unemployed long enough to not receive umemployment benefits, the unemployment rate would become 0%. Is that correct?

Offline Honus

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 12:04:28 PM »
Please help me understand this. If ALL US people were unemployed long enough to not receive umemployment benefits, the unemployment rate would become 0%. Is that correct?

The US government does not include such people in their calculation.  So if you've been unemployed for a long period of time, filed unemployment, and are still unemployed when the benefits run out, you drop out of the government's unemployment calculation.  You're still unemployed, but you're not included in the figure.   So, technically, I guess you're correct...if we all lost our jobs and we all got benefits, the unemployment rate would be 100%.   As soon as the benefit period ran out, and we were still unemployed, the government would stop counting us and the unemployment rate would drop to 0% by their method.
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 10:07:25 AM »
Debt to GDP ratio is now over 102%.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
$15,324,XXX,XXX,XXX


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Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 10:34:22 AM »
Everyone is talking about Europe, in particular Italy and Spain. Spain? Their debt to GDP ratio is much lower than the US! It is really amazing to watch the media such as CNBC bash Europe when all they need is a mirror to really know which country is in real trouble.

How ironic, the United States is in the same class ratio as Greece, Italy, and Japan at 100%+

Gross debt as percentage of GDP 2011

Austria    82%
France       87%
Germany    85%
Russia       9%
Greece       130%
Ireland    93%
Italy       119%
Japan       204%
Netherlands    82%
Portugal    97%
Spain       74%
United Kingdom    94%
United States    100%
Asia       41%
Central Europe  29%
Latin America    35%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

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Offline Pandana

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, 02:57:34 PM »
Hope the curve will come up...

Thought this is appropriate under the topic


Offline Pandana

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 03:09:24 PM »
It's reasonable to extrapolate from the curve above.  With an increment of approx 1.4 Tril dollars in debt added every year ... just extend the curve out; one can pretty much determine the price of gold in the future

Have fun

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, 03:19:00 PM »
Very nice:

Offline BChung

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 02:55:41 AM »
Can all of you got out and Vote for RON PAUL PLEASE?????

I can't believe what I am seeing Santorum winning Minnesota by such a large percentage. I can't believe that there are still so much useful idiots out there that will vote because of Anti Gay Marriage, Anti Abortion rights..etc.... are you kidding me????? Your country is in TRILLIONS OF DEBT, even if you stop now your grandkids may still have to bear your generations stupidity and so many morons care only about is gay rights and abortions? Ron Paul is the only person in this world right now that can proof that democracy is workable even after failing numerous of times.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2012, 03:15:38 AM »
Can all of you got out and Vote for RON PAUL PLEASE?????

I can't believe what I am seeing Santorum winning Minnesota by such a large percentage. I can't believe that there are still so much useful idiots out there that will vote because of Anti Gay Marriage, Anti Abortion rights..etc.... are you kidding me????? Your country is in TRILLIONS OF DEBT, even if you stop now your grandkids may still have to bear your generations stupidity and so many morons care only about is gay rights and abortions? Ron Paul is the only person in this world right now that can proof that democracy is workable even after failing numerous of times.

If one wants to vote for Ron Paul one must change their status to Republican first.  The more and more I read and learn about,"votergate" the more and more I realize things will not change, until peoples lives get uprooted and forever changed unwillingly for better or worst.  I lost total trust and confidence in the State to ultimately do the right thing by putting country/people first above anything else.  Ron Paul is one of the few shining beacon of common sense, integrity, intelligence, and imagination necessary to pull people around the world together against international bankster controlled tools.

Offline BChung

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 05:24:51 AM »
If Ron Paul Fails again or least get nominated to run, its going to be another shining example on why democracy doesn't work, because the people is not responsible & ultimately they will give all their rights back to the oppressor to continue.....Its just a matter of time.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 05:41:46 AM »
If Ron Paul Fails again or least get nominated to run, its going to be another shining example on why democracy doesn't work, because the people is not responsible & ultimately they will give all their rights back to the oppressor to continue.....Its just a matter of time.

Very true.  IMHO our country was never meant to be a Democracy since 51% of the majority can tell the rest FU via fines/imprisonment. Yes, even at gun point Democracy morphs to will take away from the productive and give to the non-productive. In a, "Republic from which it stands", perspective everyone's individual liberty will be respected no matter what. This notion of a Republic will ultimately lead to more peace and prosperity for all and not Socialism says RP.  I fear this will not happen in our lifetime as has other generations past but we all will experience a paradigm shift moving forward with some regions such as Japan, ME, US, China, Russia, Syria, and finally Iran feeling shock-wave in instability but no earth killing event similar to how some people make 2012 out to be.  Anyhow, just might thought. 

Offline Honus

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2012, 05:46:24 AM »
If you guys want to take this forum political and rant and rave, I'll ask you kindly to refrain from referring to people who disagree with you as "morons" and "idiots".  Just because someone bases their political vote on platforms that revolve around personal liberties, rather than fiscal philosophies, doesn't make them an idiot or a moron. 
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline BChung

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2012, 06:39:26 AM »
my apologies

Offline Pandana

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2012, 10:19:27 AM »
Let's get back to the task at hand - WEALTH PRESERVATION

 http://
www.forbes.com/sites/charleskadlec/2012/02/06/the-federal-reserves-explicit-goal-devalue-the-dollar-33/print/

The Federal Reserve's Explicit Goal: Devalue The Dollar 33%

" The Federal Reserve Open Market Committee (FOMC) has made it official:  After its latest two day meeting, it announced its goal to devalue the dollar by 33% over the next 20 years.  The debauch of the dollar will be even greater if the Fed exceeds its goal of a 2 percent per year increase in the price level...."

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2012, 03:35:57 PM »
Devaluation of the US dollar should increase the value of the Chinese Yuan worldwide.  That should increase the value of our Chinese coins and give collectors more buying power.  Lets hope dollar devaluation does not get out of hand w/ all participants running for the dollar exit............

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 04:12:56 PM »
Debt to GDP ratio is now over 102%.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
$15,324,XXX,XXX,XXX


exchange


Debt to GDP ratio is now over 103%.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
$15,540,XXX,XXX,XXX


exchange

Offline dragonfan

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2012, 08:46:18 PM »
Chinese will make their own decision in their best interest in the future as the the US always did in the past.. This will help Chinese culture promoters and Chinese business style entrepreneur.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2012, 03:05:03 AM »
Everyone is talking about Europe, in particular Italy and Spain. Spain? Their debt to GDP ratio is much lower than the US! It is really amazing to watch the media such as CNBC bash Europe when all they need is a mirror to really know which country is in real trouble.

Very true, however the media does not want the American people and the world to pay much attention to it while government spending keeps growing. The big guys don't want to stop the party. This why I believe Europe is in focus, a possible war with Iran, Koni 2012, etc.
These are all distraction tactics trying to keep the public's eye away from the in-house problems. They simply want everybody to believe that there so are many problems in this world, everywhere but America. 

I wonder how long this will last before the American people will wake up.

Offline ghostrider80811

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2012, 03:17:02 AM »
Very true, however the media does not want the American people and the world to pay much attention to it while government spending keeps growing. The big guys don't want to stop the party. This why I believe Europe is in focus, a possible war with Iran, Koni 2012, etc.
These are all distraction tactics trying to keep the public's eye away from the in-house problems. They simply want everybody to believe that there so are many problems in this world, everywhere but America. 

I wonder how long this will last before the American people will wake up.

They can keep this game going longer then you and I can stay solvent or something like that...

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2012, 11:51:03 AM »
An interesting feature that seems to have been added recently.
At the current rate, this is what the US debt will look like in 2016, just four years away. It does not take into account any recessions we may have a long the way.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html
$21.5T National debt and a debt to gdp ratio of 127%.

I wonder what the gold and silver price will be....


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Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 12:58:33 PM »
Debt to GDP ratio is now over 103%.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
$15,540,XXX,XXX,XXX
exchange

Debt to GDP ratio is now over 104%.
$15,880,XXX,XXX,XXX

We will have more important things to worry than overpaying for out CMC.

exchange

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $16 Trillion
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 10:43:15 AM »
National Debt is now $16 Trillion

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


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Offline dynamike51

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 11:34:44 AM »
Debt to GDP ratio is now over 104%.
$15,880,XXX,XXX,XXX

We will have more important things to worry than overpaying for out CMC.

exchange


It's our children who will be burdened with paying the debt - we will be long gone!

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 12:23:40 PM »
$15,000,000,000,000.00

Wow.  Just look at it.

Hey, it is only 850,822,461 ounces of gold.

Less than a year to add $1,000,000,000,000.00 in debt.

That's a Wow of the day...

Underbidder

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 01:34:18 PM »
It's our children who will be burdened with paying the debt - we will be long gone!

That is a fallacy- Only when it dawns on the masses that is incorrect, and "we" are all adversely affected by loss of purchasing power here and now and during our lives through inflation,  will the population push for changes. 

We have proven that "we" are perfectly willing to accept mortgaging "our children's" future if we think we can get ours, now.
But its an illusion. We are all, now, victims of this crazy Ponzi scheme.


Offline aragog

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 03:02:00 PM »
That is a fallacy- Only when it dawns on the masses that is incorrect, and "we" are all adversely affected by loss of purchasing power here and now and during our lives through inflation,  will the population push for changes. 

We have proven that "we" are perfectly willing to accept mortgaging "our children's" future if we think we can get ours, now.
But its an illusion. We are all, now, victims of this crazy Ponzi scheme.


What can be done by individuals, as their total debt seems to be just a little lower 15,77 trl

Offline dobedo

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 04:05:44 PM »
I'm confused. So, are we better off today than, say, 4 years ago?

Underbidder

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 04:14:29 PM »
The madness won't stop. We ain't seen nothin' yet .  What's after a "trillion"? Quadrillion? Get used to it.

Those who are already in power love to keep the Ponzi scheme going, since it is the root of their power source- confiscating and giving other peoples' property away, in exchange for votes.

The best interview I've seen in a while: A Billionaire’s Bet on Inflation – Frank Giustra Long Form Interview – Video
http://ceo.ca/frank-giustra-long-form-interview/

The cut-backs required to balance the system and make it solvent,  are labelled "Draconian" by those who want to keep it going. And they are correct: rioting would occur if entitlement programs are cut back significantly. The tipping point has been passed.
Living beyond one's means, on a near global scale, requires more and more dilution of money in order to deal with the debt, hence all become poorer except for the administrators who get their cut first. The majority does't understand the full harmful effects of the term "inflation" , but they may if its called "dilution". You've already lost about half of your purchasing power since 2001 from this money dilution, so it's not just a matter of our children paying for our debt.  We are paying the hidden price, now, and have been.  Wake up. Get angry.

What can individuals do? I think it's past the point of realistic change now for the system as a whole. But spreading awareness and educating everyone's circle is paramont in moving forward towards stabilizing matters to slow down the collapse.  Support "candidates for a slower collapse!"  Any honest political party would advertise that. Maybe a new third party- Good luck with that.

Privately, finding ways of securing any savings is key.  Giustra is right to a point - better bet on inflation, but dont stop there depending on it. Daniel Amerman provides scary analysis of how phantom high gains resulting from dilution can result in robbery through taxation of all these phoney gains and then some.  You'd guess that if gold went to $50,000 an ounce holders would be sitting pretty, right?  but actually the double whammy of taxation and loss of purchasing ower would leave holders poorer than prior,  if there was no dilution. The admininstrators will rob us of any gains, if only to keep the misery spread out, to show their constituants they are socking it to the "rich speculators."
If they can measure it, they will steal it.  Gains from sales of bullion and precious coins, collectibles etc will be highly penalized through this double whammy.  Theoretically, the administrators could balance everything and make it workable by allowing the most obvious asset, gold, to be revalued at many many multiples of current valuations.  But do you think for a second they will allow private citizens to keep the phantom resultant windfall? No-way, Joe-SAY!
Black markets will exist you say? Yes and people will be imprisoned. But not the top thieves.  Finding ways of hiding real assets, preferably producing ones, will be key.

Oh, and despite some  critiques, predictions of disease epidemics from system stress and have both historical support and merit beyond the Tin Foil Hat crowd. See the big trends and start implementing solutions before you find yourself too adversely affected. Remember- Noah didn't wait to feel the first raindrops before starting to build his Ark-







Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 05:48:12 PM »

The best interview I've seen in a while: A Billionaire’s Bet on Inflation – Frank Giustra Long Form Interview – Video
http://ceo.ca/frank-giustra-long-form-interview/

Thanks for sharing that link.  Interesting interview.  Sharp guy.

Underbidder

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2012, 06:12:29 PM »
Yes. Sharp guy.

But the shocker wake-up call is to all of those who hold gold and precious metals thinking they'll "make out" or even stay even during inflation.
Here's the link to the Amerman analysis, showing a decrease in wealth of 50% even to gold holders in the event gold goes to much higher levels.
Its all lost in taxes and hidden loss of purchasing power, which is usually overlooked by most.  Think dilution.

Under the scenario where gold goes up to $5,000 an ounce, to even $100,000 an ounce, a gold bullion holder experiences a NET DECREASE in wealth  (purchasing power ) of 40-50%, and that is assuming taxes are left at a reasonable 50%, but which you know they'll jack up to a much higher "Windfall Speculation" tax of 60-90% on gains, so figure on more like nearly all savings value would be lost.

Wrap your minds around THAT.

The answer is : to get it out of The System.  It can still be done now, but at a cost of quite a bit of time and effort and the door is closing fast.


http://danielamerman.com/articles/GoldTaxes1.htm


PS-  not to be taken as a plug for Amerman or his For-pay program.  I'd recommend other ways actually. Be creative, in the field you already know.












« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:30:26 PM by Underbidder »

Offline mook

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2012, 10:15:28 PM »
Thanks Underbidder,

Very interesting :thumbup1:

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $16 Trillion plus
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2012, 04:39:22 PM »
Gross Debt to GDP ratio is now 105%.
US National Debt: $16,205,XXX,XXX,XXX

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


exchange

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 11:36:02 PM »
US Debt - Visualized in physical $100 bills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTBODoBaCns&feature=player_embedded

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2013, 05:42:46 PM »
Gross Debt to GDP ratio is now 105%.
US National Debt: $16,205,XXX,XXX,XXX

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


exchange

Now > $16,500,000,000,000.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Offline exchange

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now almost $17 Trillion
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2013, 08:26:19 AM »
Now > $16,500,000,000,000.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

So lets see, in little over two months the Debt to GDP ratio went from 105% to 107%, and shortly will be at  $17,000,000,000,000.00 in debt. While at the same time gold drops from something like $1650 to below $1400.....

exchange

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 06:39:07 PM »
I think the US National Debt crossed $17,000,000,000,000.00 this morning?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Offline NBM

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 07:03:31 PM »

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2013, 09:46:09 PM »
Will rare US coins hold their value?   With a $17 trillion dollar debt and growing, this is making the dollar unwanted worldwide.  If the US dollar is losing its value will that hurt the US rare coin market?  I don't know.  As the Chinese accumulate gold to back the Yuan, will that make MCC more valuable?.........

Offline pandamonium

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Offline davidt3251

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2013, 12:46:30 AM »
So lets see, in little over two months the Debt to GDP ratio went from 105% to 107%, and shortly will be at  $17,000,000,000,000.00 in debt. While at the same time gold drops from something like $1650 to below $1400.....

exchange


Gold is hard to store, and with confiscation of gold on people's mnind in the wake of Cyprus bank bailins, T-Bill volatility around the debt ceiling, Poland pension debt bailins, and Chase wire controls, its obvious that the only place 'they' want us to put our money is in the stock market. At this point its a 'hold your nose and buy' trade. One day it will fall apart but not yet apparently.

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
The US debt increased by $328,000,000,000.00 in ONE DAY on Thursday.

"U.S. debt jumps a record $328 billion — tops $17 trillion for first time"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/18/us-debt-jumps-400-billion-tops-17-trillion-first-t/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS


Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2014, 06:15:32 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/10/usa-fed-earnings-idUSL2N0KK18F20140110

The Federal Reserve now holds $2,200,000,000,000.00 in US Treasury debt, which is 12.7% of the US Federal Government's $17.3 trillion dollar debt....I knew the US Fed was printing money to buy some US debt, but that is a huge (and growing) portion.  This increasingly strikes me as unsustainable, smoke-and-mirrors shuffling of finances. 

I feel good owning some gold pandas.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2014, 06:51:49 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/10/usa-fed-earnings-idUSL2N0KK18F20140110

 This increasingly strikes me as unsustainable, smoke-and-mirrors shuffling of finances.  


It's beginning to look as if they can keep the smoke-and-mirrors, or Three Card Monte/ Shell Game shuffling, going much longer than we thought.  What keeps that 12.7% from going to 20, 30, 70 or all?
After all, they can just keep conjuring FDRs (aka printing) ie keep bringing in new peas or new cards into the deck. As long as they force use of US  "Dollar" Federal Reserve Notes by the barrel of a gun (literally) for both domestic tax payment and foreign oil payment, and importantly THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE, this can go on indefinitely.  They have already (shall we say discouraged?) alternative payment systems via knocking down Liberty Dollars and now its looks like they'll limit Bitcoins and knock them down too as an alternate currency.  Like its joked: Why does rhe government imprison counterfeitors? 'Cuz they hate the competition!
Foreign currencies? give me a break - they won't allow that.
Can even precious metals hold up under such tyrany?  We'll see when we see what's left after new higher taxes. Black market? That door is closing.  Electronic surveillance of all financial transactions will insure interpretation of gains in their favor. How about 95% tax on gain, and they define gains?  The Controllers will change the laws of the game in their favor.  They will have the game rigged, and other "players" will likely be unkowing accomplices, like in any Con game. Try to move it out of the country, like the stories we hear about refugees from Europe and Vietnam
taking their wealth out in gold and diamonds sewn in the linings of their coats?  Forget about it now with TSA and
freight scanners.  Middlemen? Not in a small world, they'd likely take your stash, then rat you out.

I like my pandas but more and more am looking for a solution that holds earning power that cant be taxed away. Those are fewer and fewer and maybe the door will soon close or has closed already to "none".

1984 is here.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2014, 06:56:39 PM »
I like my pandas but more and more am looking for a solution that holds earning power that cant be taxed away.

What currently fits that description in your mind?

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2014, 07:09:32 PM »
Too few situations that few, if any, would tolerate. Would you still feel you had any Liberty left, at 60% taxes? 70? 80? 90? Or feel like a slave/ prisoner?

Own a home in a state or county without property taxes, but they would probably change that and impose new taxes.

Live in an RV?  No, there would be licensing, registration fees, gas taxes,  in short they would own you.

Grow your own food ?, but be ready for them to outlaw that too (for "health reasons" ya see). No backyard chickens, no gardens, no no no..      ..its happening.

Have a skill that's barterable ? but then expect to be ratted out, audited, threatened by imprisonment if you dont convert those bartered eggs into equivalent value FRNs and pay what they say.

More and more will find living on the dole, or imprisoned, as the better alternative. The US is well on the way. Imagine
80% of the population that way, 50% unemployed and the majority of the rest working for the government in the security, welfare, or prison business. Just need to keep the printing machine on 24/7 and a growing military and a growing police and TSA force to keep it all going...and throw the Constitution away as "they" have directed the courts to ignore it. The top "elected" (?) officials find it inconvenient to their plans so they tell us its meant to be a "living document" and changed/ "modernized" to fit their agenda, (not ours)

Thinking of an acquaintance who was "off the grid" : single contractor working for cash. Owned (by) no home. Slept in car, showered in city parks. He felt he was a free man.  He got older and tired. Now he's owned by a home, taxes taken from him. He feels he's a slave. He's done.

Petty criminals have the odds in their favor: if they dont get caught, they get by ok. If they do get caught, they more often get released.. When they get caught enough times, for a while they have a decent state-funded rest with TV, sports, solid food, comfortable living arrangements, in short a brief hotel stay. Sounds better and better to more and more.

We are already here - nobody notices the fences yet that's all (below)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 07:39:48 PM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline GDG's

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2014, 08:00:21 PM »
One nuclear event, emp pulse, fried electronic grid, and presto living like they did 200 years ago without the know how to survive. BUT, new currency and no more debt. Of course the population would be shrunk a good 75%+. Perhaps it's time to take those sailing lessons and buy that big sailboat.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2014, 08:37:57 PM »
In such scenarios, anybody without a boat would be in for tough times, agreed.

And I also agree there would be a large loss of population and endless violence, as nobody has the skills anymore nor the resources to be self-sufficient. And even if you did, forget about the police being able to help you protect it. They cant even help protect you now, they just write reports after the crime has already happened.

Things have changed.  Even if there are no EMPs, nuclear events, or worldwide market crashes, the time where one could wait for things to "settle down" and walk in afterwards somewhere with a stack of gold to cash in at a good rate in a new currency may be prohibited by a malevolent restrictive  government.
They will ensure only govt cronies get out of it well.
Now there is getting to be really no way to protect, and nowhere to flee with one's stash.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2014, 09:22:30 PM »
Bullion will be released at some point and we will see the parabolic spike in price.   That cannot be stopped as China will soon control the bullion price not the West.   We should all be looking at homes overseas or the Southern Hemisphere.  Most countries will want a FBI report on each family member and do not forget your passport.   Food supplies too.  When bullion goes up so will MCC and the world will want payment in a gold backed Yuan not US dollar.   MCC are the best of Chinese money so we will have buying power.  Just take the necessary steps today.  For example i like Chile alot but it has 3 or 4 continental plate fault lines.   If we have the ability to buy and are willing to help the locals of our new country then we should do just fine as the rest of the population here will learn to deal w/ a impossible situation.......

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2014, 10:56:09 PM »
Since you like to think out future scenarios, you might want to think of alternative endings, other than the one you are expecting, to be prepared, ya know, "just in case".  ;)

TPTB, after all, can be expected, to do the unexpected.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2014, 07:36:23 AM »
Another milestone:  $18,000,000,000,000.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


Offline GDG's

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2014, 04:30:04 PM »
Another milestone:  $18,000,000,000,000.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


Check the unfunded liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and Medicare prescription drug program for the real shocker. Baby Boomers can kiss their SS bye bye.

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2015, 11:20:29 AM »
Just crossed $18,500,000,000,000.00.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

This thread was started almost exactly four years ago in November 2011.  The US debt has increased 3,500,000,000,000.00 since then.  And within the past week or so the US worked out the political details to raise the debt ceiling until 2017?

And while all this has happened the US dollar index has pushed higher and higher.  Fascinating how the higher our debt is the stronger our currency is, at least for the moment.




Offline SANDAC

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2015, 12:45:56 PM »
And while all this has happened the US dollar index has pushed higher and higher.  Fascinating how the higher our debt is the stronger our currency is, at least for the moment.

Such is the nature of a bubble.  When it is rising fast and faster, people would find reasons for its strength, why it is not a problem and buy into the bubble.  It is not sustainable, but you'll be amazed at how long this can run along.  Look at Japan, a walking zombie for a couple decades now and is still walking briskly with no end in sight.  The end will surely come and it will be unbelievably messy. 

Offline pjleung

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2015, 09:16:11 PM »
SANDAC you are right, we just kick the can down the road and our next generation will pick up the mess.

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $19 Trillion
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2016, 05:50:43 PM »
$15,000,000,000,000.00

$19,000,000,000,000.00

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2016, 06:23:13 PM »
BUY GOLD!!:)

Offline Grip

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2016, 06:51:02 PM »
Not to worry, it's all under control....

Offline pjleung

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2016, 10:10:48 PM »
do panic, it is out of control.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2016, 06:05:46 AM »
The principles of Economics 101 don't hold here!  N16 N17 N24 N35
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline dobedo

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2016, 10:16:13 PM »

The principles of Economics 101 don't hold here!  N16 N17 N24 N35
The principles of Politics -001 hold perfectly here!

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2016, 05:16:50 AM »
Gee I wonder how long the US Gov. can keep the music playing? 

Offline Birdman

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Re: Its official, National Debt is now $15 Trillion
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2017, 12:12:34 PM »
And now > $20,000,000,000,000.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/