Author Topic: PCGS certification number patterns  (Read 4866 times)

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Offline badon

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PCGS certification number patterns
« on: September 13, 2011, 09:20:35 PM »
I don't collect PCGS coins, but a lot of people do. Can someone please explain to me the PCGS certification number patterns? It looks like they're all sequential, is that correct? NGC randomizes theirs, does PCGS do the same thing?

Offline comeaux

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 10:32:19 PM »
NGC randomizes theirs, does PCGS do the same thing?

From what I have experienced NGC/NCS does not randomize their orders, they are in order of submission.

What I see when I submit to NGC is you enter your coins on an invoice which is numbered with seven digits such as #2766787. If you submit 10 coins on this order then their certification number will start with the first coin 2766787-001, 2766787-002, 2766787-003, etc.
 
If I make several submissions on different invoices simultaneously then the certifications would fall in order such as 2766787, 2766788, 2766789, etc.

If I submit to NCS first then typically the invoice will start with a #5 such as #5400373 but after it is conserved at NCS and transferred to NGC it will be reassigned a new number for certification that typically starts with a #3 such as #3550271.

But to go back to the original statement badon, I don’t think NGC randomizes as I have seen multiple submissions be sequential from my experience. 

Offline badon

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 10:44:32 PM »
I just checked, and it looks like you're right. Thanks for the correction. So, it appears NGC sequentializes invoice numbers as well as coin numbers.

It looks like PCGS just uses one sequential number, without invoice numbers, but I'm not sure about that.

Offline comeaux

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 10:47:59 PM »
I don't collect PCGS coins,
Oh yea and I agree 100% !!!

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 12:47:01 AM »
I don't collect PCGS coins, but a lot of people do.
According to CCF poll 4 out of 51 is a pretty abysmal sub 8%.
I wouldn't call this a lot of people : )
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3689.0
I just submitted the only PCGS coin I ever owned for a NCS/NGC crossover.
Good riddance!

Offline Gilmore

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 02:34:00 AM »
Quote
I don't collect PCGS coins

Why not?

Offline badon

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 03:17:54 PM »
They're behind NGC in almost every area. The only area where the PCGS owners say they beat NGC is in their consistency of grading. But, that point is moot, in my opinion because the holders are not good enough to preserve the coins, and prevent them from DE-grading.

Also, NGC grades more coins than PCGS, they also do conservation with NCS, which is important for Chinese coins. NGC will also grade virtually any size coin, and they'll grade far more types of coins than PCGS.

In other words, except for a few special cases, NGC is by far the better choice.

The few special cases where some people prefer PCGS is in high-end coins valued over $10,000 in gold, platinum, or palladium, where the inadequate holder is less of a concern. Even then, that's not good enough reason for me to want to own PCGS coins, because the inadequate holder still allows dirt from air pollution to accumulate on the coins. And, NGC's edge view holders allow you to see more of the coin.

That's why almost everyone chooses NGC, and only a small fraction of people prefer PCGS. The people that prefer PCGS probably prefer them mostly for personal reasons, such as a high regard for their grading consistency, or an aesthetic preference for their clear holder.

In short, there's a lot of reasons to like NGC, but only a few reasons to like PCGS. If any of those few reasons are very important to you, then you may want to join the minority of people who prefer PCGS over NGC.

PCGS is an important grading service, and very highly respected, even if most people would rather have NGC. ANACS is another one to consider, if you want to look for alternatives to NGC and/or PCGS.

Other than NGC, PCGS, and ANACS (in that order), I don't think there are any other competitive grading services worth considering.

Offline Obsidian

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 04:31:41 PM »
I personally like NGC better but the facts are, PCGS has a much bigger foothold in the US coin market.  At least in the US PCGS coins sell for a slightly higher premium over NGC.

Now the Chinese coin market seems to be a little different.  NGC was more proactive with this market so they have a large foothold compared to PCGS.  However, I also know that several of the larger dealers in this market do actually charge MORE for PCGS graded coins.  Do prices on eBay reflect this?  I don't know but I know that both Rare Panda Coins, Modern Chinese coins, etc charge more for PCGS coins.

I personally own a mixture of both coins because I bought many of them slabbed.  At least for my gold coins I have not bothered to cross them over from PCGS to NGC.  I don't know if I will either.

PCGS has the reputation of being stricter on grading.  That is why PCGS coins demand a premium over NGC coins.  That means if you have a PCGS coin in 69 you know it will be a nice coin.  Theoretically a PCGS 68 could be as nice or nicer than an a marginal NGC 69.  I don't know if this is really the way things are but that is the way the US coin market sees it.

Again, i personally like the NGC holder better but I can see the appeal of PCGS if you have been a long time US coin collector.  PCGS clearly has had a better reputation.  Now if the only coins you have collected have been Modern Chinese coins then you could likely see things differently.  As the poll numbers suggest.  Chinese moderns coin collectors are somewhat biased towards NGC.  If you did the same poll on a US coin forum, likely PCGS would have a relatively large lead.

Offline badon

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 04:41:39 PM »
Excellent summary of the facts Obsidian, thank you. The Chinese coin dealers that send coins to PCGS usually send in their best ones, to cater to buyers who THINK PCGS is stricter in their grading, and are willing to pay more for them. Whether PCGS really is stricter, I'm not 100% sure of that.

Either way, when some dealers send their best coins to PCGS, it will certainly become obvious that when you buy from those dealers, the PCGS coins will look better - at least until the air pollution accumulates on them :)

Offline badon

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 04:43:05 PM »
By the way, I think if PCGS would simply improve their holder, they would be much more competitive. The bad holder is what's biasing people away from PCGS, because it doesn't matter they're better in every way, if their holders lead to damaged coins. Once they get a good holder, then it will be easier to make a fair comparison of PCGS vs. NGC.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 05:02:05 PM »
Three steps to the best of both worlds:

Step one: buy nice graded PCGS coin
Step two: submit PCGS coin to NGC for crossover
Step three: save invoice

PCGS certified and NGC certified coin in the best holder with documented and recorded identifying registry crossover data.

Offline badon

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 05:05:27 PM »
Wow, great tip, thanks for that!

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 05:19:09 PM »
Also,
As I understand it... on the off chance that the coin doesn't need NCS you can direct submit to NGC with a "minimum crossover" specification.
If your coin won't cross at the minimum requirement into a NGC holder then you get it back in an the original PCGS slab.
*You're minimum must be the minimum on the slab so you can't specify minimum 69 on a 68 coin etc...
The key thing to remember with "minimum crossover" is that theoretically an undergraded 68 could cross as a 69... an undergraded 69 could cross as a 70 etc...
*NGC won't accept 70 coins as crossovers.

So, from an investment standpoint this is really a zero risk with possible high return scenario provided that you prefer NGC holders.

Offline comeaux

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 05:25:53 PM »
Yes Panda Halves you make a good point as I do this rather frequently but on a side note I would not hold your breath hoping for an "upgrade" as after numerous "crossovers" the best I ever came out with was an even swap from 68 to 68 or 69 to 69 ...

I have never been lucky enough to go from a 68 to a 69 ... 

Maybe it's just me but I think that would happen very infrequently or never  :001_smile:

But the crossover recommendation is a very good one !

Offline pandayo

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Re: PCGS certification number patterns
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 05:38:14 PM »
delete - answered
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 05:45:54 PM by pandayo »