Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions

[mmissinglink]

fwang, your posts are always informative and thought provocing. Thank you for you valuable contribution to these discussions.

And yes, I agree, more owners should come forward so that more knowledge about the elusive Great Wall medallions can be known.

[mmissinglink]

Question to knowledgeable members:

Why is this Great Wall medal:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shanghai-Mint-1985-Great-Wall-of-China-Medal-/221373815363?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item338ae85a43

so much more expensive than this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shanghai-Mint-1987-Great-Wall-60mm-China-coin-Medal-/321315653499?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item4acfe7c77b

Aren't both medals copper composition? Isn't the more expensive one minted in much larger quantity than the less expensive one?

Please help me understand why such a big price difference.

Thank you.

[Kirin]

This seller acts on perceptions of value regarding the type 1 as being a premium image to collectors.  If you follow the string of sales over the years the Type 1 has always commanded a higher price then the Type 2 & Mr. Luckmoneyro is not oblivious to that fact.  The type 1 population had a very limited, possibly 10 to 20 medals minted, before the image was rejected & most left the mint unaccounted.  He's simply playing off the perceptions of those who find the type 1 version much more appealing as a collectable.
IMHO

[mmissinglink]

The type 1 is the 1985 medal? This one?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shanghai-Mint-1985-Great-Wall-of-China-Medal-/221373815363?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item338ae85a43

or the other one?

[fwang2450]

The mintage of the 1987 Bronze Great Wall is much bigger, at 48,300 pieces.

Plus the soft pouch of the 87 medal on the eBay listing is not right. The correct pouch is viewable here:http://www.997788.com/pr/detail_143_21483197.html. It is known that there are fakes of the 1987 bronze Great Wall. This eBay listing looks pretty suspicious. Look at the screen capture below.

[poconopenn]

The mintage of the 1987 Bronze Great Wall is much bigger, at 48,300 pieces.

Plus the soft pouch of the 87 medal on the eBay listing is not right. The correct pouch is viewable here:http://www.997788.com/pr/detail_143_21483197.html. It is known that there are fakes of the 1987 bronze Great Wall. This eBay listing looks pretty suspicious. Look at the screen capture below.

Yes, this eBay listed  bronze great wall medal is not genuine. The seller should know better, since he is a very knowledgeable expert in China Mint medals.

[fwang2450]

This listing of the 1987 Longevity has the same box and capsule as the retail box of the 87 Great Wall: http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1987-God-of-Longevity-/141204230520?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item20e06d9178. The toning looks similar, too.

[dc55232]

NGC specimens (with images only):

1982287-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;MEDAL PF 65 ULTRA CAMEO
3157481-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
3260210-007;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 66 ULTRA CAMEO
3300103-059;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 66
3306854-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;UNC Details
3307351-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 66
3324202-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 63 ULTRA CAMEO
3347564-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 64 ULTRA CAMEO
3357451-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 68
3357451-006;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 68
3402622-001;(1984) CHINA THE GREAT WALL ;MEDAL MS 64
3553424-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 67 ULTRA CAMEO
3612604-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
3684312-001;1984 CHINA THE GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
3692382-001;1984 CHINA THE GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;PF 63 ULTRA CAMEO
4153433-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 66 ULTRA CAMEO
4153438-002;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
2774666-004;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MS 66 BN
3563558-001;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MEDAL MS 66 BN
3563558-002;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MEDAL MS 69 BN
3688441-001;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MS 66 RB

Regards
dc55232

[fwang2450]

NGC specimens (with images only):

1982287-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;MEDAL PF 65 ULTRA CAMEO
3157481-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
3260210-007;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 66 ULTRA CAMEO
3300103-059;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 66
3306854-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;UNC Details
3307351-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 66
3324202-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 63 ULTRA CAMEO
3347564-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 64 ULTRA CAMEO
3357451-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 68
3357451-006;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 68
3402622-001;(1984) CHINA THE GREAT WALL ;MEDAL MS 64
3553424-005;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 67 ULTRA CAMEO
3612604-003;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
3684312-001;1984 CHINA THE GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
3692382-001;1984 CHINA THE GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;PF 63 ULTRA CAMEO
4153433-001;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL ;PF 66 ULTRA CAMEO
4153438-002;(1984) 3.3oz CHINA GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;MS 69
2774666-004;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MS 66 BN
3563558-001;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MEDAL MS 66 BN
3563558-002;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MEDAL MS 69 BN
3688441-001;1987 CHINA THE GREAT WALL W/ CLOUDS BRONZE - 60MM;MS 66 RB

Regards
dc55232

Thanks for the list.

[Kirin]

I had this one at one point, 3684312-001;1984 CHINA THE GREAT WALL SILVER - 60MM;PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
It was the highest of the type 2's, a beautiful medal, with very limited mintage.
There is a resurgence of these medals today, more so then in the past.  They seem to have
brought back the traditional myths so well ingrained in the Chinese culture.  One filled with intrigue &
colorful drama.  Thank you for the list as well.

[mmissinglink]

@ fwang,  Great work to put together that list!

@ kirin,  wow!...you owned what some consider the creme-de-la-creme of silver modern Chinese medals. Did you offer it at auction or as a private sale?

[mmissinglink]

I'm confused. I looked at these 2 coins 3324202-00, 3692382-001  and they are both authenticated as 1984 minting. Is that accurate? I thought they were minted and released for sale in different years. What am I misunderstanding about these 2 versions?

[Kirin]

It is a beauty, but have another.  I sold it private, but the buyer saw it on eBay some time ago.   I actually offered it here with no interest, possibly the price.  I have offered some very rare items here but my price line is "healthy" so I sense just too much money in this "buyers market", I am just trying to hold the line, but the forces of the over whelming market at large are all prevailing.  Also no one really knows me here.  I sold an absolutely beautiful, OMP - 1992 - Gem (& I mean GEM) Proof Panda gold set the other day, hated to part with it but it went to a very good friend collector. Anyway, I thank you for the reply & talk soon.
Regards

[Kirin]

Hi , as I said in one of my previous emails, this was a same year run (1984).  The TYPE 1 was ditched due to the rejection of the design, which I would say did not have a very large population, due to the design being unsuitable for some reason.  They then re-tooled with this second design TYPE 2 (3692382-001) & ran a population of this type.  Numbers??  it's anyone's considered guess, but very very low populations for either of the design TYPEs.  The eBay listing claimed 68 for a population of the TYPE 2 design, BUT I would honestly say far fewer then that.

[mmissinglink]

@ Kirin,   the medals/coins that you have sold are fantasy medals/coins to me...I could dream about them all day long and meanwhile you have already owned and sold them. Wow!

As for the Great Wall type 1 and type 2....I thought that they were released in different years....sorry I misunderstood that.

It was on one of these threads in this forum that someone (maybe KonaJim) was mentioning about the actual number of Great Wall medals that were released to the public and based on some figures that were mentioned, I believe that the number of "proof" finish silver Great Wall medals in the hands of the public may be about 24. That doesn't include matte silver Great Wall medals....there are probably more than 24 of that version released to the public.

I wonder how long it will take till the experts actually have a very good idea of how many really are out there.....5 years....25 years...more?