Author Topic: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda  (Read 19709 times)

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Dragons_Are_Silly

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 08:35:20 PM »
I think toning on Chinese silver coins is beautiful, especially toning around the rim. ... The light toning gives it a mystic look and resembles an antique painting. It gives it character and authenticity. An investor might prefer them cleaned, a collector might prefer them exotic looking.

Yes, Agreed, 100% !  

Natural toning In silver coin gives character and beauty.
Like difference between rare postage stamp with ink stamp, vs without.

If old, better to look the part.  Shiny ok too, but makes me think polished and that not as real.

low

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 08:58:32 PM »
Proof coins were struck from polished dies and polished planchet.

Nicely toned old China coins sell extremely well. I don't know if those who bought them are investors or collectors.

I don't think serious collectors or investors like cleaned coins.

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 09:29:34 PM »
I have seen some gorgeously toned modern Chinese coins. Many of them come in shades of pink, purple, and blue that are almost never seen on other modern coins.

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 09:31:48 PM »
Artificially toned?

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 09:38:01 PM »
No, all natural. The best looking one I have ever seen was a super clouded claw god of war & wealth. It was for sale at the time, but I wasn't quick enough to buy it.

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 09:38:48 PM »
Here is my 1995 Yellow River Culture coin set. You can see how beautiful (at least to me) are evenly toned coins. The toning of the coins complements very well with its original velvet interior wine color box. A beautiful Yellow River Culture antique painting theme displayed with these coins would be a nice touch in any living room, enjoyed with a glass of red Chianti wine just to keep the color theme the same. :001_smile:

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 09:48:13 PM »
Thanks.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 10:00:20 PM »
No, all natural. The best looking one I have ever seen was a super clouded claw god of war & wealth. It was for sale at the time, but I wasn't quick enough to buy it.

Look at the different colors from the silver eagles. The articles explains how this happens. That first coin is really something to admire, IMO, considering it was colored by nature.
http://x1974.hubpages.com/hub/American-Silver-Eagle-Coins


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Offline dragondollar

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 10:10:22 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

Fair points, however one day modern coins will become ancient.  :001_smile:

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 10:52:38 PM »
... enjoyed with a glass of red Chianti wine just to keep the color theme the same. :001_smile:

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Mmmm, good idea.  I think I'll pour myself an adult beverage and go look at my coins.  Signing off...

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2012, 04:19:24 PM »
See personally I like some of the toning, like on some Morgans it is incredible, I've even seen some nice Jefferson and Buffalo nickels with what appears to be toning.  But anything silver is going to change color over time, may only be a year, but if it comes in contact with air, there will be a reaction.

I just wished that once they were encapsulated it was a hermetical seal, airtight.  So whatever toning was there stayed that way and whatever may happen to the shiny proof coin has been halted.

The white spots of death on silver is from what I understand, the manufacturing process, but only later do the reveal themselves.  I'm sure someone else can explain it better.

The original toning I have seen on the Chinese coins seems to happen at the rim, and perhaps in 20 more years it will take on the appearance of some Morgan-like toning, but perhaps not as Morgans aren't .999 Silver, they are only 90%.

Here is a picture of a coin I have up on Great Collections with toning, I like it very much and was concerned how much PCGS would deduct for spots or toning or anything related to changes that can occur in Silver.  Also, since I liked it so much I thought of holding it back, but being in such dire straights I figured I could part with it, only Panda I have left is the 2008 silver 1 oz, and some various 1/20 and 1/10 oz gold.

Anyhow here is the coin:


Almost like it is framed, but then it has this cameo quality to it but not the proof shiny background, that comes from polishing the planchet before striking, right?

Anyhow, if all coins coming out of the mint were pristine, there would be no need for a grading service.   Actually had one coin dealer tell me that all proofs were 70s.  Of course it was a shop run by a guy hoping to gouge people by basically stocking it with hooters girls.  Of course the lies rolled off her tongue when I was buying, but when it came to sell, they offered spot for the 2006 Eagle Anniversary Set and were already trying to pick it apart by saying the box was broken because the flap lowered....Ugh just thinking about them make me...


Well enjoy the coin.  But even if toning is not your cup of tea, there are enough Shiny Pandas to go around.  :thumbup:
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Offline GDG's

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2012, 04:31:10 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

I agree. On old Morgans Dollars maybe, but not on newly minted coins. Many Morgans are artificially toned anyway and most people cannot tell. But many, many people love toning so that is part of collecting and a good thing. I really am a Gold collector and have sold most of my silver Morgans to a private collector.

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2012, 04:46:08 PM »
The white spots of death on silver is from what I understand, the manufacturing process, but only later do the reveal themselves.  I'm sure someone else can explain it better.

...

...the proof shiny background, that comes from polishing the planchet before striking, right?

Actually had one coin dealer tell me that all proofs were 70s.

The WSoD are caused by residues left on the planchet after cleaning them in a corrosive rinse. If the corrosive rinse isn't completely removed, it dries and becomes inactive before the coin is struck. Then, when exposed to humidity in the air, it becomes active again and corrodes the coin, leaving a white spot.

The mirror field on a proof coin comes from polishing on the die. Polishing the planchet helps, but the final appearance of the coin depends much more on the die than the planchet.

I'm sure CCF members could come up with a lot of very ugly Chinese proof coins. I've seen some that look like they were dropped before being put into their capsules. Those are definitely not 70's!

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2012, 08:20:39 AM »
Thank you for the information Badon.

By the way do you have a Crystal ball?
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