Author Topic: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998  (Read 71125 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« on: August 04, 2011, 09:32:49 PM »
I replied to Peng_you regarding pre 2005 double sealed silver pandas, and I consider the 1/2 ounce silver pandas very important and feel they should have its own topic.

They are still cheap and most of their mintages are unknown and if known, most were melted. The 1998 is the most expensive selling between $150 to $200. Besides the 1998, the 1995 from the Shenyeng mint is hard to come by.

FYI, who minted what for the 1/2 ounce silver pandas. Best way to recognize them is their pouch. Each mint has a different border design.
Another nice convenience in keeping them as issued!

1993 - Shanghai mint
1994 - Shanghai mint
1995 - both Shanghai and Shenyang mints
1996 - Shenyang mint
1997 - Shenyang mint
1998 - Shenyang mint

exchange

Offline peng_you

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Karma: -1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 09:49:50 PM »
the dates 93-98 seem to turn into gold when it comes to the chinese coin market. i wouldnt be suprised if half ouncers followed suit. you just added another buyer....

Offline GrandAm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 2
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 03:33:18 PM »
I have found that the 1994 1/2 oz is the most expensive coin in the (6) coin group  :ohmy:

Offline r3globe

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 03:40:12 PM »
I would like to also draw your attention to the 1997 & 1998 1/2 Ounce Panda Expo coins. I believe they are under-priced too!

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 03:41:47 PM »
I have found that the 1994 1/2 oz is the most expensive coin in the (6) coin group  :ohmy:

Really? 1998 has been for me. I was always able to get the 1994's cheaper than the 1998's.
I have sheets of ten for every year including both 1995s.

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 03:43:10 PM »
I would like to also draw your attention to the 1997 & 1998 1/2 Ounce Panda Expo coins. I believe they are under-priced too!

Yes, I agree. Those are still underpriced.
Make sure you have the COAs for these! I know I do. :)

exchange

Offline GrandAm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 2
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 03:43:28 PM »
I have multiples of ea date including the expo coins in PCGS MS68 & MS69  :001_smile:

Offline adamc4

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 2
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 11:53:28 AM »
I would like to also draw your attention to the 1997 & 1998 1/2 Ounce Panda Expo coins. I believe they are under-priced too!

Just sold both the 97 and 98 HK Expo coins double sealed for around $80 each on eBay for what it's worth.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 03:32:39 PM »
The planned mintages for 1/2 oz silver pandas as given in "Album of Precious Metal Commememrative Coins of The Peoples' Republisc of China" edited by China Gold Coin Inc:

1993 128,888
1994 158,888
1995 No limit
1996 No limit
1997 No limit
1998 200,000
1997 H.K. 30,000
1998 H.K. 30,000

IMO, the actual mintage may be much lower. 1994 was the most expensive one before 2009, but not in the last 12 months. Currently, 1998 is the most expensive one. 1995 small date (Shenyang Mint) is also hard to find.

exchange,

Can you check your 1997 sheet ? The position of date may be slightly different even the coins are in the same sheet.

Offline PandaOrLunar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 28
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 03:51:58 PM »
Any idea of the reason behinds why 1994 is no longer the expensive one and 1998 is?

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 04:24:21 PM »
Any idea of the reason behinds why 1994 is no longer the expensive one and 1998 is?

I have been following these for a while now and no one has any 1/2 ounce 1998s for sale. The only person in the world that offers them is Xu.  Look on ebay, not one seller has them at any given time. In fact many collectors don't even know they exist, they think in 1998 only the expo 1/2 ounce was issued thats how rare this coin is.

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »
The planned mintages for 1/2 oz silver pandas as given in "Album of Precious Metal Commememrative Coins of The Peoples' Republisc of China" edited by China Gold Coin Inc:

1993 128,888
1994 158,888
1995 No limit
1996 No limit
1997 No limit
1998 200,000
1997 H.K. 30,000
1998 H.K. 30,000

IMO, the actual mintage may be much lower. 1994 was the most expensive one before 2009, but not in the last 12 months. Currently, 1998 is the most expensive one. 1995 small date (Shenyang Mint) is also hard to find.

exchange,

Can you check your 1997 sheet ? The position of date may be slightly different even the coins are in the same sheet.

1993 has a mintage of 28,888 and yet much easier to find then the 1998 which is quoted at 200,000.

exchange

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 04:43:11 PM »
1993 has a mintage of 28,888 and yet much easier to find then the 1998 which is quoted at 200,000.

exchange
Old version (2004) of Zhao's book listed planned mintage of 1993 as 28,888. The new version (2011) the planned mintage has changed to 128,888. This mintage is the same as the book I mentioned before.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 04:45:11 PM »
Any idea of the reason behinds why 1994 is no longer the expensive one and 1998 is?
Any idea of the reason behinds why 1994 is no longer the expensive one and 1998 is?

I do not know.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 04:49:01 PM »
I have been following these for a while now and no one has any 1/2 ounce 1998s for sale. The only person in the world that offers them is Xu.  Look on ebay, not one seller has them at any given time. In fact many collectors don't even know they exist, they think in 1998 only the expo 1/2 ounce was issued thats how rare this coin is.

exchange


I sold one last week at eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350476727637&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 04:57:00 PM »
I sold one last week at eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350476727637&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

LOL, I was looking at that one to see how long it would take for it to sell. Sure, one here and one there, someone else aside from Xu had one a few months prior.

exchange

Offline PandaOrLunar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 28
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 06:24:33 PM »
Have we seem/aware of any 1/2 oz fake?

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 06:28:50 PM »
Have we seem/aware of any 1/2 oz fake?

I only concentrate on the double sealed 1/2 ounces. That for me is a good start in not getting a fake. I haven't heard or seen any but maybe other members who are more experienced have.

exchange

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 07:12:46 PM »
I have not seen one yet. It is not a primary target of counterfeiter at the present time.

The following recent news article suggests that Chinese authority may start to look into coin counterfiet much more series than before


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.jibi.net/News/qbqbcx/14_10_13_475.html&ei=8ME9TtGNCIr20gHGl5jaDw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.jibi.net/News/qbqbcx/14_10_13_475.html%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26rlz%3D1R2ADRA_enUS402%26biw%3D1152%26bih%3D512%26prmd%3Divns

Based on the pictures, I believe those fake coins are 2011 gold panda BU set, rabbit gold and silver set, and 90th Anniv. of Chinese communist party set.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 07:46:35 PM »
+1 with the 1995 Shenyang Small Date being the scarcer of the 1/2oz silver pandas. I wouldn't be surprised if the Shenyang variety was less than 1/3 the total 1995 1/2oz population. IMO their getting Hot and is quickly getting recognized, I saw a sheet go for $1,080.00 a couple weeks ago, that's twice as much as the 95 large date sheet goes for on the bay. Not easy to find in ms69, they had some on RCC for $75.00 about a month ago, just missed them.  :(

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2011, 08:23:17 PM »
+1 with the 1995 Shenyang Small Date being the scarcer of the 1/2oz silver pandas. I wouldn't be surprised if the Shenyang variety was less than 1/3 the total 1995 1/2oz population. IMO their getting Hot and is quickly getting recognized, I saw a sheet go for $1,080.00 a couple weeks ago, that's twice as much as the 95 large date sheet goes for on the bay. Not easy to find in ms69, they had some on RCC for $75.00 about a month ago, just missed them.  :(

Very true. 3 months ago or so I purchased a sheet of ten 1995 1/2 Shenyang for $500, now as you said almost $1100.
The thing with the 1998 is I believe many don't even know it exists.

exchange

Offline mrslick32

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2011, 08:51:09 PM »
Any idea of the reason behinds why 1994 is no longer the expensive one and 1998 is?

The supply of 1998 panda coins in general is relatively tighter compared to other years. This applies to the gold coins, 1 oz. coins, and the 1/2 oz. coin. Like Exchange said, people did not seem to know that it existed so you can still get them for a relatively lower price. However, I don't think this will last long.

It was only around two months ago when I saw Xu Hong list a 1995 1/2 oz. panda (small date) from Shenyang for less than $60. Although I was aware that it was rare, I passed on it for personal reasons. I have a few 1/2 oz. pandas but I'm concentrating more on other coins because although I like their design, they are too small for me. I prefer larger sized coins (at least 38mm in diameter). If I did not see other coins I wanted to buy at that time, I would have bought the 1995 1/2 oz from Xu Hong. If you're a fan of the 1/2 oz. panda, I suggest that you look for them before the prices go up. The same goes for 1998.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2011, 09:59:44 PM »
The supply of 1998 panda coins in general is relatively tighter compared to other years. This applies to the gold coins, 1 oz. coins, and the 1/2 oz. coin. Like Exchange said, people did not seem to know that it existed so you can still get them for a relatively lower price. However, I don't think this will last long.

It was only around two months ago when I saw Xu Hong list a 1995 1/2 oz. panda (small date) from Shenyang for less than $60. Although I was aware that it was rare, I passed on it for personal reasons. I have a few 1/2 oz. pandas but I'm concentrating more on other coins because although I like their design, they are too small for me. I prefer larger sized coins (at least 38mm in diameter). If I did not see other coins I wanted to buy at that time, I would have bought the 1995 1/2 oz from Xu Hong. If you're a fan of the 1/2 oz. panda, I suggest that you look for them before the prices go up. The same goes for 1998.

I bought my sheet of ten 1995 shenyang from Xu, in fact I believe I bought his last one. Prior to mine, he sold another for $480.
The one he recently sold for $1080 I don't believe were double sealed. If I remember right, they were capsule sealed but used COA protectors to cover the capsules as per the description. That is why I believe my friend did not purchase them at the time. So even not been double sealed, they sold for $1080.

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2011, 08:48:53 AM »
Hi poconopenn,

My apologies, I just realized I never answered your question.  I have attached a picture of my 1997 sheet. I don't have the sheet with me. I take pictures of all my coins for record keeping  before they go to a safe place.

sincerely,
exchange


Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 04:02:09 PM »
Hi poconopenn,

My apologies, I just realized I never answered your question.  I have attached a picture of my 1997 sheet. I don't have the sheet with me. I take pictures of all my coins for record keeping  before they go to a safe place.

sincerely,
exchange




Yes, coins in your sheet, based on the picture, can also see a very slight difference in date postion. Bottom No 2 and 4 coins show clear difference. They are not optical illusion, since the position of these two coins placed inside the pouch is about the same.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 10:52:55 AM »
I would say anyone who picked up a sheet of the 1995 SD or individual coins did well. Check out this raw one, it doesn't look that great but it's just rarely seen. Maybe there just wasn't that many distributed in the US, seems very scarce for silver. I wonder what an ms69 would bring...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1995-Panda-Climbing-Tree-Branch-Silver-5-Yuan-PL-/110742057185?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8bdb0e1#ht_515wt_984

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2011, 11:27:10 AM »
I would say anyone who picked up a sheet of the 1995 SD or individual coins did well. Check out this raw one, it doesn't look that great but it's just rarely seen. Maybe there just wasn't that many distributed in the US, seems very scarce for silver. I wonder what an ms69 would bring...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1995-Panda-Climbing-Tree-Branch-Silver-5-Yuan-PL-/110742057185?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8bdb0e1#ht_515wt_984

and to think Xu was selling sheets of ten for under $500 in April, thats when I picked mine up.

exchange

Offline ghostrider80811

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 678
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2011, 11:03:03 AM »
exchange,


Good deal!  I regret not picking up more sets when I had the chance, cheers. 

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2011, 11:33:08 AM »
exchange,


Good deal!  I regret not picking up more sets when I had the chance, cheers. 

At least we picked up a sheet which is more than what most have. I remember when I got my sheet of ten 1995 1/2ounce silver Shenyeng mint, it took 1 month and a half for it to arrive. Go go figure it had to be that one!

exchange

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2011, 12:07:56 PM »
I purchase two 1995 1/2 oz small date about 1 to 2 months ago.  Raw and MS 68 for about $100 each.  The CCF gave me good advice again.  May have been last chance to buy at low prices.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2011, 11:06:44 PM »
Here's a closeup picture of part of both sheets of ten, 1995 1/2 silver ounce pandas double sealed from the Shanghai and Shenyeng mints.

exchange

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2011, 12:53:03 PM »
Both 1995 small date (Shenyang) and large date (Shanghai Mint) have weak stroke version with extra mirror surface at the same spot.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2011, 08:49:11 AM »
I was looking today at these 2 coins, the first one from taobao and the second from a Taiwanese auction. The pouches are different. Which one is the correct one?



Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2011, 10:30:45 AM »
I was looking today at these 2 coins, the first one from taobao and the second from a Taiwanese auction. The pouches are different. Which one is the correct one?




It seems both of them are fine, one appears to be from the Sehnyang mint and the second from the shanghai mint. The one from the Shenyang mint much more difficult to find.
You would need to see the year to confirm small date and large date.

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2011, 11:04:44 AM »
It seems both of them are fine, one appears to be from the Sehnyang mint and the second from the shanghai mint. The one from the Shenyang mint much more difficult to find.
You would need to see the year to confirm small date and large date.

exchange

sorry, I made a mistake, this is a 1994 coin not 1995. 1994 as far as I know were only issued from the Shanghai mint.

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2011, 11:14:24 AM »
sorry, I made a mistake, this is a 1994 coin not 1995. 1994 as far as I know were only issued from the Shanghai mint.

exchange

I also wanted to add, I have two sheets of ten of the 1996 1/2 ounce silver pandas. Both sheets have different seals, shenyang and shanghai. Now I am wondering if 1995 is not the correct year where the Shenyeng mint started to mint the 1/2 ounces, but possibly 1994.
There's really not much information on these 1/2 ounces.

exchange
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 11:24:05 AM by exchange »

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2011, 11:55:24 AM »
1993 Shanghai
1994 Shanghai
1995 Shanghai, Shenyang
1996 Shenyang, Shenzhen
1997 Shenzhen
1998 Shenzhen

1994 coin (taobao list) has to be a reseal.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2011, 12:10:59 PM »
1993 Shanghai
1994 Shanghai
1995 Shanghai, Shenyang
1996 Shenyang, Shenzhen
1997 Shenzhen
1998 Shenzhen

1994 coin (taobao list) has to be a reseal.

I did not know about the 1996 Shenzhen. Fantastic, now I know why the two sheets are different.

Thank you,
exchange

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2011, 02:50:45 PM »
There are two mints for 1996? Are there varieties?

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2011, 02:53:32 PM »
1993 Shanghai
1994 Shanghai
1995 Shanghai, Shenyang
1996 Shenyang, Shenzhen
1997 Shenzhen
1998 Shenzhen

1994 coin (taobao list) has to be a reseal.

Hi poconopenn,

We know the 1995 Shenyang is quite difficult to locate. Can the same be said about the 1996 Shenyang? considering those were the only two years the Shenyang mint minted the coins.

sincerely,
exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2011, 02:57:16 PM »
There are two mints for 1996? Are there varieties?

I was surprised about that but it does make sense because I was always puzzled why my two sheets of ten 1996s had two different kinds of seals. I will post pictures later today.

exchange

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2011, 06:38:19 PM »
Thank you very much Exchange and poconopenn.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 06:50:03 PM by Gilmore »

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2011, 08:46:04 PM »
Here is a picture of both of my 1996 sheets of ten Shenyang and Shenzhen 1/2 ounce silver pandas. There may very well be a difference in variety but I do not keep them with me. I also keep records of everything I have. The pictures are high resolutions, maybe a member may notice something.

exchange


tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2011, 11:42:20 PM »
Hard to tell exactly, but it appears like a small date/large date variation to me.

Offline XiongMao_Ag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2011, 12:47:36 AM »
Does it seem like the left shoulder is different? In the upper sheet, the top of the arm is pointed, while in the bottom sheet it is rounded...

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2011, 12:50:12 AM »
Does it seem like the left shoulder is different? In the upper sheet, the top of the arm is pointed, while in the bottom sheet it is rounded...

You are right. They are different.

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2011, 01:16:30 AM »
My 1996 1/2s are pointy-shoulders

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2011, 01:49:09 AM »
I agree... I think the difference is small. But I think one of them have Thicker Numbers (1996) and the 1 looks like there is a slight difference too.

and exchange can you try to get a really good pics of 1 coin each?

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2011, 01:51:16 AM »
1993 Shanghai
1994 Shanghai
1995 Shanghai, Shenyang
1996 Shenyang, Shenzhen
1997 Shenzhen
1998 Shenzhen

1994 coin (taobao list) has to be a reseal.

Can you a Peter co author a book please??? I will buy it....

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2011, 08:03:53 AM »
I agree... I think the difference is small. But I think one of them have Thicker Numbers (1996) and the 1 looks like there is a slight difference too.

and exchange can you try to get a really good pics of 1 coin each?

Yes, I will post better pictures of 1 coin each.

exchange

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2011, 09:57:21 AM »
Anyone care to guess what the melt ratio will be on this bad boy when it closes, still four days left!     

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-Peoples-Rep-1995-Panda-PCGS-MS69-Silver-Super-GEMBU-5-Yuan-/110763275419?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ca01749b#ht_1356wt_157

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2011, 10:15:26 AM »
Wow

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2011, 10:20:49 AM »
Anyone care to guess what the melt ratio will be on this bad boy when it closes, still four days left!      

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-Peoples-Rep-1995-Panda-PCGS-MS69-Silver-Super-GEMBU-5-Yuan-/110763275419?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ca01749b#ht_1356wt_157

Is this the small date from the Shenyang mint?
Just want to make sure as there is no indication in its description.

Also, I did not forget, I will post pictures of both 1996's.

exchange

Offline Obsidian

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Karma: 32
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2011, 11:53:12 AM »
Is this the small date from the Shenyang mint?
exchange

Yes, that is the 95 SD (Shenyang)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 12:00:37 PM by Obsidian »

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2011, 12:11:49 PM »
Yes, that is the 95 SD (Shenyang)

wow but not surprised.

exchange

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2011, 12:16:16 PM »
The 1/2 oz silver pandas are on the move.  Even Jay's rare pandas has a 1/2 oz listed on his site as do many other dealers.  Have not seen this before as top dealers are listing 1/2 oz silver pandas.  I feel fortunate to have purchased (2) 1995 1/2 oz small dates about 2 months ago.  2 is better than none!  Thanks to members of CCF and their sharing of information.  Wish I had purchased more 1/2 ozs..........

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2011, 09:56:29 AM »
I took better pictures of both 1996 Shenyang, Shenzhen front and back. There is definitely a difference.
This is what I can tell for now:

1) XiongMao_Ag was correct, there is a shoulder difference. The coin has pointy top shoulders vs round. (very obvious)
2) Tamao42 seem to also be correct. There is a small date large date variety.
3) The left leg of the panda on the coin is larger in width then the other. Also the curve by the ankles and leg is better defined on the other.

exchange


 

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2011, 09:59:22 AM »
Now we just need names for the varieties. I've been calling these pointed shoulder and round shoulder on the LBC lists lately.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2011, 10:02:51 AM »
Now we just need names for the varieties. I've been calling these pointed shoulder and round shoulder on the LBC lists lately.

That makes sense as this difference is the most obvious.

exchange

Offline ghostrider80811

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 678
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2011, 10:49:42 AM »
@exchange


On the 1996, which one is rarer?  thanks in advance!

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2011, 11:42:37 AM »
@exchange


On the 1996, which one is rarer?  thanks in advance!

ghostrider80811,

I really don't know which one is rarer yet. This is like a deja vous of the 1995's. When I bought my sheets of SM and LD 1995's, I did not think one was rarer than the other. All I wanted to do was to make sure I had both from a collector's point of view.
Both of my 1995's came from Xu.

With the 1996's the round shoulder was purchased from Xu while the other from a US dealer. I did not even expect for them to be different, I just wanted two sheets of ten, it just happened that I got both varieties.

Xu seems to have both for sale right now just like he used to have both of the 1995's earlier this year.
If you can just get one of each then at least you know you will have a 100% chance of holding the rarer of the two.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-1-2oz-silver-panda-mint-sheet-10-toning-/270837923637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0f32bf35#ht_1516wt_955

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-1-2oz-silver-panda-mint-sheet-10-/270832925372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0ee67abc#ht_1582wt_955

exchange
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 11:53:21 AM by exchange »

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2011, 12:40:10 PM »
Can you point out the difference? I can't tell.

Offline ghostrider80811

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 678
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2011, 01:01:13 PM »
Can you point out the difference? I can't tell.

Xu Hong uses the same stock photos but on page 4 of this topic there's a good pic with the difference such as the LS, SD, Big shoulders, and Round Shoulders etc..etc...

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2011, 01:02:55 PM »
The '9"... one have a point nine while the other one have a round nine....
Not sure if I express it like this makes sense or not.

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2011, 01:13:40 PM »
I also think that the 1 is different, but do not how to describe it in English.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »
Xu Hong uses the same stock photos but on page 4 of this topic there's a good pic with the difference such as the LS, SD, Big shoulders, and Round Shoulders etc..etc...

Thats very true, Xu uses stock photo so you're really not guaranteed to receive the exact coin shown. Xu himself probably does not know there is a difference. He does have two different prices for each item but it seems he made it $10 cheaper because of toning not because of the variety.

exchange

Offline mrslick32

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2011, 08:39:13 PM »
Thats very true, Xu uses stock photo so you're really not guaranteed to receive the exact coin shown. Xu himself probably does not know there is a difference. He does have two different prices for each item but it seems he made it $10 cheaper because of toning not because of the variety.

exchange

Exchange, thank you for posting the pics on the 1996 pandas. I have a rounded shoulder 1996 panda. I immediately looked at it when I saw the posts about it.

I agree that Xu may not know the difference in the varieties for the 1996 1/2 oz pandas at this time. I remember him selling the 1995 LD and SD at almost the same price. That may have been when Exchange bought them. Once it became know that the SD was more scarce, that's the time when Xu raised the price to over $100 for one coin but it still sold before I had the chance to buy it.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2011, 06:58:03 PM »
Here is a picture of both of my 1996 sheets of ten Shenyang and Shenzhen 1/2 ounce silver pandas. There may very well be a difference in variety but I do not keep them with me. I also keep records of everything I have. The pictures are high resolutions, maybe a member may notice something.

exchange

If you upload those photos to Coin Compendium, we can annotate the differences we find. I don't see a type for the 1996 1/2 oz silver panda entered yet, so you can either create it, or just upload your photos under the main panda type (CCT30) and we can sort it out later.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2011, 08:32:05 PM »
If you upload those photos to Coin Compendium, we can annotate the differences we find. I don't see a type for the 1996 1/2 oz silver panda entered yet, so you can either create it, or just upload your photos under the main panda type (CCT30) and we can sort it out later.

Will do.

sincerely,
exchange

Offline PandaOrLunar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 28
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2011, 08:43:26 PM »
Exchange, thank you for posting the pics on the 1996 pandas. I have a rounded shoulder 1996 panda. I immediately looked at it when I saw the posts about it.

I agree that Xu may not know the difference in the varieties for the 1996 1/2 oz pandas at this time. I remember him selling the 1995 LD and SD at almost the same price. That may have been when Exchange bought them. Once it became know that the SD was more scarce, that's the time when Xu raised the price to over $100 for one coin but it still sold before I had the chance to buy it.


Xu know the 1996 1/2 oz difference.

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2011, 09:20:32 PM »
Please can some kind soul please point out in the picture regarding the shoulder difference. Cause I just can't tell

Offline heyimderrick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: 3
  • Gender: Male
    • Trading Reputation
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2011, 01:55:03 PM »
Sorry for the noob question, but what would be a good price to pay for each year (double sealed)?

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2011, 01:57:22 PM »
Please can some kind soul please point out in the picture regarding the shoulder difference. Cause I just can't tell

Round shoulder as oppose to pointy shoulder.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3626.45

exchange

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2011, 10:43:38 AM »
1995 panda 1/2oz silver coin Shenyang mint coin in mint sealed, sold within minutes of it been listed, $220.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-panda-1-2oz-silver-coin-Shenyang-mint-coin-mint-sealed-/370569337532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5647a75abc#ht_1399wt_956


exchange

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2011, 11:04:25 AM »
The 1995 1/2 oz small date is the hardest to find.  Which other year of 1/2 oz silver panda would you recommend buying?  1993, 94, 95LD, 98?........

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2011, 11:15:30 AM »
The 1995 1/2 oz small date is the hardest to find.  Which other year of 1/2 oz silver panda would you recommend buying?  1993, 94, 95LD, 98?........

1998 by far. Take away Xu and there are more 1995 1/2 oz Shenyang SD available (although graded) on ebay than 1998.
In the last 9 months, aside form Xu, I may have seen on ebay no more than five 1998 1/2 oz.


exchange

Offline XiongMao_Ag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 1
Varieties of 1/2 ounce 1995 silver panda, Shenyang mint??
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2011, 12:50:17 AM »
Hi,

Is anyone familiar with varieties of the 1995 1/2 oz silver small date panda? I recently found three 1995 1/2 small date coins that appear to be all different versions. Please see the three pictures below.

Picture 1: the panda's hind leg is longer than usual (less frosting on the panda's hip), and the panda's belly touches the tree branch
Picture 2: Shorter hind leg; there is a mirrored gap between the panda's belly and the tree branch
Picture 3: Shorter hind leg; no mirror gap between the panda's belly and the branch

To the coin and panda experts here: what do you think caused these differences, and are they legitimate varieties?

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
  • Karma: 77
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2011, 01:25:43 AM »
Very good observations. There seem to be some other differences, too. These look like 3 different varieties to me.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline XiongMao_Ag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2011, 08:57:04 AM »
Now that you mention it, the eyes and ears look a little different in the pictures, although I can't tell for sure...maybe it's just the lighting.

Actually, I think Poconopenn was the first to point out the hind leg difference shown in Picture #1.

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2011, 09:52:57 AM »
If only there were some system that could highlight and zoom in on the differences among multiple coins to make comparisons easy...

Couldn't help myself :)

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2011, 10:07:53 PM »
Hah, I think that was meant for me :) I'm working on it!

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #81 on: December 22, 2011, 10:09:55 PM »
Very good observations. There seem to be some other differences, too. These look like 3 different varieties to me.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

I agree, these look like 3 different varieties. They're all the small dates? Do you have photos of the temple sides of the coins too?

Offline XiongMao_Ag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2011, 11:32:23 PM »
Yes, these are all small dates; the right arm of the panda on the small date version is dark and without frosting (unlike on the large date version). I'll try to post pictures of the temple sides in a few days.

Offline XiongMao_Ag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2011, 12:04:58 AM »
Hi,
I was able to get a few photos of the temple sides. The first, second, and third photos below correspond to the respective pictures in the previous posting.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2012, 05:04:49 PM »

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2012, 01:39:30 PM »
WOW!!! :w00t:

1010 views with 3 days left!!!

Did I miss a memo?

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2012, 08:16:26 PM »
Apmex has the 1993-1998 China Panda 5 Yuan Silver 6 Coin Set for an introductory price of $900  :001_smile: and they are not even double sealed.

http://www.apmex.com/Product/67226/1993_1998_China_Panda_5_Yuan_Silver_6_Coin_Set.aspx


exchange

Offline fishball

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandawiki™
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2012, 08:37:57 PM »
Apmex has the 1993-1998 China Panda 5 Yuan Silver 6 Coin Set for an introductory price of $900  :001_smile: and they are not even double sealed.

http://www.apmex.com/Product/67226/1993_1998_China_Panda_5_Yuan_Silver_6_Coin_Set.aspx


exchange

APMEX description has this "Only 90 collections issued by the Royal Mint!" in there... LOL?

What a ripoff price, doesn't Xu Hong still have the full set for sale at $600 US?

Currently looking for MS69 1oz Silver Pandas - feel free to PM me.
Also buying 1997 Hong Kong $1000 Gold Coin BOX + COA - please PM thank you.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2012, 08:48:11 PM »
APMEX description has this "Only 90 collections issued by the Royal Mint!" in there... LOL?

What a ripoff price, doesn't Xu Hong still have the full set for sale at $600 US?

Yes, Xu has them for $540.

exchange

Offline SilverNut

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2012, 04:54:08 AM »
Hi all,

I share fellow members' view that half ounces silver pandas are relatively undervalued compared to their 1 ounces peers. Hence, i recently acquired some. For the 1996 pandas, i note that it was only produced by 2 mints. However, my coins seem to indicate 1 more difference other than 'round' and 'pointy' shoulders. Appreciate if fellow members could take a look at the attached photos  and give your views, please. Thanks.







[/img] 

Offline goldpig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 2
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2012, 03:28:28 AM »
The leaves ( on the tree to the left side) are also a bit different on each coin.

Offline fractalfate

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2012, 04:34:55 PM »
Here's the NGC population numbers as of today (MS68/69/70/total graded):
1993    33/154/8/212
1994    49/117/5/192
1995    10/54/1/71
1995sd 36/31/0/94
1995ld 32/68/1/162
1996    98/187/1/340
1997    68/252/0/333
1998    36/68/0/111
All have incredibly small graded populations if you think about it. 1995sd appears to have lowest MS69 population of the Tao. However there are a total of 327 1995 dated submissions. How many of the 71 total and 54 MS69 1995 unclassifieds are actually small dates? How many of the unclassifieds have already been re-submitted for mint designations? With only 111 total submissions, is 1998 the key date?

Offline fractalfate

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2012, 04:54:51 PM »
Has anyone heard of a 'Macau' variant of the 1997 S5Y Panda? There was one listed on rarecoincollector.net some time back; they claimed it was a rare variety. It was graded as a PF69 by NGC. I believe it sold for in the neighborhood of $700! I have one also graded by NGC as PF69. See link for pictures:
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=2309224-030
(notice how NGC describes the coin as a 1992 G100Y MS69???)
I have another NGC MS69. See link for pictures:
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3141388-045
Honestly, I don't see much difference between the two coins. Also see below link below for previous discussion of this topic:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1763.0

Offline fractalfate

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2012, 05:24:46 PM »
Looks like if one were so inclined, one could acquire a complete S5Y MS69 set (minus the expo coins) for less than $1000 right now on eBay. I think that is a screamin' deal--you just know these are going to be smoking hot at some point. Someone better swoop these up, or I just might...

Offline Obsidian

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Karma: 32
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2012, 06:39:52 PM »
Here's the NGC population numbers as of today (MS68/69/70/total graded):
1993    33/154/8/212
1994    49/117/5/192
1995    10/54/1/71
1995sd 36/31/0/94
1995ld 32/68/1/162
1996    98/187/1/340
1997    68/252/0/333
1998    36/68/0/111
All have incredibly small graded populations if you think about it. 1995sd appears to have lowest MS69 population of the Tao. However there are a total of 327 1995 dated submissions. How many of the 71 total and 54 MS69 1995 unclassifieds are actually small dates? How many of the unclassifieds have already been re-submitted for mint designations? With only 111 total submissions, is 1998 the key date?

One thing to consider with presumed key dates.  Once they become the presumed key dates they inevitably end up with more coins graded.  More people chase them and more dealers try to grade them for sale.  Once the market matures and more coins of all years get graded it will be easier to see which is the key.  Obviously because of the obvious date variety of the 1995 it will be a good performer as time goes on.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2012, 12:58:39 AM »
Price Guide for PCGS graded 1/2 oz silver panda. There are small and large date versions for 1993 and 1994, according to this Guide.

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?MS=1&PR=1&tabs=no&c=3783&title=5+Yuan


Offline fractalfate

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2012, 10:29:38 PM »
One month later, lets see what's happened to the population numbers:
1993    33/154/8/212 --> 36/163/11/228
1994    49/117/5/192 --> 52/124/5/203
1995    10/54/1/71   --> 10/54/1/71
1995sd 36/31/0/94    --> 54/38/0/125
1995ld 32/68/1/162   --> 36/82/2/180
1996    98/187/1/340 --> 99/192/1/346
1997    68/252/0/333 --> 74/263/0/352
1998    36/68/0/111  --> 42/76/0/127
Still think 1998 is not the key date?

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2012, 10:47:19 PM »
Very interesting gasman......

More slabs for collections, and feebay..

Thanks for the post.... :thumbup1:

Offline BChung

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Karma: 17
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2012, 11:03:47 PM »
One month later, lets see what's happened to the population numbers:
1993    33/154/8/212 --> 36/163/11/228
1994    49/117/5/192 --> 52/124/5/203
1995    10/54/1/71   --> 10/54/1/71
1995sd 36/31/0/94    --> 54/38/0/125
1995ld 32/68/1/162   --> 36/82/2/180
1996    98/187/1/340 --> 99/192/1/346
1997    68/252/0/333 --> 74/263/0/352
1998    36/68/0/111  --> 42/76/0/127
Still think 1998 is not the key date?


Agreed 1998 is the Key date, not because of the Pop report but it simply the hardest to get 1/2 oz out there, whether on Ebay, TaoBao or the shops I visit occassionaly. The ones available are very expensive. I have heard rumors because there is news the actual mintage is just 30000.  

I am having a hard time finding one that available for Sale below USD 200. I just bid one off ebay for around USD 170 including shipping and the seller is from Germany - that may also kept some people away, because of the shipping problems buyers experience with EURO Customs.

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2012, 11:09:18 PM »
That gives it some new perspective, baby.

Like you, I visit a few sites, and havn't seen any for awhile now, either.

Only been 3 slabbed ones on the block so far this year.

Feb 24, 2012  NGC   MS69   $275.00  EBAY  (US)

Feb 22, 2012  PCGS  MS69   $265.95  EBAY  (U.K.)

Jan 21, 2012  NGC   MS68   $80.00   EBAY  (US)


« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 11:16:18 PM by wyldkatt »

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2012, 06:06:31 AM »
There are 7 sightings on the CC, and one of them was only a little more than a month ago:

CCT420: 1998 1/2 oz silver panda

5 specimens are recorded, including one in a 70 grade. Oh, how I do love 70 grades...

Offline fishball

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandawiki™
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2012, 07:28:21 AM »
There are 7 sightings on the CC, and one of them was only a little more than a month ago:

CCT420: 1998 1/2 oz silver panda

5 specimens are recorded, including one in a 70 grade. Oh, how I do love 70 grades...

Badon,

200735673714 is Hong Kong expo 98, not the normal 98 Panda.

190659339995 is a sighting that doesn't seem to be on the CC and could be added.

Currently looking for MS69 1oz Silver Pandas - feel free to PM me.
Also buying 1997 Hong Kong $1000 Gold Coin BOX + COA - please PM thank you.

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2012, 08:26:35 PM »
Lots of great work there on the CC badon.
I need more practice at it, but the potentials look fantastic!

Kudos to all who've contributed.

It should be around for many years, and for several generations,
of both collectors, and fanatics :thumbup:

Write ups are something major I noticed that was light.
Will those be like wiki's, that others may edit?

Was a little curious about that.

Good job though, badon.
Well done.

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2012, 10:25:26 PM »
why certainly badon.
what does getting one entail?

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2012, 10:33:37 PM »
Welcome to the Coin Compendium, wyldkatt! That was easy, eh?

Offline wyldkatt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2012, 10:44:08 PM »
My humble thanks, badon :thumbup1:

Offline fishball

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 100
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandawiki™
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #107 on: May 12, 2012, 12:33:14 AM »

Currently looking for MS69 1oz Silver Pandas - feel free to PM me.
Also buying 1997 Hong Kong $1000 Gold Coin BOX + COA - please PM thank you.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #108 on: May 12, 2012, 12:59:55 AM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360455786429

1/2oz are so hot :P

This is a small date.  NGC misgraded this coin as large date.

Offline shibaji

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #109 on: May 12, 2012, 02:19:24 AM »
Problem is the e_coins uses stock photos. So, the hopeful buyer may get a nasty surprise :-)

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2012, 02:46:04 AM »
I have noticed that some sellers that use stock photos will deliberately choose a mislabeled coin as their stock photo. It is against eBay rules to use stock photos, if I remember correctly.

Offline exchange

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
  • Karma: 20

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #112 on: July 09, 2012, 01:07:47 PM »
Why is it there seems to be no information on the 1996 Beijing International Coin Expo 1/2 oz coin on CC or Pricepedia?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1996-Beijing-Coin-Expo-Silver-Medal-NGC-PF69-/160796348899?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item25703591e3

According to this information this was the first Beijing Expo (1/2 oz) produced.

http://shop.jibi.net/dispbbs.asp?boardid=25&Id=7116

Does anyone have any idea what current markey valuation might be for these 1/2 oz coins?

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
  • Karma: 77
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #113 on: July 09, 2012, 04:13:59 PM »
Why is it there seems to be no information on the 1996 Beijing International Coin Expo 1/2 oz coin on CC or Pricepedia?

It's a very nice medal, but it's not a Panda coin (there is one for that same show) and hasn't been a high priority item to add to the Pricepedia. Pricepedia tries to focus on the most popular coins and medals, but I'll add anything that catches my interest, too. For instance, check out the new column on Chinese paper money by Adam Biagi of Pacifica Tading Co. in the July issue (which gets sent out later today).

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #114 on: July 09, 2012, 05:03:06 PM »
Thank you Peter, the more I know the more I find out how little I know.  ;)
A couple of points of interest on this coin.
Total NGC Graded: 7... 2/67, 2/68 & 3/69 with a mintage limit of 9600.
I wonder how many are really remaining?

Offline fractalfate

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2012, 08:22:40 PM »
Current NGC population numbers (six months later) (68/69/70/total):
1993    33/154/8/212 --> 36/163/11/228 --> 44/214/23/303
1994    49/117/5/192 --> 52/124/5/203 --> 70/156/10/262
1995    10/54/1/71   --> unchanged --> unchanged
1995sd 36/31/0/94    --> 54/38/0/125 --> 108/80/0/227
1995ld 32/68/1/162   --> 36/82/2/180 --> 70/168/7/323
1996    98/187/1/340 --> 99/192/1/346 --> 124/217/1/405
1997    68/252/0/333 --> 74/263/0/352 --> 84/314/0/415
1998    36/68/0/111  --> 42/76/0/127 --> 61/115/1/192
Pretty large increase in submissions overall. 1998 now officially has least submissions. MS69 1995sd still highest grade rarity.

Offline heyimderrick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: 3
  • Gender: Male
    • Trading Reputation
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2012, 10:19:58 PM »
Current NGC population numbers (six months later) (68/69/70/total):
1993    33/154/8/212 --> 36/163/11/228 --> 44/214/23/303
1994    49/117/5/192 --> 52/124/5/203 --> 70/156/10/262
1995    10/54/1/71   --> unchanged --> unchanged
1995sd 36/31/0/94    --> 54/38/0/125 --> 108/80/0/227
1995ld 32/68/1/162   --> 36/82/2/180 --> 70/168/7/323
1996    98/187/1/340 --> 99/192/1/346 --> 124/217/1/405
1997    68/252/0/333 --> 74/263/0/352 --> 84/314/0/415
1998    36/68/0/111  --> 42/76/0/127 --> 61/115/1/192
Pretty large increase in submissions overall. 1998 now officially has least submissions. MS69 1995sd still highest grade rarity.

Just got back 12 I sent in for grading. Some 1996s and 1997 HK Expo, tough grades. The 1996 in particular did not grade well. All were in OMP from an intact mint sheet, so I was a bit bummed. But, the good news is I have been getting a lot more interest in the 1/2 oz. pandas and have sold a good portion of the ones I bought to flip.

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2012, 10:40:36 PM »
Thank you Peter, the more I know the more I find out how little I know.  ;)
A couple of points of interest on this coin.
Total NGC Graded: 7... 2/67, 2/68 & 3/69 with a mintage limit of 9600.
I wonder how many are really remaining?

The 96 Beijing International Expo 1/2 oz is new and has low NGC numbers like you stated.  One is pictured on the CC.  I doubt it has been researched yet as it is not popular but time will tell.........

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2012, 11:33:06 PM »
The 96 Beijing International Expo 1/2 oz is new and has low NGC numbers like you stated.  One is pictured on the CC.  I doubt it has been researched yet as it is not popular but time will tell.........

http://shop.jibi.net/dispbbs.asp?boardid=25&Id=7116

Partial translation:
Quote
The first Beijing International Coin Fair "was held in Beijing in November 1996, a specially made ​​by the Shanghai Mint Silver medals; material sterling silver, weighs 1/2 ounces, 33 mm in diameter; the front side of the Expo logo for monogram upper right side of "96" digital gold flakes embedded in the surface of the silver medal, the formation of surface color effects (Note: This local surface-mount another new technology of the metal in the metal medal the first of its kind in the country); the back of the pattern of the domestic issue of some metal circulation coins, commemorative coins pattern into currency chapter map "great coin artistic characteristics. 9611 limited edition medal finishing in a numbered (0002450), volumes of fine card, the original card packaging (Note: Silver Chapter edge of the tooth compared with natural oxidation does not affect the overall ornamental).

NGC Census Detail shows 2/67, 2/68 & 3/69
3616305-014/016 are the 69's, 3616305-013 is a 68


Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2012, 11:46:14 PM »
So it is the first 1/2 oz silver Beijing International Expo coin.  That and low planned mintage of 9600 has got to be a plus.  Wonder what actual mintage is?  Does Mr Ge have it in his new book?  I call it the Nike coin for obvious reasons.  Nice MCC to own and maybe a good one to buy........

Offline Obsidian

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Karma: 32
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #120 on: December 11, 2012, 11:59:12 PM »
Pretty large increase in submissions overall. 1998 now officially has least submissions. MS69 1995sd still highest grade rarity.

Yea 1998 has been the toughest to find.  I bought and graded a sheet of them earlier this year.  I tried to sell a few extras on eBay but they weren't bringing nearly as much as the 1995 SD so I decided to hold off selling them.

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2012, 12:27:07 PM »
I just finished my collection of 1/2 oz pandas. In total 9 coins :)

And yeah, I'm Bryan from Malaysia and I'm 18. Just started collecting not long ago.


1993 by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1994 by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1995 LD by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1995 SD by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1996 by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1997 by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1997 HK Expo by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1998 by Bryan Teh, on Flickr


1998 HK Expo by Bryan Teh, on Flickr

Offline dynamike51

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 709
  • Karma: 39
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2012, 12:37:41 PM »

I just finished my collection of 1/2 oz pandas. In total 9 coins :)

And yeah, I'm Bryan from Malaysia and I'm 18. Just started collecting not long ago.
 

Congratulations on your beautiful set, Bryan. Nice job !!    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
18 yrs old and you are collecting MCC?   You are ahead of your class!  Nice set............

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2012, 02:40:28 PM »
Aww thanks guys!

I was just wondering, I currently have 2 coins in my possession in OMP that have some flaws ( head rub and another coin with some dirt at the back)

Any suggestion on what to do?
If i sell it, I'll be taking quite a big loss. If I don't, I'll have to hope I break even or gain a little selling it in the future.

So what would you guys do and why?

Much appreciated,
Bryan.

Offline dynamike51

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 709
  • Karma: 39
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2012, 02:42:16 PM »
Aww thanks guys!

I was just wondering, I currently have 2 coins in my possession in OMP that have some flaws ( head rub and another coin with some dirt at the back)

Any suggestion on what to do?
If i sell it, I'll be taking quite a big loss. If I don't, I'll have to hope I break even or gain a little selling it in the future.

So what would you guys do and why?

Much appreciated,
Bryan.

You are 18? ...... keep them until you're 58, or 68.    :lol:

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2012, 02:46:04 PM »
Haha, as much as I want to, both of the coins are 1994. One of them is the 1oz 1994 SD Ag Panda and another is the 1994 1/2 oz.

1994 is so called my most ' valuable ' year as it's my birth year so I'm still really open to opinions on what would be the best to be done.

Offline r3globe

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 20
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #127 on: December 12, 2012, 03:46:22 PM »
Haha, as much as I want to, both of the coins are 1994. One of them is the 1oz 1994 SD Ag Panda and another is the 1994 1/2 oz.

1994 is so called my most ' valuable ' year as it's my birth year so I'm still really open to opinions on what would be the best to be done.


Congrats on the nice collection. My short advice is keep it in OMP.

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #128 on: December 12, 2012, 05:19:41 PM »
Can you send the 2 flawed pandas into NCS for conservation and maybe grading ?  If you are not a member, maybe someone that is a member of NGC can ship them for you. ...........               

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #129 on: December 12, 2012, 08:23:12 PM »
I can send them for conservation and grading but it'll cost quite a lot and the exchange rate will kill me. Not only that, so will the GST tax, shipping and insurance. I also am quite sure it'll score below MS69, maybe MS67 or 66 for the head rub. As for the 1/2 oz with some dirt , that I think can be easily removed with NCS.

So I'm in a dilemma here :/

Your opinions will be much appreciated.

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #130 on: December 12, 2012, 08:24:33 PM »
Congrats on the nice collection. My short advice is keep it in OMP.
Thanks! So it'll be best to just leave it as it is? May I know why?

Offline dragonfan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #131 on: December 13, 2012, 04:52:14 AM »
Aww thanks guys!

I was just wondering, I currently have 2 coins in my possession in OMP that have some flaws ( head rub and another coin with some dirt at the back)

Any suggestion on what to do?
If i sell it, I'll be taking quite a big loss. If I don't, I'll have to hope I break even or gain a little selling it in the future.

So what would you guys do and why?

Much appreciated,
Bryan.
Your year of the Dog coin is now 18 yo, in good and stable condition, in original packaging from the mint! As a young collector, your door is still wide open for the future, for free!

Offline smokymcpot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2012, 05:54:41 AM »
Your year of the Dog coin is now 18 yo, in good and stable condition, in original packaging from the mint! As a young collector, your door is still wide open for the future, for free!
Oh okaay, its panda btw. Haha. So just let it be then?

Offline dragonfan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: 3
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #133 on: December 13, 2012, 07:38:34 AM »
From my personal perspective, I was, I am and will be always biased towards MCC in OMP, no doubt about it! The passionnate collector on me is only attracted by original items from the source, even with flaws.
Others may have different points of view and needs, I think we must accept this fact to be able to promote our.  More tools, informations and experts are now available to help collectors to take their own decisions for their best interests, education; a big step!
The slow camp could be an option, too, for a young collector like you. Good luck!

Offline silverstar1

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #134 on: December 13, 2012, 08:29:21 PM »
Does anyone here know if there if there is a large and small date variety for the 1998 1/2 oz panda , I had heard that but I just can not find enough to compare.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #135 on: October 11, 2013, 04:04:11 AM »

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #136 on: October 11, 2013, 04:12:59 AM »
Is this a known variety?

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2782594-020


Hi,

Is anyone familiar with varieties of the 1995 1/2 oz silver small date panda? I recently found three 1995 1/2 small date coins that appear to be all different versions. Please see the three pictures below.

Picture 1: the panda's hind leg is longer than usual (less frosting on the panda's hip), and the panda's belly touches the tree branch
Picture 2: Shorter hind leg; there is a mirrored gap between the panda's belly and the tree branch
Picture 3: Shorter hind leg; no mirror gap between the panda's belly and the branch

To the coin and panda experts here: what do you think caused these differences, and are they legitimate varieties?



Offline davidt3251

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #137 on: October 11, 2013, 03:04:08 PM »
Its the same gap as in as NGC# 3682500-002.

I haven't done an extensive analysis, but the coins without the gap (Picture 3, filled in frosting) seem more prevalent. I haven't seen many of Picture 1, have seen a few Picture 2.

Gilmore's coin is unique, on the lower bottom right of the trunk, the last leaf on the right (before the rim) touches on every 1995 SD 1/2 I have seen, but I have only reviewed a few dozen.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #138 on: October 11, 2013, 11:01:37 PM »
Comparing this coin to variety no. 2 and NGC #3682500-002, I think the gap between the panda's belly and the branch is not the same. The gap is much wider in the coin I posted and the branch is considerably thinner. Additionally, there is excess frosting under the panda's head and on the leaves on the bottom left (all leaves are connected).

Is this a 4th variety?

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2013, 10:14:53 AM »
Can you post photos of all 4 varieties?......

Offline NumiKat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: 7
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #140 on: October 13, 2013, 07:24:15 PM »
The one in Gilmore's picture is not a Small Date--it is a Large Date 1/2 ounce panda minted by Shanghai mint. This variety is not seen very often. I posted about it back in May 2012:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5699.0

Actually, since I made that post, I've found that there is also a 3rd large date variety, about equally as rare as the variety in Gilmore's picture. With some patience, I have been able to acquire all three 1995 Large Date varieties. I've put together collages of the three Large Date varieties, along with a Small Date for comparison. In the pictures, A is the usual (most common) LD variety; B is Gilmore's LD variety; and C is a third LD variety.

I've found the following differences among the three LD varieties:

1. In the usual Variety (A), there is a concave groove or indentation running from behind the panda's ear partway down the back of its neck. On B and C, the back of the panda's neck is convex, and there is no concave groove.

2. In Variety A, the line at the top of the Yuan symbol is "broken": it has a notch about halfway through the bar. It's not easy to see this in pictures, but it's obvious with the coin in hand. This notch is present on every specimen of Type A I have seen. Neither B nor C have this notch.

3. The center of the leaf cluster within the rectangle is open (mirrored) in Varieties A and B, but it is frosted in Variety C.

4. In A, the panda's chest area, indicated by the arrow, is connected to the main tree branch with a white bar. It looks like the designer of the coin may have intended for this to be a smaller twig, since this bar is textured like bark. On Variety B, the white area connecting the panda's chest to the branch does not have a bark-like texture. In C, the panda's chest area is connected to the tree branch by a sharp point, and this area also lacks a bark-like texture. C also has a noticeable bump on the frosting on the panda's chest area, below the left side of its chin. The difference in textures suggests that the design was changed for some reason, perhaps because the twig did not look natural.

5. In variety A, there is a small gap between the panda's belly and the branch. But as Gilmore pointed out, the gap is much larger in B and C. In B and C, the tree branch is bent and thinner in this area, and the panda seems "fatter" since its belly extends to the toes of its back leg more so than in A.

6. Perhaps the most obvious difference is in the leaves below the branch near the panda's bottom foot. In A, the leaves extend behind the branch, but in B and C they are in front of the branch.

7. Differences #1 and #6 suggest an interesting possible connection between Shanghai Varieties B and C and the Shenyang Small Date. As in B and C, the small date has leaves extending in front of the branch (#6), and the back of the panda's neck is convex (#1). Variety A is different in both of these respects.

From what I can tell, Varieties B and C seem to be less common than the usual variety A. Neither one appears in Peter's new book. As a rough guess, I'd estimate that there are only a few dozen NGC specimens of B and C combined, in all grades, out of maybe around 600 LDs total. But I haven't done a comprehensive examination of the NGC certification #s. Perhaps SANDAC or someone else could help with that...  :001_unsure:

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #141 on: October 13, 2013, 08:39:58 PM »
Discussion on 95 S5Y varieties at Baoquan: http://bbs.bqcoin.com/read-htm-tid-1948.html

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #142 on: October 13, 2013, 09:40:21 PM »
I can confirm LD var-B as in 2759267-001 to -010 and 2782594-020.  I can also see LD var-C such as 3162227-089 and 3559116-007.  They are pretty hard to find, but the 1995 S5Y panda population is dominated by large submission, presumably dealers bought sheets of them and submit them en masse.  The rarity maybe biased by a common source for many large dealers.  Var B and C tend to be small size submission.  It is a lot of data to plow through and I'm not even done with ms68, but my feeling is that combined B+C is about 1 in 20.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #143 on: October 13, 2013, 10:41:40 PM »
Hi,

There are three varieties of 1995 Small Date 1/2 oz. and two of Large date that will be in the books. I need to compare your photos to what I have already found. Thanks!

Best wishes,
Peter

Was this covered somewhere in the new book?

Offline davidt3251

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #144 on: October 13, 2013, 11:32:03 PM »
These are two of my submissions of 1995 S5Y SD. One has no tummy gap (frosted between tummy and log), one has mirrored tummy gap.

Offline SilverNut

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2013, 09:42:00 AM »
Hey Numikat,

Thanks very much for your generous sharing. I just checked the onne raw 1/2 oz 1995 silver panda i have on hand and it looks like large date C. Can't wait to check my other 1995s kept elsewhere :)




Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #146 on: October 14, 2013, 11:45:19 AM »
NumiKat,
Thank you for the detailed and clear explanation. Your effort is much appreciated. +1

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2013, 06:15:22 PM »
NumiKat,
Thank you for the detailed and clear explanation. Your effort is much appreciated. +1

+2  N48

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2013, 09:23:00 PM »
Is there a population estimate for the 95 1/2 oz mirror tummy vs frosted tummy?.......

Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #149 on: October 14, 2013, 10:56:38 PM »
Discussion on China silver Panda varieties at Baoquan, please see the Page 3.

http://bbs.bqcoin.com/read-htm-tid-2772.html

Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2013, 12:53:10 AM »
Discussion on China silver Panda varieties at Baoquan, please see the Page 3.

http://bbs.bqcoin.com/read-htm-tid-2772.html


Page 1: 本部分内容设定了隐藏,需要回复后才能看到

You must post to see.
Anyone have an account?
Edit: Creating one but am stumped at: 注册原因
What are they asking for?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 01:14:54 AM by NBM »

Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2013, 01:19:48 AM »
please see the page 3.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2013, 01:46:36 AM »
Thank you radderlee, I have seen page 3.
I would like to read and learn more and have created an account.
Waiting for admin approval to post now.

Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2013, 01:55:07 AM »
Hi NBM,

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Li

Thank you radderlee, I have seen page 3.
I would like to read and learn more and have created an account.
Waiting for admin approval to post now.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2013, 02:01:58 AM »
Thank you Li.  N48
I will send you personal message so we don't side track this any further.

Offline chukuang108

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #156 on: October 15, 2013, 03:05:36 AM »
In 1995 1/2 ounces of panda coins, is a more complex varieties。
There are 4 versions in SD (shenyang)
Also have 4 versions in LD (shanghai)
My writing In Baoquan Forum is not perfect, because there will be continuously found. If you want to know more, can give me a message. Very happy to discuss with you。575890703@qq.com


Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #157 on: October 15, 2013, 03:07:57 AM »
In 1995 1/2 ounces of panda coins, is a more complex varieties。
There are 4 versions in SD (shenyang)
Also have 4 versions in LD (shanghai)
My writing In Baoquan Forum is not perfect, because there will be continuously found. If you want to know more, can give me a message. Very happy to discuss with you。575890703@qq.com



Thank you, Mr Chu !

Nice meet you in CCF.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2013, 10:10:00 AM »
I can confirm LD var-B as in 2759267-001 to -010 and 2782594-020.  I can also see LD var-C such as 3162227-089 and 3559116-007.  They are pretty hard to find, but the 1995 S5Y panda population is dominated by large submission, presumably dealers bought sheets of them and submit them en masse.  The rarity maybe biased by a common source for many large dealers.  Var B and C tend to be small size submission.  It is a lot of data to plow through and I'm not even done with ms68, but my feeling is that combined B+C is about 1 in 20.
I completed my search of 283 large date 1995 S5Y.  Of 283 coins searched, there are 38 var-B+var-C, or roughly 1 in 8.  Var-B is harder to find, there are 13 out of 38.  There are 25 var-C out of 38.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2013, 10:42:41 AM »
chukuang108,

Welcome to CCF!

I'm very interested in the current opinions in China regarding what is considered a variety.  Leaves-in-front and Leaves-behind-branch should be considered as varieties because the differences can only be achieved at the master die level.  But what about the various frosting variations and mirrored/frosted appearance?  

I attached six pictures below for your consideration.  First three are leaves-behind-branch, first is frosted, 2nd is mirrored, and 3rd is short bamboo.  The last three are leaves-in-front, first is thick fur as discussed by Gilmore, 2nd is V fur as discussed by NumiKat, 3rd is V fur with hole in leaves cluster.

Edit: The fourth picture is incorrectly attributed.  It should be NGC 2759267-004.  My apology

Offline chukuang108

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #160 on: October 15, 2013, 11:45:30 AM »
I'm very glad to meet you here.
I think, first and 2nd,they are the same template,the difference between them lies in the sandblast,one light one heavy.
So I think the same reason of fifth and sixth.
I think it is actually something fundamentally different of third and fourth .

Hi~~ I want to improve my english.
Such as biased or inadequacies, welcome exchange correction.



Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #161 on: October 15, 2013, 01:14:24 PM »
Another difference of 5 +6 is the leg length. 5 has a longer leg.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #162 on: October 15, 2013, 02:18:52 PM »
Another difference of 5 +6 is the leg length. 5 has a longer leg.

Thanks for pointing out the difference in the length of the the legs. Rear leg of "3162227-089a_V_leaf hole.jpg" seems longer than all others to me.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #163 on: October 15, 2013, 07:11:55 PM »
Here is an overlay of #6 on #5. It clearly shows the difference in the length of the legs.

Offline eurokrem

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #164 on: October 16, 2013, 03:23:22 PM »
first one are leaves behind tree;





and second one leaves in front of tree;





there are traces of mirrored part on rear leg now covered with sanded/frosted finish,
У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #165 on: October 25, 2013, 05:46:42 AM »
I learned from the ebay listing below that the 1994 coin also has a variety.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-China-Silver-Panda-coin-S5Y-NGC-MS69-Special-/151150668206?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item23314829ae

After researching past auctions on Zhaoonline it appears that this no news, but here it is anyway for those who, like me, did not know about it. The coin on the left seems to be more rare.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #166 on: October 25, 2013, 07:33:28 AM »
Price: US $666.00
Is that the going price for the rare version?

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #167 on: November 16, 2013, 08:39:39 AM »
Just finished searching through the NGC database of the 1995 panda S5Y small date, thanks to dc55232 who provided me a list of 345 NGC certification numbers.

NGC graded 456 coins. 345 were searched: 3 have no photos, 1 is a Large Date (mislabeled), 202 have gap under the panda's belly, 139 have no gap.


If you want\need the list feel free to PM me.

  

Offline radderlee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #168 on: November 16, 2013, 08:47:29 AM »
It is very useful. thanks Gilmore!

Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #169 on: November 16, 2013, 10:14:42 AM »
Here's an SD without gap with long legs.
How much there is of this?



greeting

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #170 on: November 16, 2013, 11:15:03 PM »
Hi Pandapaule,
I only searched for gap\no-gap, no other details. Just wanted to check how scarce the 'no-gap' variety is. I expected that there will be fewer of them, much less than the 40% (139 out of 345). Sorry that I don't have an answer for your question.

Gil



Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #171 on: November 17, 2013, 05:18:47 AM »
Hi Gilmore

No problem. At the moment I do not have all NGC data bask I would count myself. But I think this "long leg" is very rare. I've also seen another variant. Ear ind leg with shiny long hair.



greeting

Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #172 on: November 17, 2013, 03:00:47 PM »
I've now looked through my database. Unfortunately I have no current, so I've only 217th
Of these, 5 of the last version.
23 with long legs.

greeting

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2013, 08:17:58 PM »
PCGS now recognizes the 1995 small date Frosted Gap and Mirror gap varieties. I believe NGC will soon follow.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2013, 09:36:36 PM »
Does PCGS describe the difference between Frosted Gap and Mirror Gap somewhere on their website?  It seems to me the difference needs to be more than just gap/no-gap in Panda's belly to justify the variety designations.  Frosting/mirror field variations are so common in MCC, we'll have overwhelming number of varieties and run out of description for them very soon!

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #175 on: November 18, 2013, 09:48:08 PM »
I haven't found any descriptions on PCGS website. mook mentioned on another thread that PCGS will recognize all varieties from Peter Anthony's latest book. So more are coming...

Link: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9675.msg56599#msg56599

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #176 on: November 19, 2013, 12:37:07 AM »
I'm hoping for a collection of differentiating characteristics representing a different master dies when PCGS/NGC assigned a new variety, like the 1/20oz 2001D G20Y Panda under discussion today (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9719.msg56653#msg56653).  In that case the "snub nose" variety represents a collection of distinct characteristics (eyes, nose, mouth, and sparse bamboo) that collectively are easily differentiated from others.  If it is just one frosting/mirror field difference, I afraid we may have a spectrum of evolving die states that's difficult to differentiate.  A good example is the spectrum of differences in the shrubbery of the 1993 S10Y Peacock (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6848.msg42170#msg42170).  There are differences, no doubt, but they are too tedious to hold much interests at current stage of MCC evolution, IMO.

Offline Obsidian

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Karma: 32
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #177 on: November 22, 2013, 09:48:02 AM »
I agree SANDAC.  I see little need to start making new varieties of these coins based on small frost differences.  I think it should be major like 00 mirror / frosted or a major vAriety made by a different master die.  Like LD / SD.  Right now the collector base collecting even those major varieties is quite sparse.  And really I've always wanted to see us move away from calling the SD / LD, varieties and and get used to calling them mint differences (marks, varieties, or something else).  Anyone have any good suggestions of a name to call the overall mint "marks"? 

Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #178 on: November 24, 2013, 06:25:30 AM »
SANDAC
I understand what they mean. But I am not quite in their opinion.
The 1/2 1995 there are more than a frosted difference.
There have been other coins with 2 variants only by frosted.
Good example is "Philosophy Yin & Yang 1993 frosted"
Why should we just start to accept variants have several differences now? If the difference between frosted and mirror is very large, I think you can accept it as a variant.
Such a variant would be 1/2 1994.
1/2 in 1995 have been used 2 different stamps.
Gill for leaves in front of tree and leaves behind a tree.

greeting
Pandapaule

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #179 on: November 24, 2013, 01:12:05 PM »
I agree absolutely that 1995 1/2 LD leaves-in-front-of-tree is different die than leaves-behind-tree and should be recognized as separate varieties.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of variety studies of MCC, in particular the varieties of historical figures and invention & discovery, http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4585.0. Vast majority of them are frosting/mirror field varieties.  I just don't believe the timing is ripe for most of these frosting variations to be recognized by NGC/PCGS.

The 1993 Yin & Yang discussed by Gilmore (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5384.0) is an early example (May 1992) of variety designation that's based on frosting variation instead of different mints like the large/small date Panda.  It is a rather common frosting variation but occurred on two critical features, the yin & yang symbols.  Furthermore, the variation is distinct: the yin & yang symbol is either corrupted with frosting or not.  So I do think a variety designation by NGC is justified.  We are having more such frosting variation designation now.  Peter's book has a lot to do with it and it is a good idea to start with the panda where there are large collector base.  However, once you delved into frosting variation, you'll find most coins have many areas of differences resulting in an incredible amount of combination and permutation.  I am just worry that collectors will lost interest facing such daunting array of variations. IMO, NGC/PCGS need to carefully gauge collector interests before jump into varieties based on frosting variations.

Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #180 on: November 24, 2013, 01:30:36 PM »
I think we think the same. :thumbup1:

An example of frosting I've received today. PCGS has recognized this variant. Good for me.  :001_rolleyes:



Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #181 on: December 02, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »
I completed my search of 283 large date 1995 S5Y.  Of 283 coins searched, there are 38 var-B+var-C, or roughly 1 in 8.  Var-B is harder to find, there are 13 out of 38.  There are 25 var-C out of 38.

I would like to add to above statistics reported by SANDAC as I just finished sorting 626 1995 S5Y LD. Thanks again to dc55232 who provided me most of the NGC cert numbers.

Totally graded by NGC: 698, in my data file: 626, no photos - 11, mislabeled - 3.

Var A - 513, Var B - 31, Var C - 68

Disclosure: I own several coins of the Var A and Var C. Other varieties I discussed before (the 1994 S5Y and the 1995 SD frosted/mirror gap) I own none.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #182 on: December 02, 2013, 11:27:58 PM »
Great work!
dd55232 is far more systematic than I in NGC data collection.  I have busy summer schedule so most of my coin-related activities are in the winter months.  The net result is that my data is old.  The 1995 LD 1/2oz silver panda experienced significant population growth from 338 in Jan 5 2013 to 698 now, so my population is reflection of pre-2013 data.  What I'm getting at is this:
pre 2013 Var-B + Var-C fraction is 38/283 or 13.5%
present Var-B + Var-C fraction is 99/513 or 19.2%

So I'm seeing a rapid growth of Var-B + Var-C (the leaf-in-front) this year.  Does this mean people already selectively submitting that variety or that leaf-in-front is even more abundant than the 19.2% currently indicate?

Disclosure: I have no 1/2oz silver panda of 1994 nor 1995.

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #183 on: December 02, 2013, 11:43:40 PM »
So I'm seeing a rapid growth of Var-B + Var-C (the leaf-in-front) this year.  Does this mean people already selectively submitting that variety or that leaf-in-front is even more abundant than the 19.2% currently indicate?

We'll have to wait and see to know the real picture. Looking at Zhaoonline auctions it is obvious that Chinese collectors acknowledge the Large Date C variety with their high bids.

Var C in 69 RMB1586 - http://www.zhaoonline.com/xiongmaoxilie-yin/2396821.shtml
Var C in 70 RMB5253 - http://www.zhaoonline.com/xiongmaoxilie-yin/2416247.shtml

The Chinese collectors also bid higher for the 'tiny' frosting variation in the 1994 S5Y and the frosted\mirror gap of the 1995 S5Y SD. I don't think the last two varieties worth the double price they receive but this is just my opinion.  The Chinese collectors think otherwise  :001_rolleyes:

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #184 on: December 02, 2013, 11:46:30 PM »
Gilmore,
Another thing:  compare the ratio of MS 69+70 for the leaf-in-front to that of Var-A.  Different variety frequently have different grade distribution.

Welcome to the world of numismatic-geek!  :laugh:

Offline Gilmore

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 36
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #185 on: December 03, 2013, 12:00:58 AM »
Gilmore,
Another thing:  compare the ratio of MS 69+70 for the leaf-in-front to that of Var-A.  Different variety frequently have different grade distribution.

Welcome to the world of numismatic-geek!  :laugh:

I wish I knew how to mine for data myself. Luckily, dd55232 is very kind to provide me the data I ask for.

69's: A-262, B-24, C-58
70's: A-12, B-0, C-5

Offline PandaOrLunar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 28
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #186 on: December 03, 2013, 12:22:46 AM »
I wish I knew how to mine for data myself..

Some grading companies have implemented CAPTCHA technology which make mining a bit difficult.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #187 on: December 03, 2013, 12:47:41 AM »
I wish I knew how to mine for data myself. Luckily, dd55232 is very kind to provide me the data I ask for.

69's: A-262, B-24, C-58
70's: A-12, B-0, C-5

So percentage of MS69+70:
for var-A, it is (262+12)/513 or 53%
for var-B + var-C, it is (24+58+5)/99 or 88%

Break out var-C, it is (58+5)/68 or 93%

Remarkably different grade distribution!

Offline pandacollector66

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 1
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #188 on: December 06, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
I have found that the 1998 is the toughest to find for sale followed by the 1995 small date.  That said, I saw both for sale this week on eBay.  It's been a while since Ive seen a 1998 for sale.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #189 on: December 07, 2013, 12:46:44 AM »
There are two versions of 1998 1/2 oz silver panda.

Offline Pandapaule

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #190 on: December 07, 2013, 02:30:48 PM »
@poconopenn

Can you please show a picture of the Panda site? Are there differences?
Thank you very much

Pandapaule  N66

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #191 on: December 07, 2013, 05:43:10 PM »
There are two versions of 1998 1/2 oz silver panda.
It is hard to find.  I have to go through about 100 to find three.  The three with date shift are NGC 3235839-073 and -074 and 2775591-040.  The obverse of date-shifted panda has same range of frosting variations as the normal one.  The animated GIF below compare 2779425-011 to 3235839-073.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #192 on: December 07, 2013, 09:22:56 PM »
@poconopenn

Can you please show a picture of the Panda site? Are there differences?
Thank you very much

Pandapaule  N66

There is no difference on panda side.

Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #193 on: February 07, 2014, 06:52:59 PM »
There are two versions of 1998 1/2 oz silver panda.
There are two versions of 1998 1/2 oz silver panda.

There are two versions of 1998 1/2 oz silver panda.

Is this a shift date?

98

Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #194 on: February 07, 2014, 06:57:41 PM »
I think we think the same. :thumbup1:

An example of frosting I've received today. PCGS has recognized this variant. Good for me.  :001_rolleyes:




I have these 2 small date pandas; not sure what the variety is. Can you tell me?  Thanks.

Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2014, 07:01:07 PM »
This one too.

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2014, 08:02:45 PM »
 
Mirror gap.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2014, 08:31:18 PM »

Mirror gap.

Both 016 and 020? Thanks.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #198 on: February 08, 2014, 12:13:29 AM »

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2014, 02:15:35 PM »
Thanks for the research sandac and Poconopenn on the 98 shift date. I always thought is was a large and small date for the 98, but now I see that the date is shifted. I bought a shifted date off a German site about a year ago in the OMP.

Does anyone know if NGC will recognize this as a variety?, it seems significant to me.

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2014, 10:52:33 AM »
I have seen 1998 thick / thin branch varieties with PCGS but no "shifts"
Anybody seen this ?

Offline davidt3251

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Karma: 5
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2014, 01:07:22 AM »
Has anyone given thought to the pecking order of all S5Y Pandas, and all S5Y in Investment Grade (68-70) S5Y Pandas?

Based on NGC data, which isnt very scientific, we have:

Coin        Total # Graded # 68/69/70
97 color     166               49/92/0 (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 32/59/0, the other 68/69/70 are PF CA and PF only)
98 color     301               44/213/10  (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 37/198/10)
97 HK Expo 316               135/159/0
98 HK Expo 244               43/183/4
93             536               89/378/32
94             500              101/332/37
95 LD         700              189/415/17
95 SD        480               230/183/0
96             662               247/337/1
97             608               146/440/2
98             483               157/296/2

With only 166 graded at NGC in total, only 141 investment grade coins, and only 59 graded in PF 69 UC, the 1997 Color S5Y appears to be the key date of all S5Y Panda. Depending on whether PF or PF CA or PF UC, we can see the number of sets in 69 that can be created. Using the 1997 Colored S5Y in PF 69 UC, only 59 sets of grade 69 S5Y Pandas can be created. Based on PF+PF CA + PF UC, only 92 full S5Y Pandas can be created in 69.

Using on my own collecting experience, I think the 1997 Color S5Y is much far harder to find in PF 69 UC than the 1995 S5Y SD in 69. There are zero 1997 Color PF 69 UC for sale on ebay, but 3 1995 S5Y MS69. It is also easier to find the 1995 Micro Date in 69 with three for sale on ebay and the 2001D Small D with one on ebay)

The 1997 S5Y Color in PF 69 UC with 59 available is scarcer tham 1995 Micro (189 graded in MS 69) and even scarcer than 2001D Small D (64 graded in MS 69)

Considering the 1995 S5Y SD in 69 is about a $1200 coin, the 1995 Micro is $4000 and the 2001D Small D is $1500, what is a 1997 Color PF 69 UC worth?

Offline pandamania

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: 4
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #202 on: February 16, 2014, 04:10:49 AM »
Has anyone given thought to the pecking order of all S5Y Pandas, and all S5Y in Investment Grade (68-70) S5Y Pandas?

Based on NGC data, which isnt very scientific, we have:

Coin        Total # Graded # 68/69/70
97 color     166               49/92/0 (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 32/59/0, the other 68/69/70 are PF CA and PF only)
98 color     301               44/213/10  (note that the highest grade PF Ultra Cameo is 37/198/10)
97 HK Expo 316               135/159/0
98 HK Expo 244               43/183/4
93             536               89/378/32
94             500              101/332/37
95 LD         700              189/415/17
95 SD        480               230/183/0
96             662               247/337/1
97             608               146/440/2
98             483               157/296/2

With only 166 graded at NGC in total, only 141 investment grade coins, and only 59 graded in PF 69 UC, the 1997 Color S5Y appears to be the key date of all S5Y Panda. Depending on whether PF or PF CA or PF UC, we can see the number of sets in 69 that can be created. Using the 1997 Colored S5Y in PF 69 UC, only 59 sets of grade 69 S5Y Pandas can be created. Based on PF+PF CA + PF UC, only 92 full S5Y Pandas can be created in 69.

Using on my own collecting experience, I think the 1997 Color S5Y is much far harder to find in PF 69 UC than the 1995 S5Y SD in 69. There are zero 1997 Color PF 69 UC for sale on ebay, but 3 1995 S5Y MS69. It is also easier to find the 1995 Micro Date in 69 with three for sale on ebay and the 2001D Small D with one on ebay)

The 1997 S5Y Color in PF 69 UC with 59 available is scarcer tham 1995 Micro (189 graded in MS 69) and even scarcer than 2001D Small D (64 graded in MS 69)

Considering the 1995 S5Y SD in 69 is about a $1200 coin, the 1995 Micro is $4000 and the 2001D Small D is $1500, what is a 1997 Color PF 69 UC worth?


It is very interesting that the colored proofs continue to be relatively difficult to find. With authorized  mintages of 100,000 per issue one would normally expect that there would be substantially more coins graded and available than those with much lower mintages. However this is not the case begging the question what is the actual surviving population of these coins (they continue to be difficult to find in dealer inventories). For example, not only are the Proof 5Y coins amongst the lowest available in the most common grade (PF69) the same is true with the 10y proof coins.

In PF69 condition these are the following NGC population figures for the 10y Colored Proof Silver Pandas:

1997         88
1998        169
1999        148

The non colored proof coins have NGC graded populations of PF69 ranging from a low of 225 for the 1983 silver panda to a high of 917 for the 1990, significantly more than the supposedly plentiful colored proofs. So how many investment grade colored proof actually exist and what is the relative value of these coins?

For more discussion on the mystique of the Colored Proof Silver Pandas please see the following thread:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2145.0

Offline eurokrem

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #203 on: February 16, 2014, 06:59:31 AM »
As for nice 1oz BU Silver Panda collection no need exist to have colored coins to be happy with, it may be the same for 1/2oz BU Silver Panda, i have myself a little collection of 1/2oz and a dont chase colored ones at all and dont think that without my colection not completed is, colored ones are kind for its own collection with 1oz together if someone like those collored coins, i do not like look of them so i don't collect colored Panda and feel happy with collection of only non colored coins.  N25
У добру је лако добар бити, на муци се познају јунаци,
 Владика Петар II Петровић Његош 1813—1851

It is easy to be good while it is good, the trouble reveals the heroes.
Vladika Petar II Petrović Njegoš 1813-1851

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Karma: 26
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2014, 08:55:48 AM »
Good information David.   The once lowly panda colored proofs are much more rare then expected, especially high grades.   Most are low grade.  Due to lack of popularity in the past, they were melted or cast into the silver stack and damaged.   I noticed that today there is a large collector group for all colored MCC.   The colored MCC may have their day in the financial sun afterall...........

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #205 on: February 27, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
I need some help from the experienced guys.....
Does anyone know if the 1998 1/2oz really exists in a "Shift Date" variety or is this just a rumour?
I see no mention of this in NGC or PCGS

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #206 on: February 27, 2014, 03:02:03 PM »
I would like to know too, I even pm Peter Anthony " pandacollector" a few weeks back about the 98 1/2 Shifted date and got zero response.

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #207 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:36 PM »
Yes
I have seen the Thick / Thin Branch 1998 1/2oz varieties with PCGS
but apart from this thread...I see no other records of the "shifted Date"

Online Mirkkanen

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+48)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
  • Karma: 40
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #208 on: February 27, 2014, 03:21:35 PM »
Do you doubt the great and powerful poconopenn???  :blink:

Just because NGC doesn't acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I have nothing to offer beyond that.

The next time I'm at my safe deposit box, I'll snap a pic of my 98 1/2 oz and post it for ya'll to see. 

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #209 on: February 27, 2014, 03:26:12 PM »
Do you doubt the great and powerful poconopenn???  :blink:

Just because NGC doesn't acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I have nothing to offer beyond that.

The next time I'm at my safe deposit box, I'll snap a pic of my 98 1/2 oz and post it for ya'll to see. 

It is not a question of doubting anyone
On the contrary... I am just trying to gather information
It is just that outside this forum, I have not seen any reference to a SHIFTED DATE
It is not mentioned in Peter Anthony's book either
I see 2 coins on Ebay...are they both shifted date?
Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #210 on: February 27, 2014, 04:27:04 PM »

Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?

Please refer to previous page of this thread, page 13

It is hard to find.  I have to go through about 100 to find three.  The three with date shift are NGC 3235839-073 and -074 and 2775591-040.  
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #211 on: February 27, 2014, 04:28:47 PM »
I need some help from the experienced guys.....
Does anyone know if the 1998 1/2oz really exists in a "Shift Date" variety or is this just a rumour?
I see no mention of this in NGC or PCGS

NGC has not recognized the shift date yet.

Here are some NGC certified coins with a shifted date.

2784394-001. 002 and 003

2788068-006 and 007

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #212 on: February 27, 2014, 04:37:41 PM »
Based on this coin "Shift Date" appears to be same as what PCGS calls "Thick Branch".

Or perhaps not, as PCGS has graded many more Thick Branch than Thin Branch, yet Shift Date seems scarcer in raw and NGC.

Maybe there are more than two varieties for this coin?

Perhaps someone with a marking program can mark the "Thick Branch" PCGS refers to?

It seems somewhat odd PCGS chose to call it that, when the shifted date is so much more obvious?

Need to examine more PCGS coins.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 05:14:40 PM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #213 on: February 27, 2014, 04:42:15 PM »
Is the attached a shift date?

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #214 on: February 27, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »
Is the attached a shift date?

Yes. See comment in post above.

My guess today, based on admittedly far too few observations, is maybe PCGS is concentrating on naming the Thick Branch/ Thin Branch based on minor frosting variations, and maybe missing the far more significant die difference with Shifted Date?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 05:29:36 PM by Hippanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2604
  • Karma: 225
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #215 on: February 27, 2014, 09:33:46 PM »
The shift date definitely has a design difference from the regular date. Based on the coins I have seen, both versions have a thick branch. I have never seen a thin branch coin, except the picture in Peter’s book (page 239). It may be just frosting variations as suggested by Hippanda. Perhaps, Peter can provide us with additional information. Please post picture, if any member has PCGS graded thin branch coin.

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #216 on: February 27, 2014, 11:37:34 PM »
The shift date definitely has a design difference from the regular date. Based on the coins I have seen, both versions have a thick branch. I have never seen a thin branch coin, except the picture in Peter’s book (page 239). It may be just frosting variations as suggested by Hippanda. Perhaps, Peter can provide us with additional information. Please post picture, if any member has PCGS graded thin branch coin.

I'm thinking Thin Branch is either frosting variation, or later worn die state.

Either way, not nearly as significant as the clearly different die "Shifted Date".

"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #217 on: February 28, 2014, 01:11:26 AM »
See this map of differences in 1998 1/2 oz panda:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=10019.msg58452#msg58452

The permutation of variations are numerous, but here are a few examples for your examination:

3559391-005 example of thin branch
2776977-004 example of not-so-thin branch with different shoulder, hip, and eyes and leaves on top
3364288-001 example of not-so-thin branch different shoulder, hip, and eyes than above
2755595-006 example of thick-branch
3564332-080 example of thick-branch, different eyes, hip, and shoulder than above

As I've said before, the bimodal differentiation of thick/thin branch is misleading

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #218 on: February 28, 2014, 01:13:33 AM »
This is branch from shifted date.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #219 on: February 28, 2014, 01:15:35 AM »
This my regular date

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #220 on: February 28, 2014, 01:26:14 AM »
PandaQuest-
Could you kindly point out where you see the difference is?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #221 on: February 28, 2014, 01:48:38 AM »
Oh, I read it wrong, I thought you want me to point out the differences.  But since I've already put together an animated GIF of the 5 coins I mentioned.  Here it is.  Each coin will display for 2 seconds, fix your eye on one of the area I circled and see how they change from coin to coin.

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #222 on: February 28, 2014, 01:56:22 AM »
Nicely done.  Your animated GIFs are always valuable.

If anything, to my eyes it only reinforces the opinion that it is just different die states that are being shown.

IMO Not enough to warrant a variety.

Now the Shifted Date on the other hand is an obvious different die, and worthy of a variety.

Did PCGS blow this one?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #223 on: February 28, 2014, 02:05:28 AM »
Maybe some differences in  the ears as well.

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #224 on: February 28, 2014, 02:14:29 AM »
Yes, stronger and weaker ear strikes, and frosting variations higher and lower on the shoulder and other areas are also apparent.  But are minor varying die states and frosting progressions true varieties when weighed against features with such as date with clearly different positioning?

I think PCGS missed the obvious on this one and created a variety out of Thick/Thin Branch progression where none clearly exists: how thick is Thick?  How thin is Thin? Where does one start and the other end?
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #225 on: February 28, 2014, 02:27:45 AM »
Has anyone advised PCGS and NGC of this Date Shift and has anyone received reply ?

Offline Hippanda

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Karma: 76
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #226 on: February 28, 2014, 02:38:15 AM »
Yes Shifted Date is real, not sure if you missed this.

Once again, would refer you to page 13 of this thread.

Poconopenn did his usual splendid job of pointing it out clearly.

Here are his photos showing the difference:
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #227 on: February 28, 2014, 02:42:38 AM »
Yes Shifted Date is real, not sure if you missed this.

Once again, would refer you to page 13 of this thread.

Poconopenn did his usual splendid job of pointing it out clearly.

Here are his photos showing the difference:


Thank you.
I see the Date Shift. 
I appreciate the advice.
Just wondering what NGC & PCGS have to say about all this.  The date shift is an obvious die difference.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #228 on: February 28, 2014, 02:43:10 AM »
Yes, stronger and weaker ear strikes, and frosting variations higher and lower on the shoulder and other areas are also apparent.  But are minor varying die states and frosting progressions true varieties when weighed against features with such as date with clearly different positioning?

I think PCGS missed the obvious on this one and created a variety out of Thick/Thin Branch progression where none clearly exists: how thick is Thick?  How thin is Thin? Where does one start and the other end?

Agree.  When frosting differences do not gravitate into two or three different and distinct groups, it should not be labelled as varieties.  The date shift maybe too minor to be qualified as varieties as well, witness the "P" shift in the 1994 unicorn proof which NGC does not recognize but PCGS does. http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5974.0

That said, panda is special case and may lead the way for variety recognition.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 12
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #229 on: February 28, 2014, 09:29:27 AM »
I agree too, thick/thin branch was a mistake to make it a variety, to little difference in frosting and die states, and confusing. PCGS seems to be quick to jump on the variety train, while NGC doesn't rush into labeling varieties (it's Smart on ngc's behalf, they've learned to avoid disasters)

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #230 on: May 08, 2014, 04:04:19 AM »
Yes. See comment in post above.

My guess today, based on admittedly far too few observations, is maybe PCGS is concentrating on naming the Thick Branch/ Thin Branch based on minor frosting variations, and maybe missing the far more significant die difference with Shifted Date?

It seems that NGC still not recognizing 1998 shift date.
Isn't this coin a shift date?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231223792095&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Offline toonfan34

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #231 on: May 08, 2014, 06:58:11 PM »

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #232 on: May 09, 2014, 01:10:55 AM »
Isn't this coin a shift date?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231223792095&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Yes, I believe so.  Overlay of your 3865890-021 with a normal date 2773271-060 that was painted red.

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #233 on: May 09, 2014, 04:59:30 AM »
Yes, I believe so.  Overlay of your 3865890-021 with a normal date 2773271-060 that was painted red.

Thank you.
The picture is very clear.


Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #235 on: May 30, 2014, 05:27:49 PM »
Looking to also get these 2 1995 1/2 oz graded.  Can you tell the varieties from the pics below?  Looks like 1 small date mirrored gap and 1 large date to me.








Offline dragonzeng168

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 3

Offline Wafdawg

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 6
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #237 on: July 15, 2014, 10:37:08 PM »
Looking to also get these 2 1995 1/2 oz graded.  Can you tell the varieties from the pics below?  Looks like 1 small date mirrored gap and 1 large date to me.









Results are back.  The small date panda was a 68; frosted gap variety while the large date was a 69.

Offline zafeu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #238 on: March 26, 2015, 06:57:14 AM »
It is not a question of doubting anyone
On the contrary... I am just trying to gather information
It is just that outside this forum, I have not seen any reference to a SHIFTED DATE
It is not mentioned in Peter Anthony's book either
I see 2 coins on Ebay...are they both shifted date?
Is Shifted date more common than normal date?
Are there any statistics ?

Peter Anthony's 12-2014_China_Pricepedia mentions a 5 Y 1998 "shifted date" MS69 sold on 04-2014. Does anyone know if "shifted date" was mentioned on the certificate label of the coin?

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #239 on: March 26, 2015, 04:08:52 PM »
NGC census shows that they are still not recognizing the date shift.
I think we need to start screaming from roof-tops to get NGC to hear us.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #240 on: March 26, 2015, 04:36:35 PM »
NGC knows one language, $.
If you want them to hear you take your business to PCGS.

Offline geoxxx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #241 on: March 26, 2015, 04:47:06 PM »
I already have.
But PCGS is not recognizing "shift date" either.
They are still dreaming about "thick and thin" branches.  God knows where they came-up with that.... ????

Offline GoldenLord

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #242 on: March 27, 2015, 06:04:39 PM »
what one is rarer? i see in the USA there are alot of shift Dates and in europe the opposite.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2244
  • Karma: 118
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #243 on: September 12, 2017, 08:08:38 PM »
We've had a long discussions (60+ postings) about varieties of the 1995 1/2 oz silver panda starting from here:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3626.msg55775#msg55775

NGC now recognizes some of the varieties we discussed.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6125/1995-Silver-5Y-Panda

Offline GoldenLord

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #244 on: September 13, 2017, 12:46:17 PM »
Can someone say what is the key of this 5Y 1995 Pandas?
My Research says all have nearly the same Prices.

Online Mirkkanen

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+48)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
  • Karma: 40
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #245 on: September 13, 2017, 12:51:20 PM »
1995 and 1998 seem to bring stronger prices and they have varieties that are sought after. Those are the two years I believe are the keys.

Offline GoldenLord

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Karma: 9
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #246 on: September 13, 2017, 04:43:44 PM »
Yes, NGC grades now four different varietys of the 1995 Panda. What is the key-variety for this year?

Offline toonfan34

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #247 on: October 25, 2017, 10:30:32 AM »
I have been working with a few people at NGC to get the S5Y Varieties recognized.

In September NGC has recognized the following S5Y 1995 coins
Large Date - Short Leaves,
Large Date - Long Leaves,
Small Date - Frosted Gap
Small Date - Mirrored Gap

NGC passed on declaring the 1995 Large date Type C as a variety. I have sent them additional documentation hoping they will reconsider their decision on Type C. Stay tuned.

I have submitted a request for the 1994 S5Y Frosted and Mirror Gap varieties and hope this will be accepted by NGC in coming months

I am currently working to prepare a request for 1996  and 1998 Varieties. Stay Tuned.

This process is  rather long and will take some time to get all of the S5Y Varieties recognized



Offline toonfan34

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Re: 1/2 ounce silver pandas 1993 to 1998
« Reply #248 on: October 26, 2017, 05:13:07 PM »
I have submitted requests for the following varieties

1996 S5Y Varieties
1998 S5Y Varieties

Hope these will be accepted by NGC in coming months.