Author Topic: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998  (Read 91900 times)

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Offline Gilmore

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #165 on: October 25, 2013, 05:46:42 AM »
I learned from the ebay listing below that the 1994 coin also has a variety.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-China-Silver-Panda-coin-S5Y-NGC-MS69-Special-/151150668206?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item23314829ae

After researching past auctions on Zhaoonline it appears that this no news, but here it is anyway for those who, like me, did not know about it. The coin on the left seems to be more rare.

Offline NBM

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #166 on: October 25, 2013, 07:33:28 AM »
Price: US $666.00
Is that the going price for the rare version?

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #167 on: November 16, 2013, 08:39:39 AM »
Just finished searching through the NGC database of the 1995 panda S5Y small date, thanks to dc55232 who provided me a list of 345 NGC certification numbers.

NGC graded 456 coins. 345 were searched: 3 have no photos, 1 is a Large Date (mislabeled), 202 have gap under the panda's belly, 139 have no gap.


If you want\need the list feel free to PM me.

  

Offline radderlee

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #168 on: November 16, 2013, 08:47:29 AM »
It is very useful. thanks Gilmore!

Offline Pandapaule

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #169 on: November 16, 2013, 10:14:42 AM »
Here's an SD without gap with long legs.
How much there is of this?



greeting

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #170 on: November 16, 2013, 11:15:03 PM »
Hi Pandapaule,
I only searched for gap\no-gap, no other details. Just wanted to check how scarce the 'no-gap' variety is. I expected that there will be fewer of them, much less than the 40% (139 out of 345). Sorry that I don't have an answer for your question.

Gil



Offline Pandapaule

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #171 on: November 17, 2013, 05:18:47 AM »
Hi Gilmore

No problem. At the moment I do not have all NGC data bask I would count myself. But I think this "long leg" is very rare. I've also seen another variant. Ear ind leg with shiny long hair.



greeting

Offline Pandapaule

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #172 on: November 17, 2013, 03:00:47 PM »
I've now looked through my database. Unfortunately I have no current, so I've only 217th
Of these, 5 of the last version.
23 with long legs.

greeting

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2013, 08:17:58 PM »
PCGS now recognizes the 1995 small date Frosted Gap and Mirror gap varieties. I believe NGC will soon follow.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2013, 09:36:36 PM »
Does PCGS describe the difference between Frosted Gap and Mirror Gap somewhere on their website?  It seems to me the difference needs to be more than just gap/no-gap in Panda's belly to justify the variety designations.  Frosting/mirror field variations are so common in MCC, we'll have overwhelming number of varieties and run out of description for them very soon!

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #175 on: November 18, 2013, 09:48:08 PM »
I haven't found any descriptions on PCGS website. mook mentioned on another thread that PCGS will recognize all varieties from Peter Anthony's latest book. So more are coming...

Link: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9675.msg56599#msg56599

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #176 on: November 19, 2013, 12:37:07 AM »
I'm hoping for a collection of differentiating characteristics representing a different master dies when PCGS/NGC assigned a new variety, like the 1/20oz 2001D G20Y Panda under discussion today (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9719.msg56653#msg56653).  In that case the "snub nose" variety represents a collection of distinct characteristics (eyes, nose, mouth, and sparse bamboo) that collectively are easily differentiated from others.  If it is just one frosting/mirror field difference, I afraid we may have a spectrum of evolving die states that's difficult to differentiate.  A good example is the spectrum of differences in the shrubbery of the 1993 S10Y Peacock (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6848.msg42170#msg42170).  There are differences, no doubt, but they are too tedious to hold much interests at current stage of MCC evolution, IMO.

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #177 on: November 22, 2013, 09:48:02 AM »
I agree SANDAC.  I see little need to start making new varieties of these coins based on small frost differences.  I think it should be major like 00 mirror / frosted or a major vAriety made by a different master die.  Like LD / SD.  Right now the collector base collecting even those major varieties is quite sparse.  And really I've always wanted to see us move away from calling the SD / LD, varieties and and get used to calling them mint differences (marks, varieties, or something else).  Anyone have any good suggestions of a name to call the overall mint "marks"? 

Offline Pandapaule

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #178 on: November 24, 2013, 06:25:30 AM »
SANDAC
I understand what they mean. But I am not quite in their opinion.
The 1/2 1995 there are more than a frosted difference.
There have been other coins with 2 variants only by frosted.
Good example is "Philosophy Yin & Yang 1993 frosted"
Why should we just start to accept variants have several differences now? If the difference between frosted and mirror is very large, I think you can accept it as a variant.
Such a variant would be 1/2 1994.
1/2 in 1995 have been used 2 different stamps.
Gill for leaves in front of tree and leaves behind a tree.

greeting
Pandapaule

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #179 on: November 24, 2013, 01:12:05 PM »
I agree absolutely that 1995 1/2 LD leaves-in-front-of-tree is different die than leaves-behind-tree and should be recognized as separate varieties.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of variety studies of MCC, in particular the varieties of historical figures and invention & discovery, http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4585.0. Vast majority of them are frosting/mirror field varieties.  I just don't believe the timing is ripe for most of these frosting variations to be recognized by NGC/PCGS.

The 1993 Yin & Yang discussed by Gilmore (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5384.0) is an early example (May 1992) of variety designation that's based on frosting variation instead of different mints like the large/small date Panda.  It is a rather common frosting variation but occurred on two critical features, the yin & yang symbols.  Furthermore, the variation is distinct: the yin & yang symbol is either corrupted with frosting or not.  So I do think a variety designation by NGC is justified.  We are having more such frosting variation designation now.  Peter's book has a lot to do with it and it is a good idea to start with the panda where there are large collector base.  However, once you delved into frosting variation, you'll find most coins have many areas of differences resulting in an incredible amount of combination and permutation.  I am just worry that collectors will lost interest facing such daunting array of variations. IMO, NGC/PCGS need to carefully gauge collector interests before jump into varieties based on frosting variations.