Author Topic: PCGS certification number patterns  (Read 5230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 10:27:57 PM »
I just checked, and it looks like you're right. Thanks for the correction. So, it appears NGC sequentializes invoice numbers as well as coin numbers.

It looks like PCGS just uses one sequential number, without invoice numbers, but I'm not sure about that.

Anyone know for sure?

Offline comeaux

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
  • Karma: 63
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 10:40:21 PM »
Anyone know for sure?
It is correct and you can even check it yourself …
 
Just go to NGC and use option to submit coins, when the blank invoice opens just close or cancel it and open another … it will be in sequential order to your previous invoice number or maybe one number higher if someone else manages to open a new invoice between you opening the first and second invoice.

I know this is correct because I have done multiple submissions on separate invoices …

I’m sure many others can attest to this as well …

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 11:02:09 PM »
Thanks! I understood that about NGC from your previous response. My question is about PCGS numbers.

Offline 123panda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: 0
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 10:34:28 AM »
I just looked at the only PCGS submission I ever made, they are Modern US coins.  Gold Buffalos and Platinum Eagles.
With PCGS you have to look up the Number of the coin you are submitting, Every coin type, Year, denomination or size, Proof or Unc. each coin has it's own number, that is the first 6 digits, I am not sure what the next 2 no's are, then 8 more numbers that seem to be the order of the grading number assigned to the coin.  Those seem to be assigned in the order of grading. Of those 8 numbers only the last two changed in my order, but I only submitted 7 coins and the numbers are all in a row(sequencial). But I noticed on my Platinum Eagles they only show the last 8 numbers, they do not even show the number they made me look up in order to be submitted, also the next 2 digits are omitted.  I guess they decided to put it only in the Barcode. Here is an example 414465.70/18364559.  The first 6 digits note the coin, not sure the next 2 digits, then the next 8 digits I believe are the number of the coin graded.  The Platinum # is 18364565. I had them graded 1 yr ago, so it kind of agrees with the claim that they have graded 20,000,000 coins or 8 digits.

NGC sends out forms to submit manually also, so I believe that is the beginning of the number with the last 3 being the number of the submitted coins(meaning you could submit up to 999 with the same order number) with that order.  But I have only submitted thru NCS so I see mine also beginning with a 5,which is the manual NCS submission numbered form, then changing to a NGC number starting with a 3.  I have seen people submit over 150 coins with the same prefix #.  I personally do not like that because people can see all the coins you submitted with an order thru NGC or NCS.  I find it interesting to look at other peoples, but do not really want them looking at mine, it shows all the grades given too.
123 panda   

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 08:44:01 PM »
According to this:

http://www.pcgs.com/barcode.html

if your barcode is 414465.70/18364559, then the .70 would mean you have a 70 grade on the coin.

Also, it appears PCGS is not grading in customer-submitted lots like NGC. Instead, PCGS assigns each coin a unique sequential number. That allows them to take all the coins of a same type submitted during an entire month, and grade them all together, so the best coins get the best grades, and the worst coins get the worst grades.

That explains why grading is slower at PCGS than NGC, and also why PCGS grading has a better reputation for consistency. Actually, I grade things myself the PCGS way. This little discovery makes me like PCGS a lot more. I still prefer NGC, but if PCGS ever fixes their holder, I might have to start using them.

Like you said, another advantage is that you can't figure out who owns which coins in the PCGS way, like you can with NGC. For example, lets say everybody knows I own a particular rare coin with NGC number 1234567-001. Then, someone can use that info to figure out what other coins I own, just by checking 1234567-002, 1234567-003, etc.

That's another score in favor of PCGS for both privacy, and objective independent grading. Still, not enough to compensate for their other shortcomings compared to NGC.

This info is very helpful. Thanks! I'm going to put it to good use.

Offline 123panda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: 0
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 12:36:50 AM »
Just to Clarify.  Yes, you were correct, the coin did grade pr70, but it's only a 1 oz 2009 Gold Buffalo, so it should have. I sent 3 - 2010's got back 2 pr70's and 1 pr69. Those were all still sealed in the boxes, so they did not steal my better coins either.  I also sent 3 Platinum 1 oz Eagles, within the first 30 days, so to save shipping cost and reduce the package size I opened them before sending them.  I got 1 pr70 and 2 pr69's. I could not see any difference in them, took them to a coin show and ask a couple of dealers if they could see any difference.  They got they loupes out and both said they could not see anything that would cause these pr69 not to be 70's.  That is why the grading still remains a little bit of a mystery to me.  I bought a nice loup from www.8edwin.com.au, it is a metal fold up and was about $36 + shipping(wish I had bought more of them as they would make very nice gifts, they claim it's a 10x, here is a link to it http://www.8edwin.com.au/index.php?controller=product&path=26&product_id=22   it is real nice and it makes most nice coins looks bad especial ms US coins, it seems over critical.  What do they graders use?  I heard on the new ones they take pictures and blow them up and that's how the choose the 70's over the 69's based on the planchet, that is what the guy from NGC said recently, Mr. Salsbury I think.
Back to the numbering, so the first 6 digits are the coin designation, the next 2 the grade, the the next 8, I believe are sequential but they assign them as they come in the door, like you says customer submitted lots.  So my seven were numbered all in a row.  And like I say they left off the first 8 digits on the Platinum, all of my coins have barcodes.
Another strange thing is I have opened the blue PCGS box(which they gave me for free for shipping purposes) once in a while before going to a show. But when I decided to sell my US coins instead of my Pandas, I looked at all of these 7 coins with my loup and these all look perfect, except the pr70 Platinum eagle has white spots now, so both of the pr69's look better than the pr70, how is that! That's PCGS.
Oh, and I'll bet you use NGC's numbering system to good use, that is why I hate it.
123panda
 

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 12:47:00 AM »
For about the same money on that loupe, you could get a Belomo, which is much better:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=934.0

Offline Panda Halves

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
  • Karma: 45
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 08:36:21 AM »
Work smarter not harder  :001_smile:
http://www.cointalk.com/t30781/

Offline 123panda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: 0
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2011, 09:07:33 AM »
Amazing, that truly was working smarter.  I see no counterdiction of any of the info we came up with.  The random beginning number for each day is very surprising, but if that is what they say, it probably is true.  PGCS truly wants to be unpredictable, so only PCGS know when a Coin was graded.  Whatever works for them, as long as it helps stops counterfeitng of Slabs, is fine with me.
For a person who specializes in certain coins, it would make it easy for them to spots bad numbers to the left and the grade # as well.  The rest is just record keeping and computer power.

Very good find Panda Halves.

123panda

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2011, 12:54:54 PM »
Thanks Panda Halves.