Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 103391 times)

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Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #165 on: February 28, 2014, 04:57:37 PM »
@fwang,  you clearly know a lot about these medals and your research work is excellent.

It's still not so easy for me to tell the difference in the characters from the NGC pictures vs other's pictures. After I look at the images for more than 30 seconds, my eyes start to not be able to make much sense of the dimensionality. In your last post, both images definitely seem to have characters that are raised but by no means would I be certain of this. It really does look like on my medal, in the NGC pics, the characters are casting a shadow, which would mean they are raised characters on my medal. But this could be just a strange play of light.

Even in the pictures that I took, my medal appears to have raised characters.

The reason I am convinced it does is because if you look at the border wall or frame of the seal....it is a high border I believe. It is light color compared to the non-character parts of the seal which are darker color. The characters are light color....exactly the same as the border wall or frame of the seal.

Does that make sense?

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #166 on: February 28, 2014, 05:10:39 PM »
Also, looking at both medal images in your last post on page 11 fwang, in the image on the right, the raised characters are darker down the centerlines of the strokes and lighter at the edges except for the very outer edge which becomes very dark (and thinner) like an outline of each character. It's the same exact thing in the NGC picture of my medal; the character strokes are darker along the centerlines and lighter toward the edges except for the darker thin outline. It's the same....both raised characters in my opinion. If the image on the right depicts raised characters, the image on the left MUST also depict raised characters because the lighting on the strokes of the characters is identical (though not the same intensity which is understandable).

The image on the right is darker altogether and it looks like the characters are higher and more defined, less wear perhaps. The characters on the left image are also raised though not as high and defined as the one on the right. Perhaps it's because my medal's characters have some wear that the medal on the right does not.

The difference may also be caused at the time of minting. Maybe one was struck better than the other and that maybe accounts for the higher characters on one and more flat looking on the other?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #167 on: February 28, 2014, 05:56:48 PM »
Also, looking at both medal images in your last post on page 11 fwang, in the image on the right, the raised characters are darker down the centerlines of the strokes and lighter at the edges except for the very outer edge which becomes very dark (and thinner) like an outline of each character. It's the same exact thing in the NGC picture of my medal; the character strokes are darker along the centerlines and lighter toward the edges except for the darker thin outline. It's the same....both raised characters in my opinion. If the image on the right depicts raised characters, the image on the left MUST also depict raised characters because the lighting on the strokes of the characters is identical (though not the same intensity which is understandable).

The image on the right is darker altogether and it looks like the characters are higher and more defined, less wear perhaps. The characters on the left image are also raised though not as high and defined as the one on the right. Perhaps it's because my medal's characters have some wear that the medal on the right does not.

The difference may also be caused at the time of minting. Maybe one was struck better than the other and that maybe accounts for the higher characters on one and more flat looking on the other?
Thanks for your reply. When you have a chance, please take another look at your medal. It would be very strange for a medal of this small mintage to have both raised and sunken seal characters, which exhibit exactly the same die defects.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #168 on: February 28, 2014, 06:09:09 PM »
I will look at it at some point in the Spring or Summer.

I am convinced, as per the explanation of my analysis noted above, that there are sunken NO sunken characters at all on either of the two medals you have labelled "82" and "87". Both of these medals pictured have raised characters....it is obvious to me now as described in my previous comments. The way the light interacts with the characters is exactly the same on both medals pictured.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #169 on: March 02, 2014, 11:34:36 PM »
I will look at it at some point in the Spring or Summer.

I am convinced, as per the explanation of my analysis noted above, that there are sunken NO sunken characters at all on either of the two medals you have labelled "82" and "87". Both of these medals pictured have raised characters....it is obvious to me now as described in my previous comments. The way the light interacts with the characters is exactly the same on both medals pictured.
I got in touch with RAREMEDAL, who is an expert on Chinese medals. He said that all the Great Wall medals he had seen, whatever the version and material, all had sunken characters on the seal, including the 82 mirror and matte versions. Just for your information.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #170 on: March 03, 2014, 07:56:38 PM »
Hi fwang,   Really...that is very fascinating because the characters look raised in the images you posted. Thank you for asking this expert.

BTW, I just noticed this rare Great Wall medal auction just now:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/231172668736?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35d2f6fd40

Is that the original Mint plastic sleeve that this medal is in or is that an after market sleeve?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #171 on: March 03, 2014, 08:06:19 PM »
Hi fwang,   Really...that is very fascinating because the characters look raised in the images you posted. Thank you for asking this expert.

BTW, I just noticed this rare Great Wall medal auction just now:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/231172668736?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35d2f6fd40

Is that the original Mint plastic sleeve that this medal is in or is that an after market sleeve?
It looks like the original sleeve.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #172 on: March 03, 2014, 08:09:12 PM »
Hi fwang,   Really...that is very fascinating because the characters look raised in the images you posted. Thank you for asking this expert.

BTW, I just noticed this rare Great Wall medal auction just now:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1985-ANA-Convention-1-oz-silver-Proof-Medal-GREAT-WALL-original-holder-/231172668736?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35d2f6fd40

Is that the original Mint plastic sleeve that this medal is in or is that an after market sleeve?
I was surprised to hear that even the 82 error medals had sunken characters. I showed him the pictures. He said that NGC pictures are sometimes misleading because of the lighting. He had never seen any Great Wall silver or brass or bronze medals with raised characters. He started to collect Great Wall medals around 2008.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #173 on: March 03, 2014, 10:03:13 PM »
He's probably accurate as he certainly has way more experience than I. This makes me curious about the characters because they definitely do appear to be raised in the couple of NGC images that  I looked at. I will have to remind myself that when I go to my safe deposit box next time, to look closely at the Great Wall medal seal.

I will report back on what I find then.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #174 on: March 07, 2014, 11:49:55 PM »
Here is the seal on my own medal.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #175 on: March 11, 2014, 01:03:46 AM »
I honestly can not tell from that picture if the characters are raised or not. In one moment when I look at it, the characters look sunken and in the next, they look raised. I suppose it's much easier to tell when actually viewing the coin in person because even from a high quality static image like that above, there is confusion in my view.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2014, 04:19:52 AM »
If you look at the image with the shiny points being raised, its easy to gain perpective.  
The points are shiny since they are raised, and have contact marks.


"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #177 on: March 16, 2014, 09:47:45 AM »
Thanks Hippanda. What you are saying is what I was assuming but that would mean that the characters are raised, yes?  But according to fwang,  "I got in touch with RAREMEDAL, who is an expert on Chinese medals. He said that all the Great Wall medals he had seen, whatever the version and material, all had sunken characters on the seal, including the 82 mirror and matte versions. Just for your information. "

So doesn't this conflict directly with the picture of fwang's medal? Because if the lighter shades represent higher points, then the characters are raised, not sunken.

Yes?
 

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #178 on: March 16, 2014, 01:06:23 PM »
No.



The shiny raised points are on the outside border of the characters, which are sunken.

"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #179 on: April 07, 2014, 11:21:00 PM »
Here is a gold plated version. Any idea if it's real or fake?