Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 101640 times)

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Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2012, 10:47:35 PM »
I picked it up on Zhaoonline for $3300 including buyer's premium. That was the opening price and my bid was the only one so clearly I overpaid for it. I really think that for its tiny mintage of 68 this medal should bring much higher prices. But apparently it is not as popular as other medals with much higher mintage figures. This is a long term hold for me so I really did not mind overpaying for it. In my opinion it has a lot of potential for a significant price increase in the coming years and that is why I purchased it and would have paid a lot more - tiny mintage, first big size silver medal and the first error medal. Let's see in 10 years.... time will tell.

At the end of the month I will visit Shanghai and will pick it up.

Based on conversations, I have a suspicion that there may be more than 68 total. Here are snapshots of the proof variety:




Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2012, 03:01:18 AM »
The great wall silver medal I purchased last May returned from NGC last week labeled as "authenticity questionable". The medal has been sent back to Zhaoonline along with the grader's report NGC provided. Zhaoonline took responsibility for their mistake and refunded the amount I paid including additional $205 for NCS, NGC evaluation and return shipping fees. So at the end no money was lost here.
I don't even want to think about a scenario of me keeping it raw only to find out 10 years later that it is fake and the $3300 I paid for it turned to $0.

Special thanks to poconopenn who helped me by emails inspecting this medal and pointing out the questionable authenticity issue before it was shipped to NGC. The guy really is the master of counterfeit detection. Thank you poconopenn  :thumbup:

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2012, 08:18:55 AM »

Special thanks to poconopenn who helped me by emails inspecting this medal and pointing out the questionable authenticity issue before it was shipped to NGC. The guy really is the master of counterfeit detection. Thank you poconopenn  :thumbup:

Poconopenn is a master of Chnese numismatics in general. This Forum is constantly enriched by his knowledge, and generosity.

Incidentally, the Great Wall Medal shown in my previous post came back fom NGC graded 67.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China PricepedIa
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2012, 09:00:17 AM »
Congrats Peter. One rare piece you have. I did not realize from your prevoius post that it is actually yours.

By the way,  has the new edition of your panda book has been released? I want to buy a copy.


Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2012, 02:28:37 PM »
Congrats Peter. One rare piece you have. I did not realize from your prevoius post that it is actually yours.

Unfortunately, it's not. It has a more interesting history than most, too. It was originally an official gift of the China Mint to a VIP at a conference. Then it sat untouched in a drawer for more than twenty years until the owner and I started talking.

By the way,  has the new edition of your panda book has been released? I want to buy a copy.




The new edition is still a work in progress. ETA is December of this year; stay tuned.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.com1

Offline badon

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2012, 06:27:39 PM »
$3300 for a genuine great wall would have been a jaw-dropper. I would have paid twice that much and still thought I was getting it for half price :)

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2012, 05:28:36 PM »
I am brand new to this forum and I may have mistakenly posted this message to another part of this forum so if this is a duplicate, please pardon my confusion.

Thank you to all those who have contributed to this thread...I have learned a lot from your posts. I would be happy to get any feedback since I am brand new here and to learning about the China Great Wall medals. Here's the story of the Great Wall medal I own...

Back in the mid to late 1980's, a couple of years after graduating high school, not looking to buy anything but a couple of new shirts, I came across a coin dealer who had a store in a mall in a rapidly expanding Asian community here in Flushing, New York.

I had no interest at all in coins or silver at this time but I did have a great fascination with Chinese history and especially the Boxer Rebellion and the Great Wall of China. As I was passing the coin dealer's shop, my eye was struck by a shiny Great Wall medal.

I asked the woman if I could see this beautiful medal and after about a minute of being transfixed by the detail and the inscription on the backside, I asked the young Chinese woman how much was this item I had in my hands. Now I definitely can't remember any figures but I believe she said something like $50 and I was just about to pay that when an old man hurredly came out from the back of the shop and in a somewhat angered voice said something in Chinese to the young Chinese woman who then immediately told me a price that was twice or three times higher than what she initially told me. I initially said no at this point because if I purchased this curious item, I would have no money left to buy the shirts I wanted. After walking a few steps away, I returned and begrudgingly paid the new asking price and left the mall with a cool looking Great Wall of China medal but no new shirts.

It's only been in very recent years that I began believing that precious metals like silver and gold are a good way to invest some of my money instead of continuing to dump money into my small and abismally devalued mutual funds investment. It was only at this time that I remembered that I have tucked away somewhere in a drawer something made of what appears to be silver. I found it and not knowing anything about coins/medals and their values, I used Noxon to polish this medal so that I can enjoy the look of a shiny medal instead of the tarnished one that I was looking at.

So, the first 2 pictures I link to here are of the medal I purchased back in the 1980's after I polished it a few years ago. The next 2 pictures are of the original wooden box it came in and the coin inside the box. These were taken today.

IMAGE 1


DIRECT LINK:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mmissinglink/The%20Great%20Wall%20of%20China%20medal/Thegreatwallofchinamedal.jpg

IMAGE 2


DIRECT LINK:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mmissinglink/The%20Great%20Wall%20of%20China%20medal/Thegreatwallofchinamedalreverse.jpg

IMAGE 3


DIRECT LINK:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mmissinglink/The%20Great%20Wall%20of%20China%20medal/TheGreatWallofChinamedalbox.jpg

IMAGE 4


The thin yellow thing near the lower right of the medal is the yellow tab that sits under the coin which allows the coin to be lifted out of the molded base.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mmissinglink/The%20Great%20Wall%20of%20China%20medal/TheGreatWallofChinamedalinbox.jpg


This is the only forum that I have found any talk of this medal. I don't own any old coins. I have not seriously considered getting this medal authenticated / graded because of the cost of grading and frankly, if I do send in a coin that may be rare or valuable to a grading company, how would I know that they don't switch mine with a replica or fake one?

My question to anyone who wants to chime in, is it possible or even likely that I have an authentic  medal? I would be very surprised that I do because of the seemingly low price I paid and also I have never been so lucky to have stumbled across anything of real value. My guess is that I may have bought a replica (which is okay because when I purchased it I wasn't even thinking of any potential value...I bought it because it is beautiful). If it is a replica, then spending any of my hard earned money on grading would be money down the tube, yes?

I wouldn't even know where to get sucg a thing graded and what the best way to do this is.

Any feedback or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Warmly,
Louie

Offline RAREMEDAL

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2012, 10:03:43 AM »
“八达岭长城和梅花”长城纪念章,由上海造币厂骆行沙先生设计雕刻(骆行沙 1940.4.1——1998.1.4),有《梅花长城图》的纪念章,最早的产生年代不详,应该是1980年甚至更早的时候。梅花长城这一面的设计雕刻堪称经典,上海造币厂曾多次使用此“八达岭长城和梅花”图,纪念章另一面配以不同内容和图案,生产过多种不同的纪念章,(如大家熟知的:“不到长城非好汉”篆字印文及缺少字母“E”的错版纪念章,是其中的一种,分为:有“1980”年号黄铜和无年号、以及不同材质等多种版本)纪念章直径一般都是60毫米,材质有H68本色黄铜(参见《中国黄铜加工牌号及化学成分表》)、上色黄铜、上色紫铜、铜镀金、铜镀银、纯银等多种。
RAREMEDAL — Feng Jingjing sir. I come from He'nan of China.
I love chinese rare medals and golden and silver coins.
My E-mail:2209925761@qq.com
My blog:  http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhongyuanfeng555

Offline RAREMEDAL

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2012, 10:10:15 AM »
"HEROES"正确版长城纪念章,是王振峰和骆行沙设计雕刻的,长城图完全不同于《八达岭长城梅花图》,这种有“中国长城  THE GREAT WALL”字样的长城图,也曾被上海造币厂多次使用,使用多种不同的材质、另一面配以不同的内容和图案,生成过多种不同的纪念章,最早的使用时间不详,可能是1987年。而且,我发现:此种纪念章的篆刻印章“不到长城非好汉”,也存在版本差异,细节有些不同;长城图那一面,还分为“有云彩版”和“无云彩版”。
RAREMEDAL — Feng Jingjing sir. I come from He'nan of China.
I love chinese rare medals and golden and silver coins.
My E-mail:2209925761@qq.com
My blog:  http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhongyuanfeng555

Offline RAREMEDAL

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2012, 10:50:22 AM »
《八达岭长城梅花图》背面缺少字母“E”的错版长城纪念章(俗称“错版长城”章),紫铜版的在中国大陆市面至少有两种版本的假货赝品。另一种被认为珍贵的“银色”版(银的颜色)(实际成份暂时未确定),镜面和喷砂对比版(NGC称之为:UC,ULTRA CAMEO 即:贝壳浮雕质感),俗称“镜面错版长城”章。这种纪念章近两年突然出现了多枚,并有多枚被NGC公司评级封装,评级了不同的分数。此章被NGC标为:“1984 CHINA S3.3 OZ GREAT WALL”。但是,据我所知,这种“镜面错版长城”章,正面、背面、侧面边缘,均没有标注有关重量和成分含量的标示文字或戳记;并且,这种章的实际重量远远超出“3.3两”。我不知道NGC公司在评级封装前,有没有精确称重。如果没有称重,那么我认为这是一个极大的失误。精确称重,是做钱币鉴定最重要的要素之一。
RAREMEDAL — Feng Jingjing sir. I come from He'nan of China.
I love chinese rare medals and golden and silver coins.
My E-mail:2209925761@qq.com
My blog:  http://blog.sina.com.cn/zhongyuanfeng555

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2012, 06:07:13 PM »
谢谢你的帮助。

我是美国人,我使用谷歌翻译,所以我希望你明白这一点。 1987年我购买了大约金牌的重量是103克。非磁性,这似乎是真正的银。我买了它从中国钱币经销商在纽约法拉盛大约25年前为50美元。什么公司在美国,我应该采取金牌认证和分级?

谢谢你的帮助。

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2012, 09:18:18 PM »
Attached are pictures of enlarged section of carved seal for this coin. It is the most obvious section to determine if the coin is counterfeit or not.

First picture is from NGC PF67, posted by pandacollector, with “THE GREAT WALL” on top and中国长城 at the bottom of the design of obverse. The “heroes” is spelled correctly. The seal “不到长城非好汉”is carved concave.
 
Second picture is from NGC PF64, original owned by KonaJim and had changed hand twice recently. The design of great wall extended all the way to the rim. The design does not have “THR GREAT WALL” or中国长城 at obverse side. The “heroes” was spelled incorrectly as “heros”. The seal “不到长城非好汉”is carved concave.

Third picture is from Gilmore, deemed as questionable authenticity by NGC. It is a matte version of NGC PF64 mentioned above, but with correct spelling of “heroes”. The seal “不到长城非好汉” is different, convex type.

Fourth picture is from NGC detail, same version as NGC PF64 mentioned above, but with correct spelling of “heroes”. The seal “不到长城非好汉”is carved concave.
 
Fifth picture is from mmissinglink The coin design is identical to NGC PF67 mentioned above, except seal “不到长城非好汉” is different, convex type.

Apparently, NGC has graded three versions and having the same seal, concave type.

The sixth and seventh pictures are copied from Modern Chinese Commemorative Gold and Silver Coins and Medals Pictorial Vol. 1 (Shen Jiaju edited and Distributed by The People's Bank of China and China Gold Coin Limited). The coin in this picture does not match any of the above five coin. The picture show the obverse of this coin matches NGC PF64 mentioned above, but the seal in reverse is different, convex type.

There is a chance that the differences observed in the pictures may be just optical illusion. Petercollector and mmissinglink, please examine your coin to determine if the seal indeed has two versions, concave and convex.

IMO, based on the pictures, mmissinglink’s coin is genuine. Now we may have five versions of proof coin and one matte version.


Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2012, 10:20:29 PM »
Wow! Thank you....I will read more carefully your entire comment and pictures. I think these are going to be very helpful pictures and information.


Offline SANDAC

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »
This is all the NGC data I have concerning the Great Wall:
 
3306854-003   (1984) CHINA GREAT WALL   Medal Unc detail      
3347564-005   (1984) CHINA GREAT WALL   Medal PF64      
3357451-005   (1984) CHINA GREAT WALL   Medal MS68      
3357451-006   (1984) CHINA GREAT WALL   Medal MS68      
3553424-005   (1984) CHINA GREAT WALL   Medal PF67   

The only one that matched your coin, mmissinglink, is the last one, 3553424-005.  Attached is a picture of the seal.  It appears as convex, yet different than yours.  Pay close attention to the last character at lower left 漢  and the shape and thickness of the frame around the seal.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2012, 12:08:29 AM »
I just looked at the seal on my coin and I am confirming that the letters are raised or convex.