Author Topic: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...  (Read 75210 times)

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Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2012, 05:36:08 AM »
Dear r3globe,

On the beginning when I saw this your new YSK dollar 1914 I thought it is genuine one. But after close examination I must say it is FAKE coin. Yes, there are many details like more visible hair and part with stars, but this is not genuine piece and I will give my head for it. The hair are one of the crucial point which betrays this coin. I haven't seen such of second YSK dollar 1914 with so clear hair. The hair are clear on other common YSK dollars 1914 but not so clear. Let's take a look on close photo one of my YSK 1914 with mint mark "O" it has similar design like the hair on your fatman dollar 1914. But your is not "O" variety, just common. Besides, on my YSK 1914 ear is double and shape of stars part is different than on yours YSK 1914. So your coin can't be the same one with the coin on picture 1a. I also compared your YSK 1914 with one of my YSK 1914 which I have. The hair are similar, but not the same. However the part with stars on your YSK 1914 is not the same as the stars part on my YSK 1914. So my coin (picture 2a) is not the same with your coin. Now my coin from picture 3a. The hair are the same (nearly the same I must say once again) but stars part doesn't match with your coin. Also on reverse of my coins (picture 3b) there is no "O" mint mark. On your coin I also don't see it but I also don't see clear on leaf which getting out of one grain on the right side. So your coins is
not 3a-3b coin. 4a it is obverse of my YSK 1920, hair are clear, stars part is clear but not the same looking as on your coin + my coin is 1920 while yours is 1914.

Now the most interesting part of my analysis.

1. On the obverse there is some inner dot. Also on the ear of Yuan Shih Kai. I marked those both things in red color on your coin. There are also 2 on rim, with little different shape. I don't think those are made by some kind of mechanical damage. It is made during producing process. I didn't see similar inner dots on any of my common YSK 1914 and believe me I have seen a lot of YSK dollars 1914 already.
2. A collar looks not clear and not natural, while stars part is quite clear.
3. The surface on obverse and reverse looks rough, like it would have some pitting, which means that the coin has 99% chances to be fake. Unless this is YSK 1914 Xinjiang issued. But that's different design than common YSK 1914. I marked 2 such of rough areas on obverse and reverse on your coin.
4. I believe 3 thin teeth are missing on the end of Yuan's uniform on obverse. Of course they also could be covered by dirt.
5. The 5th chinese character on the obverse of your coin is not clear enough, little blur. Why only this one? why the other are clear? Let's take a look on picture of my coin, picture nr 6a. On my coin you can see that 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th chinese character---they are all not clear. Also part with hair, part with stars and the downstairs part of Yuan's uniform, the are all not clear. Which is normal effect of circulation of this coin, but on your coin: hair are clear, part with stars is clear all 5 chinese characters are clear only this one is not clear.
6. 6th chinese character on obverse of your coin is not fully connected. The downstairs part of 6th character is not connected, it could be also covered by dirt that's why I see it as not connected. However the last chinese character is only not connected on YSK dollar dated 1921 and it is variety. Take a look on closer picture C and D.

That's all about obverse of your coin now reverse...

7. On reverse of your YSK 1914 upstairs (picture A) between rim and small and big teeth there are some strange 2 thin lines. There are no such of lines on genuine coin. Also there are 2 thin lines on rim upstairs on reverse of your coin: just 2 thin lines on rim (picture B). And there is some strange line between the rim and both: thin and big teeth on reverse of left side. This is not right. Please take a look on picture 5a, see the rim of this YSK 1914 and thin and bigger teeth are composited---they are like match to each other. Of course there is double rim on genuine pieces of YSK 1914 but doesn't look like this.

Summarize, your coin is NOT GENUINE coin. You can still take a risk and send this fatman 1914 to NGC but I wouldn't do this. I would return this coin to seller and ask for refund of my money.

Hey, why don't you buy some coin from me. You wouldn't have to worry + I have good pieces! Please check Buy, Sell and Trade section to find my old chinese coins for sell every moth---every year!:)

KONDi
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Offline r3globe

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2012, 09:52:52 AM »
Hi Kondi, Thank you so much for your help. Your advice is very valuable. I will return the coin to the seller. I will keep checking the coins you have for sale. Thanks again :)

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2012, 05:11:08 AM »
You are always welcome!:)
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Offline arunpkrishnan

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2012, 02:22:48 PM »
Hello.. Can you please tell me the authenticity, variety, rarity of this particular coin? I picked it up from ebay for 62 dollars. I hope its not a fake.

Offline PCGS-ASIA

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2012, 10:34:45 PM »
KONDi:

When I have TIME (lol) I intend to work up the varieties we currently recognize so we can compare.....

I don't want to start with 1914 though!  Too many - last count we recognize about 40 different ones.

I'll try to start with 1921.  Either way, it will be interesting....

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 06:49:35 AM »
Dear arunpkrishnan,

Unfortunately, this is a fake piece:(
Please take a look on a surface of your YSK dollar 1914---obverse. It has some small dots, which looks like grains of sand. About the part of a rim, it looks like someone took a knife and split it into 2 pieces.
On a reverse the rim looks very sharp, which is also not natural. The color of this coin doesn't look right. For me it is silver-plated metal. Did you try to use magnet. If this coin sticks to magnet it is silver-plated metal---very low class fake. Which by the way looks like such of coin for me.
Such of fake should weight 19-22g. I hope you can get your money back from a seller.

Best wishes,

from Shanghai...

KONDi
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Offline marbury518

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2012, 10:22:21 AM »
I just picked these two coins up in Czech Republic. One is the common variety to my untrained eye and the other is the traingle version. Any info on interesting features appreciated. i imagine Kondi and Dragon Dollar might have something to say at the very least. They look pretty good grades but will probably end up sending to NGC. Enjoy.

Offline marbury518

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2012, 03:02:04 AM »
Looks like possible faint circle in left hand quarter of bow but maybe just a shadow.....

Offline dragondollar

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2012, 04:52:13 AM »
The pictures are not high resolution enough to see if this is a weak-O/triangle yuan. For me, I see a regular 1914 YSK dollar and a triangle yuan. Both are in good AU condition.

Offline PCGS-ASIA

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2012, 12:36:46 PM »
The triangle yuan looks like what we call "bold leaves" variety.

Offline marbury518

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2012, 01:37:12 PM »
So is that good or bad? Thanks.......marbury

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2012, 02:21:24 PM »

I would say they are significantly scarcer.

Offline marbury518

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 04:03:43 PM »
A well known dealer in the USA said that although it is a better rare variety the condition isn't great.

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2012, 10:42:34 AM »
Dear marbury518,

I have already answered on your email about those 2 coins on 1st December. But I will repeat what I wrote:

Frist one is common YSK dollar 1914. I didn't find anything special in this coin.

But the second coin is little more rare and worth to bid, see this post and read describtion below picture 12---compare photos.
 
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4460.0

picture 12.

I just picked these two coins up in Czech Republic. One is the common variety to my untrained eye and the other is the traingle version. Any info on interesting features appreciated. i imagine Kondi and Dragon Dollar might have something to say at the very least. They look pretty good grades but will probably end up sending to NGC. Enjoy.
KONDi
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Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)

Offline marbury518

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Re: Fatman dollar 1914-common but rare...
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2012, 08:38:28 AM »
Triangle O up for sale..........1914...........does it look bona fide?

Says cleaned unfortunately.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 08:40:55 AM by marbury518 »