Author Topic: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998  (Read 90177 times)

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Offline Wafdawg

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2014, 07:01:07 PM »
This one too.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2014, 08:02:45 PM »
 
Mirror gap.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2014, 08:31:18 PM »

Mirror gap.

Both 016 and 020? Thanks.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #198 on: February 08, 2014, 12:13:29 AM »

Offline ChineseCoinQuest

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2014, 02:15:35 PM »
Thanks for the research sandac and Poconopenn on the 98 shift date. I always thought is was a large and small date for the 98, but now I see that the date is shifted. I bought a shifted date off a German site about a year ago in the OMP.

Does anyone know if NGC will recognize this as a variety?, it seems significant to me.

Offline geoxxx

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2014, 10:52:33 AM »
I have seen 1998 thick / thin branch varieties with PCGS but no "shifts"
Anybody seen this ?

Offline davidt3251

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2014, 01:07:22 AM »
Has anyone given thought to the pecking order of all S5Y Pandas, and all S5Y in Investment Grade (68-70) S5Y Pandas?

Based on NGC data, which isnt very scientific, we have:

Coin        Total # Graded # 68/69/70
97 color     166               49/92/0 (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 32/59/0, the other 68/69/70 are PF CA and PF only)
98 color     301               44/213/10  (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 37/198/10)
97 HK Expo 316               135/159/0
98 HK Expo 244               43/183/4
93             536               89/378/32
94             500              101/332/37
95 LD         700              189/415/17
95 SD        480               230/183/0
96             662               247/337/1
97             608               146/440/2
98             483               157/296/2

With only 166 graded at NGC in total, only 141 investment grade coins, and only 59 graded in PF 69 UC, the 1997 Color S5Y appears to be the key date of all S5Y Panda. Depending on whether PF or PF CA or PF UC, we can see the number of sets in 69 that can be created. Using the 1997 Colored S5Y in PF 69 UC, only 59 sets of grade 69 S5Y Pandas can be created. Based on PF+PF CA + PF UC, only 92 full S5Y Pandas can be created in 69.

Using on my own collecting experience, I think the 1997 Color S5Y is much far harder to find in PF 69 UC than the 1995 S5Y SD in 69. There are zero 1997 Color PF 69 UC for sale on ebay, but 3 1995 S5Y MS69. It is also easier to find the 1995 Micro Date in 69 with three for sale on ebay and the 2001D Small D with one on ebay)

The 1997 S5Y Color in PF 69 UC with 59 available is scarcer tham 1995 Micro (189 graded in MS 69) and even scarcer than 2001D Small D (64 graded in MS 69)

Considering the 1995 S5Y SD in 69 is about a $1200 coin, the 1995 Micro is $4000 and the 2001D Small D is $1500, what is a 1997 Color PF 69 UC worth?

Offline pandamania

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #202 on: February 16, 2014, 04:10:49 AM »
Has anyone given thought to the pecking order of all S5Y Pandas, and all S5Y in Investment Grade (68-70) S5Y Pandas?

Based on NGC data, which isnt very scientific, we have:

Coin        Total # Graded # 68/69/70
97 color     166               49/92/0 (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 32/59/0, the other 68/69/70 are PF CA and PF only)
98 color     301               44/213/10  (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 37/198/10)
97 HK Expo 316               135/159/0
98 HK Expo 244               43/183/4
93             536               89/378/32
94             500              101/332/37
95 LD         700              189/415/17
95 SD        480               230/183/0
96             662               247/337/1
97             608               146/440/2
98             483               157/296/2

With only 166 graded at NGC in total, only 141 investment grade coins, and only 59 graded in PF 69 UC, the 1997 Color S5Y appears to be the key date of all S5Y Panda. Depending on whether PF or PF CA or PF UC, we can see the number of sets in 69 that can be created. Using the 1997 Colored S5Y in PF 69 UC, only 59 sets of grade 69 S5Y Pandas can be created. Based on PF+PF CA + PF UC, only 92 full S5Y Pandas can be created in 69.

Using on my own collecting experience, I think the 1997 Color S5Y is much far harder to find in PF 69 UC than the 1995 S5Y SD in 69. There are zero 1997 Color PF 69 UC for sale on ebay, but 3 1995 S5Y MS69. It is also easier to find the 1995 Micro Date in 69 with three for sale on ebay and the 2001D Small D with one on ebay)

The 1997 S5Y Color in PF 69 UC with 59 available is scarcer tham 1995 Micro (189 graded in MS 69) and even scarcer than 2001D Small D (64 graded in MS 69)

Considering the 1995 S5Y SD in 69 is about a $1200 coin, the 1995 Micro is $4000 and the 2001D Small D is $1500, what is a 1997 Color PF 69 UC worth?


It is very interesting that the colored proofs continue to be relatively difficult to find. With authorized  mintages of 100,000 per issue one would normally expect that there would be substantially more coins graded and available than those with much lower mintages. However this is not the case begging the question what is the actual surviving population of these coins (they continue to be difficult to find in dealer inventories). For example, not only are the Proof 5Y coins amongst the lowest available in the most common grade (PF69) the same is true with the 10y proof coins.

In PF69 condition these are the following NGC population figures for the 10y Colored Proof Silver Pandas:

1997         88
1998        169
1999        148

The non colored proof coins have NGC graded populations of PF69 ranging from a low of 225 for the 1983 silver panda to a high of 917 for the 1990, significantly more than the supposedly plentiful colored proofs. So how many investment grade colored proof actually exist and what is the relative value of these coins?

For more discussion on the mystique of the Colored Proof Silver Pandas please see the following thread:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2145.0

Offline eurokrem

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #203 on: February 16, 2014, 06:59:31 AM »
As for nice 1oz BU Silver Panda collection no need exist to have colored coins to be happy with, it may be the same for 1/2oz BU Silver Panda, i have myself a little collection of 1/2oz and a dont chase colored ones at all and dont think that without my colection not completed is, colored ones are kind for its own collection with 1oz together if someone like those collored coins, i do not like look of them so i don't collect colored Panda and feel happy with collection of only non colored coins.  N25
У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2014, 08:55:48 AM »
Good information David.   The once lowly panda colored proofs are much more rare then expected, especially high grades.   Most are low grade.  Due to lack of popularity in the past, they were melted or cast into the silver stack and damaged.   I noticed that today there is a large collector group for all colored MCC.   The colored MCC may have their day in the financial sun afterall...........

Offline geoxxx

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #205 on: February 27, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
I need some help from the experienced guys.....
Does anyone know if the 1998 1/2oz really exists in a "Shift Date" variety or is this just a rumour?
I see no mention of this in NGC or PCGS

Offline ChineseCoinQuest

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #206 on: February 27, 2014, 03:02:03 PM »
I would like to know too, I even pm Peter Anthony " pandacollector" a few weeks back about the 98 1/2 Shifted date and got zero response.

Offline geoxxx

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #207 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:36 PM »
Yes
I have seen the Thick / Thin Branch 1998 1/2oz varieties with PCGS
but apart from this thread...I see no other records of the "shifted Date"

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #208 on: February 27, 2014, 03:21:35 PM »
Do you doubt the great and powerful poconopenn???  :blink:

Just because NGC doesn't acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I have nothing to offer beyond that.

The next time I'm at my safe deposit box, I'll snap a pic of my 98 1/2 oz and post it for ya'll to see. 

Offline geoxxx

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #209 on: February 27, 2014, 03:26:12 PM »
Do you doubt the great and powerful poconopenn???  :blink:

Just because NGC doesn't acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I have nothing to offer beyond that.

The next time I'm at my safe deposit box, I'll snap a pic of my 98 1/2 oz and post it for ya'll to see. 

It is not a question of doubting anyone
On the contrary... I am just trying to gather information
It is just that outside this forum, I have not seen any reference to a SHIFTED DATE
It is not mentioned in Peter Anthony's book either
I see 2 coins on Ebay...are they both shifted date?
Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?