Author Topic: Bimetal and Gilded/Plated Silver Pandas (Read 21994 times)

pandamania · « **on:** August 07, 2011, 02:12:58 PM »

What makes the silver panda series of coins/medals so interesting is the variety of issues minted.There have been several subsets with unique appeal and beautiful designs i.e. Munichs, Colored Proofs, Expos and Hong Kongs. What truly distinguishes the silver pandas from gold regular issues, platinum and palladium pandas is the use of gold combined with silver to provide perhaps the most beautiful of all pandas, the bimetallic and gilded/plated silver panda series.

The process started in 1990 with a gold centered coin/medal bordered by silver. The bimetallic panda lasted until 1997. There have been 21 varieties of these coins (technically including 3 medals) issued during that time. All have exceptionally low mintages and big demand. These include:

Year   Denom.   Mintage
1990   50Y   2000
1990   1/2oz+1/5oz   2000
1991   25Y   10000
1991   1/4oz+1/8oz   2000
1992   10Y   2000
1993   25Y   2500
1994   10Y   3000
1994   25Y   2500
1995   10Y   2000
1995   25Y   2000
1995   50Y   2000
1995   500Y   199
1996   10Y   2500
1996   25Y   2500
1996   50Y   2500
1996   500Y   199
1996 1/4OZ+1/8OZ Munich 1500
1997   10Y   2800
1997   25Y   2800
1997   50Y   2800
1997   500Y   199

The 1996 Munich Metal is the only bimetallic Munich ever issued. An interesting observation is that in the years 1990 and 1991 China issued Proof Hong Kong Expo (the only Hong Kong bimetals) with identical dimensions and metal content in denominated (coin) and non denominated (medal) varieties. As with the non bimetallic Hong Kongs the mint was in effect saying that the only significant difference between a "coin" and a "medal" is a virtually meaningless number on a "coin" (the real practical difference between the two is that medals have more varied and interesting obverses than coins).

Starting in 1996 the mint began to transition from bimetallic silver pandas into gilded/plated silver pandas and the issuance of bimetal silver pandas ceased after 1997. Gilded/plated silver pandas also stand out as interesting and beautiful variations. Thus far there have been 12 coins in the series, 8 commemorating the Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou Expos, 1998 Aerospace Exhibit, 2002 20th Anniversary of Chinese Gold Coins, 2005 Industrial and Commercial Bank and the 2008 BJ Banknote with the following mintages:

Year Coin Mintage
1996 Beijing 20000
1997 Shanghai 30000
1998 Aerospace 50000
1998 Beijing 30000
1999 Beijing 40000
2000 Guangzhou 40000
2002 20th 6000
2004 Beijing 40000
2005 Ind/Coml 100000
2005 Beijing 30000
2006 Beijing 20000
2008 Banknote 20000

Because of their appeal, attractiveness and beauty the bimetallics have had some impressive gains the last few years. The gilded/plated varieties have overall had "somewhat moderate" gains from a panda perspective. It would seem likely that in the long run both bimetallic and gild/plated pandas will be driven much higher.

badon · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2011, 02:14:29 PM »

Great information writeup!

Underbidder · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2011, 02:21:35 PM »

I suspect the 1991 25 Yuan mintage to be overstated, 10,000 seems way too high compared to their availability, plus they seemed most often paired with the Hong Kong Medal. Plus the Mintage for the 1990 coin and medal were identical at 2,000. Just makes sense that it'd be 2,000 as well. Maybe a mint typo? But just a suspicion, anyone have any solid info one way or the other?

pandamania · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2011, 02:30:03 PM »

Quote from: Underbidder on August 07, 2011, 02:21:35 PM

I suspect the 1991 25 Yuan mintage to be overstated, 10,000 seems way too high compared to their availability, plus they seemed most often paired with the Hong Kong Medal. Plus the Mintage for the 1990 coin and medal were identical at 2,000. Just makes sense that it'd be 2,000 as well. Maybe a mint typo? But just a suspicion, anyone have any solid info one way or the other?

This figure is from both Peter`s and Cheng`s books and one other source. it looks out of line to me too since all other Hong kong Bimetalics had mintages of 2000.

adamc4 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:02:37 PM »

Thanks for the info.

Underbidder · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2011, 04:45:00 PM »

The last one that sold was a steal. By a crafty buyer who I'm sure is still laughing.

fractalfate · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2011, 12:45:16 AM »

No love for the panda lunar bimetallics? These should be on the list too!

badon · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2011, 01:09:28 AM »

I don't think those are official. If I remember correctly, they're actually altered genuine coins.

pandamania · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2011, 02:52:57 AM »

Quote from: gasman034 on August 08, 2011, 12:45:16 AM

No love for the panda lunar bimetallics? These should be on the list too!

The list included coins that were exclusively panda. The silver lunar/panda has dual citizenship.

Underbidder · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2011, 03:01:19 AM »

Well and tactfully put.

PandaCollector · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2011, 07:09:19 PM »

Quote from: pandamania on August 07, 2011, 02:30:03 PM

This figure is from both Peter`s and Cheng`s books and one other source. it looks out of line to me too since all other Hong kong Bimetalics had mintages of 2000.

I agree that the actual mintage must have been closer to 2,000 than to 10,000. There was no market at that time for 10,000 proof Pandas, much less bimetallic coins that some numismatists felt were cheap gimmicks. I hope one of the researchers at the China Mint will eventually publish more accurate mintage figures for proof Pandas.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

MrOrganic · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2011, 07:35:24 PM »

Quote from: Underbidder on August 07, 2011, 04:45:00 PM

The last one that sold was a steal. By a crafty buyer who I'm sure is still laughing.

Hello UB

You speaking of the one that went for $2025???

Underbidder · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2011, 07:45:38 PM »

Yup. For a 69- good price for 2k Mintage.

davidt3251 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2011, 12:01:52 AM »

Yeah. The one time I dont use esnipe and leave my bid hanging at $2000. For want of $25 bucks.

adamc4 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2011, 10:29:17 PM »

Yeah, that 1991 1/4 Oz. Gold Panda Bimetal that went for $2025 was a solid $2500 coin, maybe more. 1994 1/4 Oz. Gold Panda Bimetal coins with a higher mintage bring $1700+ raw although the 1994 1/10 Oz. doesn't seem to bring much more than $700. Interesting.

The 1997 1/2, 1/4, and 1/10 Oz. sets constantly outperform the 1995 and 1996 Bimetal sets by roughly $1500-$2000 despite 1997 coins having a higher planned mintage. Anyone know what happened to the 1997 Gold Panda Bimetal coins?

Based on frequency of availability alone the 1992 1/10 Oz. seems to be the one to get.

PandaCollector · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2011, 10:50:16 PM »

Quote from: adamc4 on August 13, 2011, 10:29:17 PM

Anyone know what happened to the 1997 Gold Panda Bimetal coins?

1997-1998 are among the most interesting years in modern Chinese coins because of the cross-currents in the market due to the return of Hong Kong. There was wild speculation followed by a crash in both coins and stamps surrounding the event.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.co

Scooter74 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:08:58 AM »

So what are the current going prices seen for the 1991 Bi-Metal sets (Coin/Medal) 1/4 oz Gold, 1/8 oz Silver. We have 6 sets we inherited from our wise Mom and have been giving some thought to selling these. Ours are still in the original carboard outer box over the wooden presentation case and each coin/medal is then in a sealed clear plastic proof case. I did get one offer of $1,000.oo per set which I believe to be ludicrous . Any suggestions?

BChung · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:26:18 AM »

USD 5000 at "minimum".... IMO, since you got everything in their original state. I wouldn't consider any thing less.

BChung · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:28:10 AM »

And you do have a very very intelligent mother......

Scooter74 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:34:19 AM »

Yes, as the days go by she seems to be growing in her wisdom despite her passing 6 years ago. She drove her investment counseler crazy with her purchases of these coins as well as American Eagle sets but we are quite amazed by her savvy purchases. Looking for the gold to quadruple before the end of the year if the current trend continues. (Compared to prices at the time of her passing)

BChung · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2011, 07:11:16 AM »

It would be great if you upload some pics too.

Scooter74 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 06, 2011, 02:52:26 PM »

Will Attempt to upload more detailed photos of a set

Scooter74 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:30:19 AM »

Waiting for confirmation from my Brother-in-law to sell these 1991 Bi-metal Panda sets. (Hopefully in next 24 hrs.)

Anyone with guidance on fair and safe steps for selling on here?

From what I have seen, since I don't care to use paypal, I need to go wire transfer or cashiers check.
Shipping normally to occur after receipt and accepted deposit of funds?

Want to be fair.

I will also offer photos (to those interested) of each set front and back along with COA image as well.

Help on this would be appreciatedn.

davidt3251 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:56:35 AM »

I bought both coins in 69 at the HK Champion auction for $5200. No box or COA. The 3/8 coin is very rare, only 8 coins graded by NGC. The 1/4 has 14 coins traded. I dont know why there is such a disparity, but it seems the 3/8 should be worth more, evn though both auctions were the same price.

http://www.cghka.com/english/pwm1_2_1.asp?id=53309&type=wlyz&pos=1523
http://www.cghka.com/english/pwm1_2_1.asp?type=wlyz&pos=1524

PandaCollector · « **Reply #24 on:** September 19, 2011, 10:23:12 PM »

Quote from: davidt3251 on September 19, 2011, 11:56:35 AM

The 3/8 coin is very rare, only 8 coins graded by NGC. The 1/4 has 14 coins traded. I dont know why there is such a disparity, but it seems the 3/8 should be worth more, evn though both auctions were the same price.

The 1991's were released (as I recall) as either a two-piece set of both coin + medal, or a one-piece set of just the coin. The only way to acquire the medal was to buy the set. That is why there are fewer medals than coins. However, being a medal, there is less interest in them now so they sell for about the same as the coin despite being rarer.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Scooter74 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:45:01 PM »

Looks like it's time to post a For Sale sign on the "Sell or Buy" thread. And after rechecking I realized we have 10 sets of the 1991 series 25Y Bi-metal Coin/Medal in cardboard, Wood Presentation case and all in the original soft plastic sleeves and of course the COA as well.

Underbidder · « **Reply #26 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:54:53 PM »

Be cautious not to flood the market with all of them at once, that will result in lower prices realized.
If you can take the time to patiently sell them individuallly over the course of months, you'll have a better chance of keeping the price high.

BChung · « **Reply #27 on:** September 20, 2011, 12:15:39 AM »

You should be like your mother and at least leave a few sets for your kids and grand kids. For all we know if things get any worse the price you are selling now maybe a bargain in the future. Just my opinion, if you have 10 sets I will slowly sell 7 MAX or less depending how much I need the cash.

Scooter74 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 20, 2011, 12:32:28 AM »

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Unfortunately the offering is now out listing all 10 sets and the edit option is locked out already. (no way around this I assume?)

We are not in a hurry to sell - it's just that the Nuismatic interest is just not there for us at this time. If we don't get offers that meet our expectations, we'll just wait. I did already get a firm offer from a coin buying company of $4,000.00 per set so I have that as a fallback should we need it. At present we don't have to sell and the 'children' have no interest in the collection.

ghostrider80811 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 20, 2011, 11:26:03 AM »

You could also send them in to NCS/NGC and possibly get some 69 and hopefully a 70 out of it which will bring in more $$$$. Just a thought and good luck on your sale, cheers =).

badon · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2011, 08:57:39 PM »

Quote from: babycyt23 on September 20, 2011, 12:15:39 AM

You should be like your mother and at least leave a few sets for your kids and grand kids. For all we know if things get any worse the price you are selling now maybe a bargain in the future. Just my opinion, if you have 10 sets I will slowly sell 7 MAX or less depending how much I need the cash.

I agree. Your mother was wise to buy these for you, and you would be wise to keep them. The wealthiest people in the world are the heirs that don't cash out what their ancestors prepared for them.

I read a story recently about how the finest surviving medieval longbow was one that was hung for display in a family home, and kept there for 800 years. It's worth a fortune now, along with all the other things they've accumulated for the last millenium. Are they selling? Nope, they're adding to the collection to build the family wealth even further for the next generation of heirs.

Scooter74 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 20, 2011, 02:36:56 AM »

Since my original post here and post on the sales page the market has gotten a bit soft. Since we waited to ride out the market a while longer it appears that the original thoughts of prices north of 4k are not reasonable in the near term. We have relisted the coins with an asking price of 3600.oo so if there are interested members please let me know. Willing to discuss terms/other offers. While we are not under the gun to sell I would like to realize a little cash flow in the near term.

Thanks folks for your encouragement.

badon · « **Reply #32 on:** November 23, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »

Did you make an updated posting to the buy, sell, & trade forum with your new price?

Scooter74 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 24, 2011, 12:04:02 AM »

Yes 3-4 days ago 4 sets @ $3600.00 per set.

badon · « **Reply #34 on:** November 24, 2011, 02:29:05 AM »

I found it. For anyone looking for them, here they are:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4534.0

pandamania · « **Reply #35 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:05:03 AM »

All of the Expo coins are designated as being in BU condition except one.

The 1999 Beijing Expo coin is graded in mint state by PCGS and in proof by NGC. In Peter`s book the coin is shown as a BU. If someone who knows Chinese has the Cheng an Mr Ge books how are they listed there?

Is the 1999 Beijing Expo an exception or is NGC incorrect in its designation?

Russ 736 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:35:57 PM »

NGC does call the 99 Beijing Expo coin a proof in the population/point assignment section but I own several NGC graded 99s.They are all MS designated. These coins were obtained raw over a few years and graded as I got them. I have kind of given up on trying to figure out why NGC does stuff like this.I hadn't even realised it until you pointed it out.

Russ 736

badon · « **Reply #37 on:** December 12, 2011, 04:50:11 PM »

NGC changed the designation to "proof" after they visited China and had a discussion with mint officials, so I'm told. The change occurred after I knew they had returned from a visit to China, so I believe that is the correct explanation.

Chinese government decrees don't always make sense from the outside, so I'm not sure why the designation was unclear at first, and then changed to specifically "proof" while some of the other coins are designated differently.

From what I've seen in their manufacturing quality for the 1999's, they were very poorly produced, and would not be considered proofs in any other minting facility anywhere in the world that I know of. Only a bit more than half of them get a 69 grade, and I've seen a lot that are much lower. They're often quite damaged, probably from the handling done in the gold plating process, if the plating was done AFTER striking, which I'm not sure of, but I think is likely.

silverbear · « **Reply #38 on:** January 06, 2013, 02:44:00 AM »

what do you all think about the closing price of this pc?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-1-10-Ounce-Panda-Coin-w-Silver-Rim-in-14kt-Yellow-Gold-Bezel-/121021515271?pt=Fashion_Jewelry&nma=true&si=gc%2Bjxs9wizPd%2FFcNhNwmno7Qh0I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

the gold coin shld be proof version for 1996......... 0_0

silverbear · « **Reply #39 on:** January 11, 2013, 09:29:28 PM »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-China-Gold-Silver-Bimetallic-25-Yuan-Panda-Coin-NGC-PF69UC-/110985420600?pt=US_World_Coins&nma=true&si=gc%2Bjxs9wizPd%2FFcNhNwmno7Qh0I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://www.silverpandaprice.com/gold-panda-price.php?year=1996

silverbear · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2013, 04:02:58 AM »

another set just closed...

http://store.singaporegoldsilver.com/pricehist/modern-china-coins-price.php?year=2000

moosician · « **Reply #41 on:** April 25, 2016, 11:48:47 AM »

Regarding the 1991 1/4+1/8 i believe the planned mintage is 10,000 but actual mintage is 2000.

What i dont understand is the 1996 1/10+1/28 with mintage 2500, on par with most others at 2500 or 2000 is seen so much more frequent? Could the actual mintage be more than 2500?

And why is the 1992 1/10+ 1/28 so rarely seen?

Anyone can shed some light on this?

Jesse Livermore · « **Reply #42 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:56:56 PM »

As far as I can remember the 1996 1/10 has also been sold separately (beside the 3 coin set). In short, total planned mintage 8000.

Unfortunately I don´t have access to the related COA

moosician · « **Reply #43 on:** June 11, 2016, 06:06:20 AM »

Quote from: Jesse Livermore on June 10, 2016, 03:56:56 PM

In short, total planned mintage 8000.

May i know where is it stated planned mintage at 8k? its stated 2500 whenever i see. if its true, it could be a possible explanation for its usual visibility compared to others.

Another question id like to ask, is it possible to melt bimetallic coins? If yes how likely?

News:

Author Topic: Bimetal and Gilded/Plated Silver Pandas (Read 21994 times)

Underbidder

Underbidder

Underbidder

Underbidder

Underbidder