Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 87323 times)

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Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2012, 07:09:08 PM »
Thank you for the information.

Last year, at one of the coin shows in Chicago, Nicolas Brown with Majestic Rarities, had 5 or 6 versions of 1984 Great Wall medal.  If I remember correctly, he had a proof silver, a matte silver, a brass, a copper and one or two others.  I do not remember if any of them were graded.  He had an expert at his tables who seemed to know everything anyone would ever want to know about these medals.  His name is Huang Rui Yong, a director of the Shanghai Numismatic Society (and the holder of many other very important positions in Shanghai).  He tried to explain to me the varieties and metal types, which were common, which were not, and the current prices for the various varieties in mainland China.  In all honesty, I got very confused and came away thinking it is better to own a proof silver than a matte silver, but it may be better to own either than a brass, copper or other non-silver medal.  I wish that he would write an article about this so that I could have it and study it.  After reading various posts on this topic, I cannot remember if any or all of these had the word "hero" misspelled and I do not remember if the Great Wall design extended to the bottom of the medal or if there was a flat line stopping the design and leaving space for writing.  If anyone saw this exhibit and remembers the details, I would appreciate the information.  If by chance, anyone took a picture of this exhibit, it would be wonderful to see the picture of the various Great Walls.  Mark Bonke

Mark Bonke 

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2012, 09:07:26 PM »
Just to summarize all the information that was presented here up to now, the medal has 6 versions - 3 in silver, 1 bronze and 2 copper.

Silver (Planned mintage = 200, Actual mintage = 68), proof version is far more rare than matte
1. Proof - "Heroes" spelled correctly
2. Proof error - "Heros", Heroes misspelled
3. Matte error - "Heros", Heroes misspelled
Photos of all 3 versions: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4488.msg32632#msg32632

4. Bronze, photos: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4488.msg26572#msg26572

5. Copper
6. Copper error
Photos: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4488.msg26087#msg26087

I will update this information to the Coin Compendium.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2012, 02:42:07 AM »
Looking very good Badon.
Regarding CC6630, this specimen has no grade but is "UNC Details". I placed the "UNC Details" in the Grade tab but it does not look right.
How do we list in the CC coins/medals like this one that were authenticated by NGC/PCGS but have no grade?

Offline badon

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2012, 02:58:51 AM »
Put a grade of "0". The Sheldon grading scale goes from 1 to 70, so in the CC, "0" is reserved for certified coins that are identified or authenticated, but not graded. Some ancient coins may have grades that don't use the Sheldon 70 point scale, but they can be converted to the 70 point scale pretty easily:

http://www.ngccoin.com/ancients/grading.aspx

When we start putting ancient coins into the CC, I'll publish the exact conversion scale we will use.

We can't use that conversion table for an "UNC Details" grade because "UNC Details" is technically not a grade. It is just a description that basically means "If X, Y, and Z were not wrong with this coin, it would have the equivalent of ABC-grade details".

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2012, 07:42:42 AM »
My new medal  :biggrin:

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2012, 09:23:48 AM »
I picked it up on Zhaoonline for $3300 including buyer's premium. That was the opening price and my bid was the only one so clearly I overpaid for it. I really think that for its tiny mintage of 68 this medal should bring much higher prices. But apparently it is not as popular as other medals with much higher mintage figures. This is a long term hold for me so I really did not mind overpaying for it. In my opinion it has a lot of potential for a significant price increase in the coming years and that is why I purchased it and would have paid a lot more - tiny mintage, first big size silver medal and the first error medal. Let's see in 10 years.... time will tell.

At the end of the month I will visit Shanghai and will pick it up.

Offline adamc4

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2012, 01:36:04 PM »
I don't know that much about the coin, but that's a really interesting purchase Gilmore. I'm glad to know there was real money behind that one bid. Congrats

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2012, 01:40:12 PM »
Gilmore

I own a 1984 Great Wall 3.3oz silver medal, graded as a proof (not matte proof)(with "heros").  My medal is toned.  Your medal is not.  Due to the glare in the details of your pictures, I struggled to make a comparison between my medal and your medal.  With this low mintage, the details should be the same.  I saw several differences in the trees on the Great Wall side.  If these details are real and not a figment of my imagination, there are even more varieties.  When you get your medal in your hands, take pictures in better lighting.  This will let me make a better comparison.  If I still see differences, I will post pictures of my medal on the coin forum.  Until I see better pictures, these differences may or may not exist.  Congratulations!

Mark Bonke

ps  Imagine if every member of the coin forum would purchase one of these medals and hold it.  Imagine the value when one of these would come into the marketplace in the future.  Wow!

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2012, 03:10:06 PM »
Gilmore

I always assumed the only difference between the proof and the matte was the finish.  When I re-read my comments, I realized the design differences which I was seeing between your medal and my medal may be normal.  Creation of different dies for proof and matte finishes resulted in minor design differences.

If the mintage is truly 68 with two or three varieties, we should not see two medals in this auction.  Either the mintage is higher or . . .

Mark Bonke

Dragons_Are_Silly

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2012, 03:23:35 PM »

If the mintage is truly 68 with two or three varieties, we should not see two medals in this auction.  Either the mintage is higher or . . .

Mark Bonke

Its not liek their not making then anymor -

Oh oh..


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shanghai-Mint-1989-Great-Wall-of-China-copper-60mm-CHINA-COIN-MEDAL-/221010909468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337546d91c#ht_500wt_689

Offline KonaJim

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2012, 08:57:01 PM »
This coin is known to be one that is counterfeited.  I sold one graded PF64UC last month to a Chinese buyer for $ 7,000.00.  The fact there were no other bids would alarm me.  I would examine this coin very carefully to assure it's authenticity.  I would seek the advice of the master of counterfeit detection, our very own poconopenn.  If it's real you got a great deal.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2012, 11:09:19 PM »
If the mintage is truly 68 with two or three varieties, we should not see two medals in this auction.  Either the mintage is higher or . . .

My thought as well. I still having trouble making sense of the fact that there are 3 varieties for such a tiny mintage. It may not be 68 which is the actual mintage, but 200 (the planned mintage). Anyway, the mintage is relatively small and it will take only a few strong hands to push the price higher. 

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2012, 11:15:34 PM »
This coin is known to be one that is counterfeited.  I sold one graded PF64UC last month to a Chinese buyer for $ 7,000.00.  The fact there were no other bids would alarm me.  I would examine this coin very carefully to assure it's authenticity.  I would seek the advice of the master of counterfeit detection, our very own poconopenn.  If it's real you got a great deal.

Hi Jim,
Zhaoonline accepts returns in cases of authenticity issues so I'll have it examined by NGC once I receive it and if there are any problems with it back it goes to them. I will contact poconopenn as well for his opinion.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2012, 11:21:41 PM »
I sold one graded PF64UC last month to a Chinese buyer for $ 7,000.00.

By the way Jim, a PF64 was sold yesterday in Zhaoonline for $5,500. Since NGC census shows only 1 medal graded 64 it should be the one you previously sold to the Chinese buyres.

http://english.zhaoonline.com/detail/auction-1545869-detail.shtml

Offline KonaJim

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2012, 11:32:51 PM »
Yes, that was the coin I sold last month.  I wonder why my buyer sold it?