Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 101510 times)

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Offline MrOrganic

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 02:13:30 PM »
Thats beyond my computer skills... LOL

If you have the "red" catalog of china mint coins just compare them.

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Offline tkcoin

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 09:03:30 PM »
I don't think there is Version 1. It looks like a counterfeit of the 90s, too shiny, and it tries to mimic the 1985 great wall bronze version. The 1985 bronze are mostly counterfeits and that is why they are so cheap, currently at $14.

There is no talk of silver version 1 or 2 in China. In China, there is only one version, which is the copy of 1984 bronze version.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 12:46:51 AM »
I found 3 versions of the Great Wall silver medal, one is matte and the other 2 have a proof/mirror background. How is it possible that with a mintage of 68 there are 3 different versions? 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 12:57:43 AM by Gilmore »

Offline KonaJim

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 02:00:38 AM »
This was sent to me I believe by poconopenn?  It's been awhile so I can't remember.  From the research and information I have received the 1984 Version I, which is the "error" version without the "e" in Heroe's comes in a proof and matt proof.  Then Version II is the correction of the misspelling.

Offline KonaJim

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 02:02:51 AM »
From the auction in Hong Kong.

Offline badon

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 03:00:25 AM »
I found 3 versions of the Great Wall silver medal, one is matte and the other 2 have a proof/mirror background. How is it possible that with a mintage of 68 there are 3 different versions? 

For questions in the form:

"How is it possible that with a mintage of X there are Y different versions?"

very often, the answer is "because it wasn't perfect yet". It seems that the China mint lacked enough experience for the early modern Chinese coins to get it right the first time. Even now, in 2012, they have reported a broken die after a small fraction of the mintage was produced. Broken dies are usually caused by the interaction of the hardening process with unpredictable quirks the design. Hardening is very challenging, even for an experienced mint, and sometimes we get several varieties for low mintage coins because they had to change the design a few times to prevent the die from cracking after it gets hardened.

Of course, that just makes collecting much more fun and challenging. Who will be the first to obtain all 3 great wall varieties in a 69 grade? Is it even possible? Interesting....

Underbidder

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 03:05:58 AM »
I think a better explanation is that there were few restrictions followed on mintage limits, and there was money to be made.

Offline badon

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2012, 03:13:58 AM »
If you can find 68 + 1 of those great wall coins, I will be impressed. I was looking for them when they were supposed to be cheap, and I was not able to obtain one. I will be impressed if you can find 10 of them. No, find 5, and we'll call that good.

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2012, 03:16:38 AM »
I knew a guy who worked in a cannery....canning beans...

Bragged how sometimes he and his night-shift buddies would can frogs.... Just cuz they could...

We have NO idea what motivation drove early China Mint production runs.... A few dollars under the counter here or there....

Offline badon

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2012, 03:24:41 AM »
Unfounded accusations and speculations are indistinguishable from trolling. Either way, that's enough for today.

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2012, 03:30:53 AM »
Trolling?  Seriously?  Au contraire...

You show me a series with a lot of varieties, and I'll say multiple production runs with many more than official mintage figures.

Defending lower, irrational mintage figures for the sake of holding up price valuation for one's own benefit, is to me,  trolling


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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2012, 03:45:47 AM »
Unfounded accusations and speculations are indistinguishable from trolling. Either way, that's enough for today.

Do you have any dissagreement with the proven history of the multiple runs of say, Historical Figures Series, from German Distributor, and my statement that mintage restrictions were ignored if there was money to be made?  Really?
You saying 100%, that mintage numbers were accurately adhered to? Wow...

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2012, 04:10:58 AM »
I found 3 versions of the Great Wall silver medal, one is matte and the other 2 have a proof/mirror background. How is it possible that with a mintage of 68 there are 3 different versions? 


I think you answered your own rhetorical question, as you know.

We, as collectors of Modern Chinese Coins, need to come to terms with reality, even if unseemly.

Offline bonke

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »
NGC has graded several of these Great Wall medals in silver and bronze.  When they grade the silver version, do they distinguish between proof and matte?.  Are they recognizing two design varieties?  When they grade the copper/brass/bronze version, are they identifying the metal type, the design variety and the date? Mark Bonke

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2012, 06:11:24 PM »
If you can find 68 + 1 of those great wall coins, I will be impressed.

NGC has graded several of these Great Wall medals in silver and bronze.  When they grade the silver version, do they distinguish between proof and matte?.  Are they recognizing two design varieties?

Looking at NGC's census they distinguish between the proof and matte versions of the silver medal. There were 4 proofs graded and 6 mattes. The mattes achieved very good grades.
Matte - 69: 3, 68: 2, 66: 1
Proof - 67: 1, 66: 1, 64: 1, 63: 1

http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/WorldBaseGrades.aspx?MajorCategory=WORLD%20COINS&CatDesc=CHINA+-+PEOPLE%27S+REPUBLIC&Denom=S3.3OZ