Author Topic: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda  (Read 19086 times)

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Offline BobW

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A few collectors, especially Registry Set participants, aggressively pursue Panda coins in the ultimate grade of PCGS MS70/PR70.

The exceptionally well made gold and silver 2008 pandas are presently rather easy to either make an MS70 grade by submission directly to PCGS or by purchase from sellers and the following applies primarily to pre-2008 dates.

How best to get that desired 70 grade? Several alternatives come to mind.

1. Buy one.

Assuming PCGS has graded the date sought and assuming money is of limited concern, finding an owner who is willing to consider selling his panda will obviously be the challenge. It is likely best to enable one major panda dealer to pursue the coin(s) for you. Contacting panda registry owners and/or listing your wants on Buy/Sell/Trade message boards such as the PCGS forum are other alternatives.

2. Buy an NGC MS70/PR70 coin.

Be aware that PCGS will not accept crossover submissions which specify a minimum grade of 70. The reason for this is PCGS requires examination of the rim and can only do this by removing the panda from its NGC holder. Submitting the NGC coin with no minimum grade limitation is hence the only alternative. Using this strategy can be costly as almost all NGC 70 coins sell for more than the same coin graded a 69 by PCGS and there is no certainty that the coin once removed from the NGC holder would once again be graded as a 70 example by NGC.

3. Acquire ungraded panda coins.

While ungraded gold proof coins and the silver proof pandas of 1983-1996 can still be found, the chance of finding one which would grade PR70 is a huge longshot especially since PCGS has never granted a PR70 grade to a proof panda.

All proof-like 1989 - 2007 silver pandas are still readily available and most non-proof gold pandas can be located with minimal difficulty. The goal here is to obtain coins which have a chance of being graded MS70. Ideally, before buying any coins, you will have the chance to view the coins in person or have someone do that task for you. If this is not an option, be sure that the coins can be returned to the seller if they are not acceptable.

Conclusion/Opinion

I believe that alternative 3 offers the best chance for obtaining an MS70 panda and that there is very very little chance of obtaining a PR70 panda.

Comparing the low number of pandas that so far have been graded by PCGS to the number minted, I believe that over time many more PCGS MS70s will be made. I also think most of the MS70s will come from coins recently minted. Further, the likely source of those MS70s will be coins acquired from reliable sellers in China where certified panda coins are not yet popular. Having someone who can screen the coins is key. If this is not possible, tell the seller what you are looking for - a coin in the original packaging, well struck, free of any spots or blemishes, etc. Tell the seller if he has any which meet your criteria, that you will purchase a few and if they are acceptable, you will buy more. Also tell the seller, that if he does not have any that presently meet your criteria, to please inform you if he does in the future. If the purchase price is also right, this can be a profitable venture even if the coins are only graded MS68 or MS69.

For uncertified coins located in the USA, I believe the large majority of pre-2008 pandas, have been carefully looked at and if they had a chance of getting an MS68 or MS69 grade they would have already been submitted to a grading service.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 02:46:28 PM by BobW »

qaz

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2008, 10:33:21 PM »
Very useful information.  Thank you!
 :thumbup: :thumbup1: :thumbup:

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 01:15:01 AM »
Maybe I'm a purist, but I prefer coins that are still in their original packaging. Only the original packaging will still have any meaning in a thousand years (this is China we're talking about, 1000 years is nothing). By then, grading services will be merely historical curiosities. The real value is in the original coin. Anyone disagree? I'm interested to hear other opinions.

Offline Jay

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 08:08:32 PM »
The original packaging is made of a soft plastic that degrades over time.  I have seen many early pandas in plastic that has yellowed and even some have started to have a gooey feel when you touch them.  The plastic may also contaminate the coin surface.  At present pre-1990 seems to be the most affected.

It is also more difficult to assess the quality of the coin when it is in the original plastic.  It is also more difficult to discern is a coin is fake.

I like PCGS slabs because they are clear and give a nice view of the coins without distraction.

As far as MS70, I dont believe there is any true meaningful difference between an MS70 and an MS69 in most cases.  My bet is that if you cracked-out a 70 and had it regraded, it would come back as 69 about 90% of the time.

Jay

Offline PDSP

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 10:43:50 AM »
 I have a question for the board that is muCh more in the know than i am.
 
 I have 3 ea 1999 1 oz Serif silver pandas , one of them is a slabbed graded by NGC MS68 SMALL DATE , I am sending it back to NGC to get a Designation Review to a MS68 LARGE DATE SERIF ( $ 10 fee ) It will stay at NGC grade MS68  

 
 The other two are mint double sealed , one of two i think is much better than the graded NGC MS68 ,i think it will grade at MS69 LARGE DATE SERIF (looking at it with x10 eye loop )

 The 3rd mint double sealed should grade at MS68 LARGE DATE SREIF , it looks the same as the already graded MS68 by NGC .

 The fee to have the two mint double sealed 1999 LD SERIF's Graded and slabbed by NGC is $30 each plus $19.70 total shipping for all 3 coins

I guess i am looking for ideas of what to do as far as the double mint sealed 1999 serif's , leave them in the mint double seals or take a chance and have them slabbed ? They may both come back as MS68

As a futher note i have $75 in the already slabbed 99 serif, and $350 in the other two mint double sealed 99 serif's.

I know that i am buying more slabbed coins than none slabbed.

Thanks for any suggestions. Paul

          

  
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 06:52:59 PM by PDSP »

Offline Bimetallic

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2010, 02:00:23 AM »
One thing I have noticed at least with the gold proof and bimetallic pandas is the coins are sometimes smaller than the capsules and slide around,this causes abrasions on the coins.

Also some of them were in boxes with red velvet that had the velvet lose hairs that get all over the capsules and inside onto the coins. I cut my coins out of the plastic packaging to weigh them and get the velvet off. I notice one in packaging had the red velvet inside so you can't even trust the packaging as always being original.


Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 07:04:13 PM »
I have been persuaded that that the original packaging is total garbage, and not worth cherishing for collecting's sake. At worst, they ruin your coins. I've got a few that are coming out of their packaging as soon as I need to move them again.

KonaJim

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 01:17:37 PM »
For me there is still nothing like a double sealed Chinese coin, in the presentation box and with the cardboard box.  I would never disrupt this presentation.  I also feel having been a "collector" of all things rare for 40 years that "original" always receives a premium in price.  For BU coins only in original sealed plastic I would put them in a slab.

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 09:10:55 PM »
The plastics are potentially harmful to some of the coins, and the capsules sometimes don't fit snugly, so the coin slides around inside of it, damaging the mirror finish until it's just scratched up blurry mess. You have to choose which is more important to the value of your coins: The high quality presevation of the coin, or the original mint packaging. Sometimes, it's clearly better to preserve the coin and discard the packaging.

However much the original packaging adds to the value, usually it's not enough to make it worth damaging the coin. Check your coins to see if they're loose in their packaging. If they are, it's a good candidate for removal.

Online PandaCollector

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 11:44:04 AM »
If you are going to slab a coin (which is often a good idea), I recommend photographing or scanning it while its still in its original pouch. This preserves a record of which mint location struck the coin.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

Offline GDG's

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2011, 11:22:38 AM »
One thing I have noticed at least with the gold proof and bimetallic pandas is the coins are sometimes smaller than the capsules and slide around,this causes abrasions on the coins.

Also some of them were in boxes with red velvet that had the velvet lose hairs that get all over the capsules and inside onto the coins. I cut my coins out of the plastic packaging to weigh them and get the velvet off. I notice one in packaging had the red velvet inside so you can't even trust the packaging as always being original.

True but the 2009 UHR Gauden's from the West Point Mint did the same thing. I was quick to remove and send out to have slabbed.

Underbidder

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2011, 03:19:49 PM »
.

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 04:24:18 PM »
I have been persuaded that that the original packaging is total garbage, and not worth cherishing for collecting's sake. At worst, they ruin your coins. I've got a few that are coming out of their packaging as soon as I need to move them again.

I have a MS 69 Maple Leaf which has developed a white spot of death and this mistlike haze around the edge since it has been in encapsulated in an NGC holder, dunno how.

The downfall of double layer original mint packaging is that one type of plastic can mask defects from on angle and the hard case inside can make them completely invisible.  Thank fully only a couple of the coins I knew I would grade low did, 64?  MS66 I thought I had 1 or 2 but 64? Just that packaging can fool ya.

How do Panda collectors feel about toning?

Offline GDG's

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 05:36:26 PM »
"Real Toning on an old Morgan can be beautiful. Toning on a CMC, UGH! White spots of death I am not familiar with at this time but the majority of my coins are Gold. I do know that NCS preserving and NGC slabbing now cost so much I begin to realize is it worth it?

People should think long and hard before they spend this kind of money on a silver coin worth say $500. Will you recoup it when you sell it? What if you don't get the grade you expect? Even examining  the coin doesn't guarantee the grade you will receive. A cost analysis on what you expect the grading service to give you, the amount you pay the grading service, and the price you expect to receive for the coin are all variables you must examine.

After all this I prefer buying already graded coins for my personal collection. I do prefer PCGS, unlike most CMC collectors, but believe this will change once PCGS begins operations in Hong Kong. The Chinese are pretty sophisticated and realize that PCGS has been the premier grading service in America for a long time.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 06:43:35 PM »
"Real Toning on an old Morgan can be beautiful. Toning on a CMC, UGH!


I think toning on Chinese silver coins is beautiful, especially toning around the rim. I have the 1995 set of the Yellow River Culture set and if I remember right, some coins have light toning on the edges of the rim. The light toning gives it a mystic look and resembles an antique painting. It gives it character and authenticity. An investor might prefer them cleaned, a collector might prefer them exotic looking.

exchange


Dragons_Are_Silly

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 08:35:20 PM »
I think toning on Chinese silver coins is beautiful, especially toning around the rim. ... The light toning gives it a mystic look and resembles an antique painting. It gives it character and authenticity. An investor might prefer them cleaned, a collector might prefer them exotic looking.

Yes, Agreed, 100% !  

Natural toning In silver coin gives character and beauty.
Like difference between rare postage stamp with ink stamp, vs without.

If old, better to look the part.  Shiny ok too, but makes me think polished and that not as real.

low

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 08:58:32 PM »
Proof coins were struck from polished dies and polished planchet.

Nicely toned old China coins sell extremely well. I don't know if those who bought them are investors or collectors.

I don't think serious collectors or investors like cleaned coins.

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 09:29:34 PM »
I have seen some gorgeously toned modern Chinese coins. Many of them come in shades of pink, purple, and blue that are almost never seen on other modern coins.

low

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 09:31:48 PM »
Artificially toned?

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 09:38:01 PM »
No, all natural. The best looking one I have ever seen was a super clouded claw god of war & wealth. It was for sale at the time, but I wasn't quick enough to buy it.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 09:38:48 PM »
Here is my 1995 Yellow River Culture coin set. You can see how beautiful (at least to me) are evenly toned coins. The toning of the coins complements very well with its original velvet interior wine color box. A beautiful Yellow River Culture antique painting theme displayed with these coins would be a nice touch in any living room, enjoyed with a glass of red Chianti wine just to keep the color theme the same. :001_smile:

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low

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 09:48:13 PM »
Thanks.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 10:00:20 PM »
No, all natural. The best looking one I have ever seen was a super clouded claw god of war & wealth. It was for sale at the time, but I wasn't quick enough to buy it.

Look at the different colors from the silver eagles. The articles explains how this happens. That first coin is really something to admire, IMO, considering it was colored by nature.
http://x1974.hubpages.com/hub/American-Silver-Eagle-Coins


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Offline dragondollar

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 10:10:22 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

Offline exchange

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

Fair points, however one day modern coins will become ancient.  :001_smile:

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 10:52:38 PM »
... enjoyed with a glass of red Chianti wine just to keep the color theme the same. :001_smile:

exchange

Mmmm, good idea.  I think I'll pour myself an adult beverage and go look at my coins.  Signing off...

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2012, 04:19:24 PM »
See personally I like some of the toning, like on some Morgans it is incredible, I've even seen some nice Jefferson and Buffalo nickels with what appears to be toning.  But anything silver is going to change color over time, may only be a year, but if it comes in contact with air, there will be a reaction.

I just wished that once they were encapsulated it was a hermetical seal, airtight.  So whatever toning was there stayed that way and whatever may happen to the shiny proof coin has been halted.

The white spots of death on silver is from what I understand, the manufacturing process, but only later do the reveal themselves.  I'm sure someone else can explain it better.

The original toning I have seen on the Chinese coins seems to happen at the rim, and perhaps in 20 more years it will take on the appearance of some Morgan-like toning, but perhaps not as Morgans aren't .999 Silver, they are only 90%.

Here is a picture of a coin I have up on Great Collections with toning, I like it very much and was concerned how much PCGS would deduct for spots or toning or anything related to changes that can occur in Silver.  Also, since I liked it so much I thought of holding it back, but being in such dire straights I figured I could part with it, only Panda I have left is the 2008 silver 1 oz, and some various 1/20 and 1/10 oz gold.

Anyhow here is the coin:


Almost like it is framed, but then it has this cameo quality to it but not the proof shiny background, that comes from polishing the planchet before striking, right?

Anyhow, if all coins coming out of the mint were pristine, there would be no need for a grading service.   Actually had one coin dealer tell me that all proofs were 70s.  Of course it was a shop run by a guy hoping to gouge people by basically stocking it with hooters girls.  Of course the lies rolled off her tongue when I was buying, but when it came to sell, they offered spot for the 2006 Eagle Anniversary Set and were already trying to pick it apart by saying the box was broken because the flap lowered....Ugh just thinking about them make me...


Well enjoy the coin.  But even if toning is not your cup of tea, there are enough Shiny Pandas to go around.  :thumbup:
G

Offline GDG's

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2012, 04:31:10 PM »
I don't think toning is valued on modern coins. Modern coins were never made for circulation, therefore toning is unnatural. Their natural state is pristine, straight out of the mint. However, an ancient coin natural state is to be marked by the decades it went through - a pristine old coin looks unnatural. So, toning is valued for old coins. Most collectors feel that way, usually. Investor may prefer their older coins to be pristine as well.

I agree. On old Morgans Dollars maybe, but not on newly minted coins. Many Morgans are artificially toned anyway and most people cannot tell. But many, many people love toning so that is part of collecting and a good thing. I really am a Gold collector and have sold most of my silver Morgans to a private collector.

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2012, 04:46:08 PM »
The white spots of death on silver is from what I understand, the manufacturing process, but only later do the reveal themselves.  I'm sure someone else can explain it better.

...

...the proof shiny background, that comes from polishing the planchet before striking, right?

Actually had one coin dealer tell me that all proofs were 70s.

The WSoD are caused by residues left on the planchet after cleaning them in a corrosive rinse. If the corrosive rinse isn't completely removed, it dries and becomes inactive before the coin is struck. Then, when exposed to humidity in the air, it becomes active again and corrodes the coin, leaving a white spot.

The mirror field on a proof coin comes from polishing on the die. Polishing the planchet helps, but the final appearance of the coin depends much more on the die than the planchet.

I'm sure CCF members could come up with a lot of very ugly Chinese proof coins. I've seen some that look like they were dropped before being put into their capsules. Those are definitely not 70's!

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2012, 08:20:39 AM »
Thank you for the information Badon.

By the way do you have a Crystal ball?
G

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2012, 09:10:23 AM »
I agree. On old Morgans Dollars maybe, but not on newly minted coins. Many Morgans are artificially toned anyway and most people cannot tell. But many, many people love toning so that is part of collecting and a good thing. I really am a Gold collector and have sold most of my silver Morgans to a private collector.

Maybe the newly renovated Australian Mint can give you your perfect coins with it's robots doing the coining.  As far as the Morgans, that's toning on on Uncirculated coins,  I'm sure you well know no Collector/Investor type would want circulated coins, which is when they really show their age, who handled, this?  Did Clint  Eastwood get it in a Christmas card and buy a comic book, etc...

I on the other hand have a collection of Buffalo nickels in strictly circulated condition, fortunately, or unfortunately, there are some rarities in there that are quite valuable even in their circulated condition, it is a complete set.  I started it with my dad while I was a child and he passed in 95, so I couldn't sell it.  It was hard enough to have to sell the jewelry he gave me, but I rationalized that by saying I don't wear it anymore and it may never be worth more than it is now, this was in April (and guess what it actually is worth more now--duh!) and I have pictures.  Which I suppose I could do with the nickels if I had too.

As far as Modern coins, if I order a Mint Set or a Proof Set from the current year, I want it to look perfect, do they?  Rarely, and this is straight from the mint (US).

Do I want toning on a 5 year old set?  Not particularly but if the aesthetics are pleasing then it is acceptable.

On a 20 year old coin, apparently even left in (the case of Chines Pandas) its double factory sealing toning can occur.

Hey maybe sealing them in one of those vacuum packed food savers?  Or is their wrapper harmful?  Oh I know a canning jar, vacuum packed for your freshness, but then again glass melts at such a low temperature, but I don't think it is reactive with metal.

So I guess I am just all over the place, accept the coin on its merits not necessarily the holder, box, etc.  But does it provide you with what you are looking for, if it has flaws are they acceptable, would it fit the graded range (if graded) for the type...etc...

I just wish the grading companies would say toning is acceptable on these types and year coins, but not these, or toning or other silver reactive related occurrences on a coin do not affect the grade. 

What I do not like and wouldn't accept is the horrible sh*t spots on gold coins, unless you are going for the Little Orphan Annie faced collection or filling a gap temporarily...

Again, just my opinion.

Oh, which reminds me back to the title topic, how can you find a 70 ungraded coin and assure it will come back that way?  I've have several which looked flawless under 20x magnification, obverse, reverse and the third side, but came back 69, yet one where I felt there was an obvious flaw came back 70.  Just luck?  Laziness?  Repetition?  Because if you could automate a computer program to scan a coin, compare it to those in a database of the same year and type, then give it a grade based on it's physical appearance, with a printout of the "flawed" areas.  Then have a human look at it for other qualities that may distinguish it, and verify that maybe one of the flaws is a new variety and not a flaw, maybe you might have something, lower grading time, cheaper grading...

I dunno maybe not...  I know the capsules are sonically sealed, but they can be unsealed, so I'd like to see not only a label with the grade that looks sorta like a Chinese cert, or a form of currency, but a tamper proof seal.  The typing on paper isn't cutting anymore, not for these prices.  And conservation of Silver coins is a good idea, but OMG, the coin didn't cost that much.  So the only way I can get a 70 is to pay for it after it has been graded and encapsulated, but I am still taking the chance that some unscrupulous person swapped coins or labels.  I was better off searching until I found  what may be a 70 and then sending it off for grading, but then they base it on how much it's worth, how quickly do you want it, etc. etc.  Makes my head spin.

Sorry this ended up being so long.  I do like that PCGS had put the name of the minting facility on some of the Pandas, even though they got one of mine wrong, shouldn't they have Peter's book on file, I heard they had an extensive library.  I'll even send them a copy and after grading all of my coins, had they kept the out seals they would have had the designs of the various mints, unless the auction house removed the coins from the plastic before sending for grading.

Shutting up now.  Silver Pandas end tonight Pacific time on great collections for those interested.  I'll update post.

Was still nice to hear everyone's opinion on things numismatic, just as I was about to give up because I had worked so hard on those Pandas, was still working on finishing, but that was the box marked NOT FOR SALE. :(

Hopefully some of you all will be getting them and can enjoy them, and they won't be going to some cutthroat dealers,  if only I had thought of coming here a month ago when the listings moved from the Eagles to the Pandas.  UGH.  Well I do know one person on here was able to obtain a coin and he was pleased, I don't think he received it yet, but he shouldn't be any less pleased once it arrives.

Be Well,
G

Offline badon

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »
Yes, yes I do :)

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2012, 04:47:12 PM »
 :biggrin:

Offline 94opalmtx

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2012, 06:54:49 PM »
I now only purchase slabbed coins for 3 reasons.
1. Less fraud
2. Safer to handle
3. I fear degrading in OMP

That being said, I can see why some prefer OMP, which is great since we can all collect what we like best

Offline glgehman001

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2012, 08:55:40 PM »
I's startin' me a store.  Got no capital, very little in the way of inventory, but I got the name the licenses and the website, need a logo.

Trying to convince my brother's rich friends, he has 2 that are sick rich, they would play these MMO's and buy stuff in the game, damn if I'd only started selling virtual goods, because you know how impatient people can be, and the more that you buy the better your character, faster you level, more rare stuff you get, etc. and if you can't buy the stuff you want with gold in game you can pay someone to play for you...

And people had bitched forever of buying a $15 CD for 2 good songs, so I was like sell the songs for 99cents and this was in the 80's, instead I went on my merry way and played Zork instead of learning to program.

Good thing about this business, aside from the low product margin, is that if these guys do give me the cash and I utterly fail, I probably will have enough merchandise to get them their original investment back.  But I am not holding my breath, just trying to keep my head above water right now, still haven't found permanent work since May 2011 and the auction proceeds are long gone, and I think we are worse off now...  How does $10,000 on $100,000 for 12 months sound?  Nah, they'd never go for it, don't think I could ask anyways.

Oooo a coconut fell down on the opposite side of my deserted island.   Yay!

Happy Obama, help those that never helped themselves but ignore those who can but have fallen on hard times or those who can't work....  Argh Tangent.

To coins, how do you feel about hydrosonic type jewelry cleaners?  I played with one the other day, the copper coin didn't come all the way clean, but it rainbow tarnished like crazy, and it feels like it lost all its luster.

I'm still an advocate for not cleaning coins, but I started out a while back with roman coins, and basically they looked like little discs of dirt, so they had to be cleaned, and the there was a type of wax (forget the name) you used to preserve them, supposedly it was invented  by the British Museum, then sold and the formula changed ..... yadda yadda.

How's things out in the Chinese coin world?  Oh speaking of which the one coin that didn't grade was a 1996 Panda, and as soon as I looked at it I knew it was fake, it was too shiny, and that waffle is because they put more plating on than usual (I assume), cause when I first tested it came back as silver, then I filed away some of the surface, and I had to dig a pit, copper colored metal underneath.  All the markings were right, the size the weight, exact.  But 1996 Pandas rarely shine like the fields surrounding the temple on 2010,2011 coins.

I'll take some photos for you Badon if you are interested.

G

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2014, 06:13:48 AM »
A few collectors, especially Registry Set participants, aggressively pursue Panda coins in the ultimate grade of PCGS MS70/PR70.

To those people, it might be an endless chase.

Look at population reports, MS/PR70 coins are like 1 or 2 pcs only. Some coins/medals don't even exist in perfect 70, the best grade is like 69 and below.

Even if available for sale, perfect 70 will cost a 5-digit price tag for really rare pandas.

However amazing that alot of low-numismatic-value coins (like American Eagle or the 2014 Smithsonian panda medal) can easily get perfect 70 grade. For those LNV coins, even if they are of 70+ grade, I won't even buy them.

Offline Panda Capture

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Re: Brief Review of Alternatives for Obtaining a PCGS MS70/PR70 Panda
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2014, 06:44:23 PM »
Per PCGS website they do have a 1987 P - 70.