Topic: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998

[geoxxx]

Has anyone advised PCGS and NGC of this Date Shift and has anyone received reply ?

[Hippanda]

Yes Shifted Date is real, not sure if you missed this.

Once again, would refer you to page 13 of this thread.

Poconopenn did his usual splendid job of pointing it out clearly.

Here are his photos showing the difference:

[geoxxx]

Yes Shifted Date is real, not sure if you missed this.

Once again, would refer you to page 13 of this thread.

Poconopenn did his usual splendid job of pointing it out clearly.

Here are his photos showing the difference:

Thank you.
I see the Date Shift. 
I appreciate the advice.
Just wondering what NGC & PCGS have to say about all this.  The date shift is an obvious die difference.

[SANDAC]

Yes, stronger and weaker ear strikes, and frosting variations higher and lower on the shoulder and other areas are also apparent.  But are minor varying die states and frosting progressions true varieties when weighed against features with such as date with clearly different positioning?

I think PCGS missed the obvious on this one and created a variety out of Thick/Thin Branch progression where none clearly exists: how thick is Thick?  How thin is Thin? Where does one start and the other end?

Agree.  When frosting differences do not gravitate into two or three different and distinct groups, it should not be labelled as varieties.  The date shift maybe too minor to be qualified as varieties as well, witness the "P" shift in the 1994 unicorn proof which NGC does not recognize but PCGS does. http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5974.0

That said, panda is special case and may lead the way for variety recognition.

[ChineseCoinQuest]

I agree too, thick/thin branch was a mistake to make it a variety, to little difference in frosting and die states, and confusing. PCGS seems to be quick to jump on the variety train, while NGC doesn't rush into labeling varieties (it's Smart on ngc's behalf, they've learned to avoid disasters)

[geoxxx]

Yes. See comment in post above.

My guess today, based on admittedly far too few observations, is maybe PCGS is concentrating on naming the Thick Branch/ Thin Branch based on minor frosting variations, and maybe missing the far more significant die difference with Shifted Date?

It seems that NGC still not recognizing 1998 shift date.
Isn't this coin a shift date?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231223792095&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[toonfan34]

Trying to get the NGC to recognize the S5Y varieties

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7670911#Post7670911

[SANDAC]

Isn't this coin a shift date?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231223792095&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Yes, I believe so.  Overlay of your 3865890-021 with a normal date 2773271-060 that was painted red.

[geoxxx]

Yes, I believe so.  Overlay of your 3865890-021 with a normal date 2773271-060 that was painted red.

Thank you.
The picture is very clear.

[dragonzeng168]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161290135265&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT#ht_215wt_1001

[Wafdawg]

Looking to also get these 2 1995 1/2 oz graded.  Can you tell the varieties from the pics below?  Looks like 1 small date mirrored gap and 1 large date to me.

[dragonzeng168]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151330426179&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT#ht_139wt_1001
rare version 1995 1/2

[Wafdawg]

Looking to also get these 2 1995 1/2 oz graded.  Can you tell the varieties from the pics below?  Looks like 1 small date mirrored gap and 1 large date to me.

Results are back.  The small date panda was a 68; frosted gap variety while the large date was a 69.

[zafeu]

It is not a question of doubting anyone
On the contrary... I am just trying to gather information
It is just that outside this forum, I have not seen any reference to a SHIFTED DATE
It is not mentioned in Peter Anthony's book either
I see 2 coins on Ebay...are they both shifted date?
Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?

Peter Anthony's 12-2014_China_Pricepedia mentions a 5 Y 1998 "shifted date" MS69 sold on 04-2014. Does anyone know if "shifted date" was mentioned on the certificate label of the coin?

[geoxxx]

NGC census shows that they are still not recognizing the date shift.
I think we need to start screaming from roof-tops to get NGC to hear us.