Author Topic: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...  (Read 77579 times)

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Offline Smartmorpheus

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2013, 02:08:41 AM »








Offline Smartmorpheus

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2013, 11:32:08 AM »
Anyone?

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2013, 11:37:17 AM »
Dear Smartmorpheus,

Like I said before...
I really would be happy to help you and identify but 3 images don't want to upload and I can't see them.
You have to attach them in a proper way.
KONDi
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Offline SANDAC

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2013, 12:46:14 PM »
KONDi,
I downloaded the images from imageshack.us and uploaded them here.

Offline Smartmorpheus

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2013, 06:55:14 AM »
Thanks my friend.Please i need your opinion to identified the coins.... :(

Offline pikipoki

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2013, 01:53:44 PM »
Hi KONDi. What do you think about this coin. Is it fake or real? I got it from my grandmother 20 years ago. Thanks.

Offline Smartmorpheus

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2013, 05:19:22 PM »
Kondi please reply for my coins too

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2013, 12:18:43 PM »
Hey Guys,
I have the answer for your coins and I will post it tomorrow with my analysis. There is some problem with show up "Internal Server Error". I hope it will get fix tomorrow.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2013, 12:24:24 PM »
Dear Smartmorpheus and pikipoki,

Sorry guys for my late reply. I am recently very busy with something...

Unfortunately I must upset both of you. All coins are fake.

Smartmorpheus,

Let's do a general analysis of your 3 coins.
Nr 1 has sandy color. I circled sample areas when you can see it. I have seen similar fake coins with the same apperance and they all turned to be fake.
Nr 2 has bright appearance and also doesn't look genuine for me.
Nr 3 is the worst one. If all of them came from the same source then there for sure fakes!
Please take a look on the obverse of this coin. The first character which means "year" in English has unnatural size---bold size of this character. It has also some green spots on a surface. The apperance of Yuan's hair is not right. Normally the hair have different look.
The reverse is even worse! The 2 parts of second chinese character which means "yuan" in English "dollar" have not shapely size, please notice it. Finally the rim part: when you look up you can see the tiny line. It is like the rim is splited. When we will move down we can see partially disappearing teeth. To summarize they are all fakes came from all from one place and made of white copper.

pikipoki,

Thank you for your question and welcome to this great forum!

Sorry I have to tell you the same what I also told Smartmorpheus.
Your coin is also fake. But your coin is a different case.
It is silver-made fake. I can clearly see it from the apperance of your fatman dollar.
Why I think it is silver-made fake? Few things which I want to point:
First of all on the obverse one tooth has something like tiny pits (2 or 3). What is more. On the Yuan's face there are 4 scratches, which doesn't look like they are made during circulation. The other 2 smaller ones you can find on Yuan's clothes and on the reverse 3 on the rim. The part with stars doesn't look with details. I don't see those tiny lines close to stars' part. Finally on the reverse when we take a look down the part of the rim has a rough look and between one leaf there is like a tiny line added. Those all things doesn't look good. I have seen similar problems on silver-made fake 50 cents YSK 1914 a while ago.
Right now it doesn't promise that the coin which you got from your relative is genuine. Even it was a long time ago. If I am not wrong they started producing fake old chinese coins like 30 or even 40 years ago, in 1970s or 1980s.

Hope it helps somehow...

Best wishes from Shanghai

KONDi

PS. Photos will be tomorrow posted---will try my best. I have problem to attach them to this post because of this error N17.
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
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Offline pikipoki

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2013, 04:32:01 AM »
Hi KONDi. Thank you for your quick answer. I already thought that the coin is not real. I would still be really thankful if you could put the photos on where you mark the mistakes.

Best wishes from Slovenia.

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2013, 05:42:24 AM »
Dear pikipoki,

You are welcome. I will open new post. This post has educational purpose. I will open new post and try to post photos and one more time my analysis.

SANDAC, is it possible to close this post? It already overloaded. I have a problem to upload photos and help new members with their coins.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2013, 05:42:52 AM »
Dear poconopenn,

It took me a while to find a proof that my People from Gansu (Kansu) variety of YSK 1914 (picture nr 4 on page 1 of this post) is not a fake coin. On a picture B1 you can take a look and compare my coin with the coin which was sold out as a lot 2503 on Nov.13, 2010 by Beijing ChengXuan Auctions Co., Ltd. Here is the link:
http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/31481/?searchterm=Yuan Shih Kai Kansu

The same case is is with my Xinjiang YSK 1914 ((picture nr 18a on page 1 of this post) which is genuine one. Please compare coins on picture: A1a.
lot 2008 on Nov.8-9, 2008 by Beijing ChengXuan Auctions Co., Ltd. Here is the link:
http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/12109/?searchterm=Yuan Shih Kai Sinkiang

Here my 18b - another Xinjiang YSK 1914 variety. I wasn't able to track the image of reverse of this graded PCGS on Beijing ChengXuan Auctions Co., Ltd. but I can be sure, by judging obverse that this is the same coin (PCGS one and my 18b).

There are many Xinjiang YSK 1914 varieties which I will present here later...
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #72 on: July 30, 2013, 06:49:57 AM »
On a picture: 3 different varieties:

YSK nr 1: circled in red + red arrow: there is one leaf which is in a big distance to another leaf.
YSK nr 2: circled in red + red arrow: 2 leaves are close to each other.
YSK nr 3: circled in red + red arrow: 2 leaves are very close to each other and the 1st leaf is thiner than the 2nd one.

YSK nr 1: circled in green + green arrow: there are 3 leaves with the distance to each other.
YSK nr 2: circled in green + green arrow: 2 leaves are in the same distance to each other but the 3rd one is pointing into them.
YSK nr 3: circled in green + green arrow: there are 4 leaves: the fist 2 are close to each other, the other 2 in the distance.

Finally...
YSK nr 1: circled in blue + blue arrow: widely spread small two leaves on the top of bigger leaf.
YSK nr 2: circled in blue + blue arrow: narrower spread of small two leaves on the top of bigger leaf.
YSK nr 3: circled in blue + blue arrow: tips of narrower spread small two leaves which are on the top of bigger leaf (or it could be ribbon) touch another bigger leaf above.

There are more such of small details which distinguish one variety from another varierty. There are so many varieties of Xinjiang YSK dollar 1914 that it is hard to say there are only 2 and others are fake, No! Many are not discovered and moulds which they use in Xinjiang province were not so precisely, if not the worst from all local issued YSK coins. Well, maybe private issued YSK dollars were even worse than those Xinjiang ones. It is hard to judge it.

I also would like to post here another photo...A while ago dragondollar showed me his variety of Xinjiang YSK 1914. I found similar one on Beijing ChengXuan Auctions. The obverse is the same but the reverse shows differences, where? In location of leaves, number of leaves and shape of chinese characters.

That's not the first time Xinjiang coins bring us a lot of headaches. I am sure some of you remember once I asked dragondollar about my 5 miscals silver coin from Xinjiang province. It was hard to answer which exactly variety it is:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4652.0

I hope you enjoy reading! Take care guys---keep an eye on your fatmen:)
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2013, 06:35:22 PM »
KNODi

First picture attached is an enlarged section of your Xinging coin. The lumpy surface suggests this is a low quality fake coin.

Second and third pictures show the shape and location of the first two Chinese characters of Kansu coin in your B1 picture.  Obviously, they are not identical. They are other differences in obverse and reverse of these two coins. IMO, it is a questionable coin, as mentioned in Reply 41 in this thread.

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2013, 10:39:41 AM »
Dear poconopenn,

Thank your for your answer.

As you know probably Xinjiang YSK dollars 1914 have low silver content. On the piece from ChengXuan Auctions (picture 2008). It also has bumpy surface, if you will take a look closely, so I disagree with you that this is low quality fake coin.

The location of first 2 Chinese characters of Kansu coin might be slightly different, but please notice that my coin was in circulation, while the other coin is in XF-AU condition. The coin on my photo also doesn't show enough clear details as photo of Kansu coin from auction house.

Reasonable would be send those 2: Xinjiang and Kansu coin to grading company. However I don't not own those coins a while ago.

IMO those 2 are both genuine, but I respect your opinion as well.
KONDi
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Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)