Author Topic: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998  (Read 77763 times)

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Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #210 on: February 27, 2014, 04:27:04 PM »

Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?

Please refer to previous page of this thread, page 13

It is hard to find.  I have to go through about 100 to find three.  The three with date shift are NGC 3235839-073 and -074 and 2775591-040.  
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #211 on: February 27, 2014, 04:28:47 PM »
I need some help from the experienced guys.....
Does anyone know if the 1998 1/2oz really exists in a "Shift Date" variety or is this just a rumour?
I see no mention of this in NGC or PCGS

NGC has not recognized the shift date yet.

Here are some NGC certified coins with a shifted date.

2784394-001. 002 and 003

2788068-006 and 007

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #212 on: February 27, 2014, 04:37:41 PM »
Based on this coin "Shift Date" appears to be same as what PCGS calls "Thick Branch".

Or perhaps not, as PCGS has graded many more Thick Branch than Thin Branch, yet Shift Date seems scarcer in raw and NGC.

Maybe there are more than two varieties for this coin?

Perhaps someone with a marking program can mark the "Thick Branch" PCGS refers to?

It seems somewhat odd PCGS chose to call it that, when the shifted date is so much more obvious?

Need to examine more PCGS coins.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 05:14:40 PM by Hippanda »
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Offline geoxxx

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #213 on: February 27, 2014, 04:42:15 PM »
Is the attached a shift date?

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #214 on: February 27, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »
Is the attached a shift date?

Yes. See comment in post above.

My guess today, based on admittedly far too few observations, is maybe PCGS is concentrating on naming the Thick Branch/ Thin Branch based on minor frosting variations, and maybe missing the far more significant die difference with Shifted Date?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 05:29:36 PM by Hippanda »
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #215 on: February 27, 2014, 09:33:46 PM »
The shift date definitely has a design difference from the regular date. Based on the coins I have seen, both versions have a thick branch. I have never seen a thin branch coin, except the picture in Peter’s book (page 239). It may be just frosting variations as suggested by Hippanda. Perhaps, Peter can provide us with additional information. Please post picture, if any member has PCGS graded thin branch coin.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #216 on: February 27, 2014, 11:37:34 PM »
The shift date definitely has a design difference from the regular date. Based on the coins I have seen, both versions have a thick branch. I have never seen a thin branch coin, except the picture in Peter’s book (page 239). It may be just frosting variations as suggested by Hippanda. Perhaps, Peter can provide us with additional information. Please post picture, if any member has PCGS graded thin branch coin.

I'm thinking Thin Branch is either frosting variation, or later worn die state.

Either way, not nearly as significant as the clearly different die "Shifted Date".

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #217 on: February 28, 2014, 01:11:26 AM »
See this map of differences in 1998 1/2 oz panda:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=10019.msg58452#msg58452

The permutation of variations are numerous, but here are a few examples for your examination:

3559391-005 example of thin branch
2776977-004 example of not-so-thin branch with different shoulder, hip, and eyes and leaves on top
3364288-001 example of not-so-thin branch different shoulder, hip, and eyes than above
2755595-006 example of thick-branch
3564332-080 example of thick-branch, different eyes, hip, and shoulder than above

As I've said before, the bimodal differentiation of thick/thin branch is misleading

Offline PandaQuest

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #218 on: February 28, 2014, 01:13:33 AM »
This is branch from shifted date.

Offline PandaQuest

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #219 on: February 28, 2014, 01:15:35 AM »
This my regular date

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #220 on: February 28, 2014, 01:26:14 AM »
PandaQuest-
Could you kindly point out where you see the difference is?
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Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #221 on: February 28, 2014, 01:48:38 AM »
Oh, I read it wrong, I thought you want me to point out the differences.  But since I've already put together an animated GIF of the 5 coins I mentioned.  Here it is.  Each coin will display for 2 seconds, fix your eye on one of the area I circled and see how they change from coin to coin.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #222 on: February 28, 2014, 01:56:22 AM »
Nicely done.  Your animated GIFs are always valuable.

If anything, to my eyes it only reinforces the opinion that it is just different die states that are being shown.

IMO Not enough to warrant a variety.

Now the Shifted Date on the other hand is an obvious different die, and worthy of a variety.

Did PCGS blow this one?
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Offline NBM

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #223 on: February 28, 2014, 02:05:28 AM »
Maybe some differences in  the ears as well.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #224 on: February 28, 2014, 02:14:29 AM »
Yes, stronger and weaker ear strikes, and frosting variations higher and lower on the shoulder and other areas are also apparent.  But are minor varying die states and frosting progressions true varieties when weighed against features with such as date with clearly different positioning?

I think PCGS missed the obvious on this one and created a variety out of Thick/Thin Branch progression where none clearly exists: how thick is Thick?  How thin is Thin? Where does one start and the other end?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

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