Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 101736 times)

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Offline mcc168

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #255 on: September 07, 2018, 06:06:27 PM »
seeing many familiar faces and I fell buying activities are strong...

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #256 on: September 07, 2018, 10:51:56 PM »
Long beach show treasure found....
Nice find!

Offline mcc168

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #257 on: September 07, 2018, 10:57:42 PM »
Nice find!
I know you are an expert of Chinese medals. Can you tell me what TYPE this one is?  Are there any reliable references(version, mintage, etc.) for Great Wall Medals?

Thank you,

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #258 on: September 08, 2018, 12:43:53 AM »
I know you are an expert of Chinese medals. Can you tell me what TYPE this one is?  Are there any reliable references(version, mintage, etc.) for Great Wall Medals?

Thank you,
This is Type I, or Plum Flower Great Wall. I am not aware of any official references to the versions and mintage.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #259 on: September 08, 2018, 08:03:48 PM »
Long beach show treasure found....

Wow....every time I see one of the Type 1 or Type 2 Great Wall proof medals I am very excited...both versions such impressive medals.

What was the asking price? Did it sell? It looks to be in superior condition.

What is the name of the seller / dealer?

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #260 on: September 10, 2018, 05:00:21 PM »
What are the strange looking circles on the great wall side of the medal?  Is this some problem with the photography?  If so, why are there no circles shown on the picture of the other side of the medal?

Does this proof Great Wall medal have a number on the edge? 


Mark Bonke

Offline mcc168

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #261 on: September 10, 2018, 05:31:16 PM »
What are the strange looking circles on the great wall side of the medal?  Is this some problem with the photography?  If so, why are there no circles shown on the picture of the other side of the medal?

Does this proof Great Wall medal have a number on the edge? 


Mark Bonke

Hello Mark,

Not sure how and why these circles formed. They are on only one side but not on the other.  Since this piece was issued without a protective capsule, I guess the circles are caused by storage environment. From my experience, these can be easily removed by NCS professional Conservation.

No, there is no word or number on the edge.   

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #262 on: September 10, 2018, 07:56:23 PM »
Initially, I looked at the photos just at a glance and thought the circles were just some sort of image watermark.

But now that I am looking at the image for more than 2 seconds, I'm fairly certain I know exactly what caused those rings...bubble wrap.

The bubble wrap was probably used in order to help protect the medal from bouncing around inside the case during transit and maybe it was even left in there for a long period of time.

It's not recommended to used bubble wrap to store proof silver items for any extended period of time, especially if the area where the item will be stored will be hot. Many plastics degrade more quickly when they are exposed to high heat.

Bubble wrap is definitely the culprit of those rings if you want my opinion.

I suppose NCS can do a very good job of removing those rings....I suppose if they can't, no one that we can turn to (afford) can do it.


Offline mcc168

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #263 on: September 11, 2018, 12:52:05 AM »
Initially, I looked at the photos just at a glance and thought the circles were just some sort of image watermark.

But now that I am looking at the image for more than 2 seconds, I'm fairly certain I know exactly what caused those rings...bubble wrap.

The bubble wrap was probably used in order to help protect the medal from bouncing around inside the case during transit and maybe it was even left in there for a long period of time.

It's not recommended to used bubble wrap to store proof silver items for any extended period of time, especially if the area where the item will be stored will be hot. Many plastics degrade more quickly when they are exposed to high heat.

Bubble wrap is definitely the culprit of those rings if you want my opinion.

I suppose NCS can do a very good job of removing those rings....I suppose if they can't, no one that we can turn to (afford) can do it.



I agree with your analysis. This medal must have been stored with a bubble wrap on top by original owner for a very long time. Hopefully NCS can remove these residues from surface and save a piece of history.   

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #264 on: October 08, 2018, 10:27:20 PM »
Warning.  I purchased Lot #2420 at the Spink's auction in Hong Kong in August of 2018.  This lot included four medals, with a GBCA graded Great Wall silver medal (type 1)(satin finish)(68 grade).  I sent this medal to NCS and NGC for minimal conservation, authentication, grading and encapsulation.  Today, I received the results.  QUESTIONABLE AUTHENTICITY.  Ouch!  My money is lost.  I made a mistake.  I looked at it carefully during the preview in Hong Kong and still made a mistake.  Hopefully, you will learn from my warning and not make a similar mistake.

Mark Bonke

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #265 on: October 08, 2018, 11:12:26 PM »
Spinks should take it back, there is an implicit guaranty of authenticity.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #266 on: October 08, 2018, 11:22:48 PM »
Warning.  I purchased Lot #2420 at the Spink's auction in Hong Kong in August of 2018.  This lot included four medals, with a GBCA graded Great Wall silver medal (type 1)(satin finish)(68 grade).  I sent this medal to NCS and NGC for minimal conservation, authentication, grading and encapsulation.  Today, I received the results.  QUESTIONABLE AUTHENTICITY.  Ouch!  My money is lost.  I made a mistake.  I looked at it carefully during the preview in Hong Kong and still made a mistake.  Hopefully, you will learn from my warning and not make a similar mistake.

Mark Bonke


I'm really sorry to hear this. Can you post pics or NGC cert numbers so that we can all learn more about this?

Thank you.

Offline mcc168

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #267 on: October 09, 2018, 12:30:31 AM »
Warning.  I purchased Lot #2420 at the Spink's auction in Hong Kong in August of 2018.  This lot included four medals, with a GBCA graded Great Wall silver medal (type 1)(satin finish)(68 grade).  I sent this medal to NCS and NGC for minimal conservation, authentication, grading and encapsulation.  Today, I received the results.  QUESTIONABLE AUTHENTICITY.  Ouch!  My money is lost.  I made a mistake.  I looked at it carefully during the preview in Hong Kong and still made a mistake.  Hopefully, you will learn from my warning and not make a similar mistake.

Mark Bonke
Send it back to Spink's. They should take it back, there is an implicit guaranty of authenticity. +1

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #268 on: October 09, 2018, 12:10:07 PM »
Greetings

Thanks for your suggestions.

This morning, I reviewed the Terms and Conditions of the Spinks Auction which was held in Hong Kong on August 9, 2018.  Section 5.9 provides the rules for "Refund in the case of Forgery," including a requirement of written notice within 7 days of the auction and return of the item within 14 days of the auction in the same condition as of the auction date. 

Yesterday, I was informed of the problem when NGC completed its work.  I will receive my various submissions by mail next week.  I have missed the 7 day and 14 day requirements.  I will receive the item back in a "body bag" and not in the original GBCA holder.  Spinks will have disbursed funds to the consignor/seller long ago.

I will communicate with Kelvin Cheung, the auctioneer, and the Spinks office manager in Hong Kong about this disaster.  Will I receive a refund for this lot or this part of the lot?  I will let you know after my problem "plays out" and I know the answer.  Do not hold your breath, expecting a positive result.

Often, I have stressed the need for collectors and investors to preview lot items before the auction.  In this case, I traveled far, I held the GBCA holder in my hand and I looked at this medal as carefully as possible.  I already own two of these satin silver medals in NGC/PCGS holders and am very familiar with the design and overall look.  I could not test the weight.  I could not preview the edge (the third side of the medal).  I thought it was slightly toned on one side and I thought it was overgraded due to a couple of small marks on one side of the medal.  Otherwise, I thought it was authentic.  I was wrong.  My preview of this item failed. 

Please remember to be very, very careful when making buying decisions.  Then, once the decision to purchase is made,  submit your coins and medals to NGC for authentication (and grading). 

Be a better collector than I have been.  Learn from my mistakes to avoid your own mistakes.

Mark Bonke

Offline r3globe

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #269 on: October 09, 2018, 01:10:31 PM »
I am sorry to hear about your predicament. However, If it were me, I would be very firm with Spink's about the importance of buyer's confidence in dealing with a reputable auction house. I do believe they should refund you for it.

"Questionable authenticity" does not mean definitively that it is a fake. I am willing to bet that the same medal will grade as authentic if it is sent later to NGC or PCGS, especially if it is outside the GBCA holder. I am willing to speculate that the GBCA might have biased their judgement a little!