Author Topic: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion  (Read 4052 times)

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Coinslinger

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1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« on: October 06, 2011, 11:28:56 PM »
I consider myself fairly well informed on MOST Modern Chinese issues.... but this one has confounded me.

I recently asked a well known authority on everything Chinese Numismatic about this unusual piece and he told me(without actually seeing the coin in person) that it sounded "made up", which was not very helpful nor reassuring.

The coin is indeed genuine, no doubt.  But I cannot find ANYTHING about it.  I can't find any census/pop. report info for it and I cannot find a single listing for it in any publication or on any website.

I purchased this coin recently in Tacoma, WA. at a SMALL(34 tables) show from an Older Gentleman who specialized in typical pre-1964 U.S. Numismatics. He bought it from a Chinese family in Seattle.

It's an interesting piece.... any help would be much appreciated.

Thank You-
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 11:36:13 PM by Coinslinger »

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 11:25:07 PM »
A member and i were looking at NGC total population for small gold pandas..........we compared them to the NGC pop of the 1995 1/2 oz BU gold panda w/ 1,750 actual mint that recently sold for $27,500........The 95 is part of a master set where the others are not, the 1/10 oz Proof gold pandas not included and several other disagreements but the pop numbers are interesting.......
1995 1/2 oz BU gold panda  $27,500              NGC total pop  58

1987 1/20 oz Sino Japan Tong Tong gold panda                   187
1989 1/10 oz Sino Japan You You       "                                50
1992 1/10 oz Sino Japan 2 cranes        "                              67

1986 1/20 oz Proof gold panda                                          223
1987     "       "          "                                                   269
1988    "        "          "                                                   176
1989    "        "           "                                                  166
1990    "        "           "                                                  169
1991    "        "           "                                                  111
1992    "        "           "                                                   72
1993    "       "            "                                                  117
1994    "       "             "                                                  68

1995 1/2 oz gold panda  $27,500         58 total NGC pop
Winner 1989 1/10 You You                  50  "       "
2nd  1992 1/10 Two Cranes                 67  "       "
3rd   1994 1/20 Proof                         68
4th    1992 1/20 Proof                        72
(1991 & 1993 1/20 Proof had 111 & 117 pop)       

Is the 1989 1/10 You You undervalued and undiscovered?.......any information?.......................

Offline moosician

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 01:33:06 AM »
I think many of the You You could be still in the card holder as issued and not many sent for grading.
The 1992 2 cranes with 3000 mintage could be the undervalued one imo.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 01:46:54 AM »
My take- home lesson from collecting :

When "MANY" collectors are looking for a "few" coins, in a popular series, its a winner.
Especially when availability now is limited due to sparce mintage to begin with, little interest at the time of release, and melting or destruction in jewelry. Ie 1995, 1996, and 1998 gold pandas.

When "FEW" collectors are looking for "few" coins, especially if its a medal, (and medals were largely preserved by collectors at the time as interesting to them) its a loser. So far.  Until that time which collection of medals in themes (and Sino-Japan may be a long time in gaining popular status for the political reasons stated before) gain popularity.  Look at the low mintage 1/2 oz Munich medals - popular at the time, but still not proving to have much investment appreciation currently compared to other 1/2 oz golds, despite relatively low mintages.  Which would you have rather bought last year? A Munich 1/2 oz medal at 2000 mintage for $1,200,  now selling (maybe) for $1,400, or a 2003 1/2 oz gold coin mintage over 25,000 for $1,100, now selling for $3800?   There lies your answer, for now at least.
The verdict is : Medals: not yet.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 06:47:44 AM »
I think many of the You You could be still in the card holder as issued and not many sent for grading.
The 1992 2 cranes with 3000 mintage could be the undervalued one imo.

you see them in cards being auctioned not many have been graded ,i suspect many are in Japan ..I love the medal and have a few are they a huge undiscovered investment ..probably not

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 01:27:34 PM »
Hippanda   :)   or a 2003 1/2 oz gold coin mintage over 25,000 for $1,100, now selling for $3800?   There lies your answer, for now at least.


$3800 ????????????????  that is an old price:):) put an m69 2003 1/2oz up on this board for $4800  I bet a fair amount of money it wont be here for 30 minutes

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 03:51:05 PM »
Peter's new book should have the actual mintage of the You You.    Maybe Peter can chime in here on his opinion of it and hopefully others..........probably not a direct answer but maybe a few hints.........

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2016, 12:53:58 AM »
I see some collector / investors still continually wanting the market to come around to their persistent view/ hope that medals with low mintage by itself should be rewarded by comensurately high prices. The market is not agreeing.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 08:07:25 AM »
 The day ain't over.    In time the medals will pick up.    Expect many new collectors to come on board.   The average citizen/sheeple in the NW is starting to understand the Yuan could be tied to gold and the USD has huge debt/derivatives.............

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2016, 12:16:22 PM »
PF69 You You medals recently sold for $342-$499 on eBay (ID# 122001900161, 121998121578). What does that mean? I don't know because I don't collect them. Exactly!

Best to collect medals whose theme/cultural significance makes sense to you. Collect what you know and like. Or that’s how it used to be!

The hype and gibberish that now surround some of the new age low mintage medals have IMO cast suspicion on them, not necessarily from their cultural perspective but as a consequence of the new sure-bet get-rich-quick coin investment approach they are being posited as.

The line between coin collection and investment tends to get blurry. I don’t believe one should lose money collecting what they like but not all minted products will make you (super) rich. Outperformance by a specific low mintage medal is likely to be a random unpredictable event.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
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Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2016, 02:28:13 PM »
Doesn't this mean opportunity?    Yes the BU are collected for master sets so prices/demand keep rising.     The opportunity is medals that are cheap today.    MA or Germany site had several 1/2 oz gold panda munichs OMP box/coa for about $1,000 each as a collector/dealer notified me.    (I do not own any gold munichs but wish i did)  Should one buy a single 95 1/2 for $27k or buy 27 1/2 gold munichs?.........get it?.....   I got a phone call today from a small collector in the PDX area and he wants out of USD related paper.    He knows how to read/process information and wants to own more Chinese money, mainly MCC.    Many emails say the same.........do not underestimate the upcoming demand for MCC.......

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 02:37:31 PM »
The answer for max appreciation probably lies with neither of those extremes, not the 1995 1/2 nor the under appreciated Munich 1/2s.  Like I believe ARIF has stated most succinctly, look instead for the "next" 1995 1/2.

Such as the 1994, 1996 1/2s.  Yes you could have bought a lot of Munichs for the same price as a 1995 1/2 a month ago, but both would have sat there doing nothing much, while 1994, 1996, and 2003 halves have doubled.
It pays to be only slightly ahead of the market.  You could wait a long time with money wrapped up needlessly in Munichs medals or other medals before they move.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 03:41:28 PM »
This is an interesting topic. I do see these medals and I battle from time to time whether it is real or not. There are too many coins to try to ride with finite resources. I constantly ask myself if this is the route, but given the super low mintages one would really be competing with a very small group of collector/investors. Perhaps they will have their day, but the market is a bit small for me to speculate with medals. I don't know enough about them or why anyone would want to collect them. There could be a market, but I'd rather get on a boat where I knew where I was going vs. waiting for a new trip to start.

The panda series relates to a lot of people so I think its difficult to say ALL MCC will rise as China builds more momentum. When buying/investing 27 '1/2 or 1 1/2 '95, there's opportunity cost. You could get quite a few more other things. I am curious to know what will be the next one though. Mintages of < 300 though, i'm not sure if it'll ever get enough momentum without proper marketing and hyping up. The only way to drive price up is to market the product. Once its sold, unless there's continued products or marketing the price could crash if there isn't a healthy secondary market.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 11:36:21 PM »
This is an interesting topic. I do see these medals and I battle from time to time whether it is real or not. There are too many coins to try to ride with finite resources. I constantly ask myself if this is the route, but given the super low mintages one would really be competing with a very small group of collector/investors. Perhaps they will have their day, but the market is a bit small for me to speculate with medals. I don't know enough about them or why anyone would want to collect them. There could be a market, but I'd rather get on a boat where I knew where I was going vs. waiting for a new trip to start.

The panda series relates to a lot of people so I think its difficult to say ALL MCC will rise as China builds more momentum. When buying/investing 27 '1/2 or 1 1/2 '95, there's opportunity cost. You could get quite a few more other things. I am curious to know what will be the next one though. Mintages of < 300 though, i'm not sure if it'll ever get enough momentum without proper marketing and hyping up. The only way to drive price up is to market the product. Once its sold, unless there's continued products or marketing the price could crash if there isn't a healthy secondary market.

Commemorative coins and medals provide MCC collectors an opportunity to collect more minted products in addition to the yearly mainstream offerings from the Chinese mints. Newbies may feel that they have to buy these and every offering but they are most advised to focus on the silver and gold panda and lunar coins, at least initially. Again, the problem with the modern day non-accidental low mintage medals is the perception (and reality) that some of them have been touted as very efficient investment instruments.

How to find the next “killer” panda coin?:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11913.msg69606#msg69606
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11913.msg69608#msg69608

I am not sure that an above board marketing by a coin producer or purveyor is a problem but “hype” definitely has negative connotations. There is a lot of sensitivity about coin market manipulation. Not kosher!

I believe coins and medals are best left alone to evolve on their own steam.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1989 'You-You' 1/10th oz. Gold Panda Comemmorative Medallion
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 12:08:01 AM »
Commemorative coins and medals provide MCC collectors an opportunity to collect more minted products in addition to the yearly mainstream offerings from the Chinese mints. Newbies may feel that they have to buy these and every offering but they are most advised to focus on the silver and gold panda and lunar coins, at least initially. Again, the problem with the modern day non-accidental low mintage medals is the perception (and reality) that some of them have been touted as very efficient investment instruments.

How to find the next “killer” panda coin?:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11913.msg69606#msg69606
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11913.msg69608#msg69608

I am not sure that an above board marketing by a coin producer or purveyor is a problem but “hype” definitely has negative connotations. There is a lot of sensitivity about coin market manipulation. Not kosher!

I believe coins and medals are best left alone to evolve on their own steam.

Well that is true to an extent, but the Master Sets themselves are hyped and promoted by dealers. MCC is promoted by auction houses. Without basic marketing no one will know about the product.

That's the the thing. The idea that Low Mintage MCC = efficient investment vehicle by default seems a little odd. That's why I mentioned without proper and continued marketing/hype, like the release of the mercury dime and seeing where it is now. The coin will be revisited by the next coin. The problem with the medals is banks or dealers are promoting and at any point any set can be the next thing with proper promotion. It's how business operates, basic advertising to let people know.

I know that its another offering, but other than that I don't see the appeal. It is nice as artwork, but then you ride on the artist. Even then, I don't know enough about the space to drop some cash on it. I am intrigued by it, but from my POV it seems like a huge gamble.